Sant Bhindranwale

[Bhajneet]

mainly these arguments were made by the Government? (could someone tell me who was in charge at that time? was it Gandhi or Singh Jee?)

The link is very helpful, thank you so much!

Very interesting information here.

So basically there is an argument between the ignorant/non-learned people against the Sikhs? Meaning, all Sikhs believe Sant Jee to NOT be a terrorist?

Good Information, Thanks a bunch sangat!

[H4RPAL]

mainly these arguments were made by the Government? (could someone tell me who was in charge at that time? was it Gandhi or Singh Jee?)

The link is very helpful, thank you so much!

Very interesting information here.

So basically there is an argument between the ignorant/non-learned people against the Sikhs? Meaning, all Sikhs believe Sant Jee to NOT be a terrorist?

Good Information, Thanks a bunch sangat!

94142[/snapback]

]

The arguments were made both by Government and biased media. At the time, Indira Ganhi was in charge, and then Rajiv Gandhi at the height of such false accusations.

Also, the argument is not limited to Sikhs vs the ignorant. Many non-sikh writers have seen the truth (A.R Darshi, Joyce Pettigrew (not sure, but I think so), and Cynthia Mahmood). On the other hand, many Sikhs too are ignorant, and thsu the line is not as claer cut as you suggested. Biased media reporting and a Government steadfast in maligning the image of a hero can do wonders to defame.

[ravindersidhu]

as much as i know

at santji's time indra gandhi's govt was banking upon the hindu vote so she wanted the akalis to compromise and give away as much water as possible to haryana and rajasthan, but santji put forth the anadpur resolutions for which the morcha stood and threatened to expose anyone who would settle for less then the resolution,

so congress and all tried their best to discredit him, this way sikhs would hate him and it would be easier for akalis to compromise

they say stuff like

mark tully in his book says "cows were butchered and their body parts were thrown into hindu temples, DAL khalsa took responsibility for this"

I don't think this could be possible

in haryana hindu's pulled out sikh passengers from busses and shved them ...clubed 8 sikhs to death... burnt a sikhs gurdwara...(these were the works of haryana CM bhajan lal he was <Edited> ta something...can't recall)

so santji said "kill those who have done this and i'll take care of the rest..." so the media said he is promoting terrorism, and is anti hindu( coz hindu militants did this in haryana)

but few questions remain unanswered to me, i hope to find them in this book the gallant defender, but so far i havn't been able to find it here in delhi

still looking...

[Bhajneet]

So Indira Ghandi was already in Charge?

So this whole thing started with her trying to destroy the Sikh population (as to not start an uprising to her short-coming dictatorship as she tried last time?)

Or does this have nothing to do with Sant Jee?

Many of you have said it was the Government and the Media, but wasn't the media under the control of the Government???

Wow, what a great democracy we have back there. . .

Or did she destroy the population so she wouldn't have to create a state called Panjaab?

And was she targetting Sant Jee primarily because many Sikhs listened to him, and if his name was slandered the Sikhs would turn away (I think i misunderstood the post from before)

[ravindersidhu]

this wasn't about destroying the sih population

it was about staying in power by by playing this political game of getting punjab waters to haryana and rajasthan and get those hindu votes, and also she said punjab could only have chandigarh if it gave abohar and fazilka to haryana, both these provinces r prosperous, this would not have been a settlement but a large compromise.

i suggest you shld read a few books about sant jarnail singh

both pro and anti

i've read some pro stuff on the internet, and i read 'The Punjab Story' and mark tully and satish Jacobs 'Amritsar: Mrs Gandhi's Last Battle'

mark tully's book sums up alot, Punjab story is a ridiculous book it has 4-5 authors 2 chapters abt operation bluestar.

the popularity of sant jarnail singh was growing in villages of punjab, and also they say he had a strong intelligence network, his men were placed in many govt departments, and his armed followers who lived in the goldentemple numbered more then 200,

now if u look in a neutral kind of way,..... no govt would allow u to have so many weapons so many gernades and machine guns with an army numbering in hundereds... not that i am anti bhindranwale, but this attack on the golden temple was becoming more and more inevitable, and only bcoz of the militants resciding in it.... the central govt didn't want this to stop coz they were waiting for it to get bad enough to send the army and kill sant bhindranwale and put and end to the figure

operation bluestar aimed at killing all militants in the golden temple, but it was so poorly planned they underestimated the militants so badly, the army thought all would surrender in 1-3 hour or so,

later an military official gave a statement to mark tully saying 'if i had such motivated men under me.... just 3 divisions' I'd take on pakistan anytime'

[Bhajneet]

Okay, now i'm really confused, because i read up a little on Operation Bluestar itself..

This is what i found out:

Iqbal Singh from UoC said:

"It is hard to conceive that 1500 weapons, some of pre-First World War vintage, could even remotely be a challenge to the world's fourth largest armed forces composed of a million soldiers, thousands of tanks, aircraft and modern artillery."

so, i mean all they really had to do was just ask right? to get the weapons out.

i know i've really strayed from the subject but this is just so intriguing that it has piqued my curiousity.

and why on earth did they pick Guru Arjan Dev Ji's day of martyrdom? i mean its easily packed to past 100k people in there..

and (i can't remember where) but it was said somewhere on the internet that the operation was planned 6 months prior to the attack on a replica of the Harmandir Sahib (though that sounds far-fetched)

and why could the Red-Cross not go in to help attend the wounded during the day of Operation Bluestar?

Now, i have realized, that i have done some research and become even more confused about the subject.

[ravindersidhu]

they did make a replica of the harmandir sahib, but it was a very poor replica, not of much use, those who had been to the replica when they entered harmandar sahib they didn't know of of any rooms and all,

the govt said sant bhindranwale was about to start a campaign to mass murder hindu's and congress MP's thats why they could not wait, but no proff was ever given in support if this, and they say they didn't know about the martyrdom day of Guru Arjan Dev Ji, when they realised they relaxed the curfew but then again put it in affect coz they wbere so confident that sant bhindranwale and his men would surrender within the first few hours of the operation,

Another thing the army made no announcement for the pilgrims to come out when they started the attack,

later they said they did make an announcement but due to the keertan nobody heard it, but if u think of it electricity had been cut of so how loud could the keertan be, and as per some accounts they made no annoucement at all coz they didn't expect santji men to givein so easily... which is more believable.

the red cross part is terrible, as khuswant singh has written one guy went to an army troop and asked for first aid for the wounded, the troop took him to his commanding officer who at the time had lined up a few sikhs and was about to order their execution, upon hearing of first aid the officer tore off the guys turban and order that he be shot, our man ran and leapt over bodies to save his life and lived to speak of it,

[CHARANDHOOR]

mainly these arguments were made by the Government? (could someone tell me who was in charge at that time? was it Gandhi or Singh Jee?)

The link is very helpful, thank you so much!

Very interesting information here.

So basically there is an argument between the ignorant/non-learned people against the Sikhs? Meaning, all Sikhs believe Sant Jee to NOT be a terrorist?

Good Information, Thanks a bunch sangat!

94142[/snapback]

]

The arguments were made both by Government and biased media. At the time, Indira Ganhi was in charge, and then Rajiv Gandhi at the height of such false accusations.

Also, the argument is not limited to Sikhs vs the ignorant. Many non-sikh writers have seen the truth (A.R Darshi, Joyce Pettigrew (not sure, but I think so), and Cynthia Mahmood). On the other hand, many Sikhs too are ignorant, and thsu the line is not as claer cut as you suggested. Biased media reporting and a Government steadfast in maligning the image of a hero can do wonders to defame.

94148[/snapback]

Those who think he was a bad guy say so as they themselves cannot comprehend he was a true saint-soldier and can only think so far to claim he was like them.

On the other hand those who live by the shabad are able to feel and therefore believe he was a true saint-soldier.

[The flying SikhMan]

WJKK

WJKF,

The problem is that many Sikhs also see him as a terrorist (thx to hindostan)

But everything he said was true. The Sikhs were and still are slaves of India. The thing was that not the whole Panth believed him, only after '84 their eyes opened. Sadly only for a few years because today many are sleeping again, really sadly.

The Khalsa Panth was fallen into a deep slumber and thx to Sant Bhindranwale many woke up.

wjkk

wjkf

[Hardip]

Sant Ji was certainly a special person. Unfortunately the Govt. labelled him otherwise. After operation bluestar and his shaeedi, the movement broke up.

I was at the Harmandir Sahib last December and I did not even see his portrait or picture in the SIkh Library - Why are we trying to cover the whole incedent ??