Slurs 'n' Simran - at 1984 June Rally

[Nama Singh]

"RAJ KAREGA... KHALSA!"

"PANTH KEE... JEET!"

"WHAT DO WE WANT... KHALISTAN!"

"WHEN DO WE WANT IT...? NOW!"

some of these "naarae" are justified and good.

BUT what i was greatly disappointed about at Sunday June 12th 2005 rally was the fact there was a "INDIRA KUTHEE... MAARO JUTHI" slur. And it was at the front... where the Panj Pyaare were walking... those Panj Pyaare who were doing "Satnam Vaheguroo" simran whilst walking. DIRECTLY behind them, u had these guys swearing and cursing.

I found this offensive. Is it just for us to call Indira Gandhi (however bad she was) a "kuthee" and other really offensive stuff? Is this the words of a True Gursikh? Would Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Gobind Singh Jee Maharaj approve of such language?

Another thing, i was not pleased about was spitting. Again ... would Guru Jee have approved of his Sikhs... his GurSikhs to do such acts like spitting on a flag? A BURNT flag? And a doll of Indira Gandhi being burnt - reminds me of witchcraft that does. Voodoo-ism.

Yes, we are hurt by the attrocities of 1984... pre 1984 and post 1984 but what good is spitting and slandering in such stupid ways gonna help? Do we really wanna raise such awareness with the media that we have to bring ourselves down to get the attention of the media?

And whilst on the topic of the flag... its amazing. The people near the front all sat down and started doing Chaupee Sahib Jee de paath and the ones at the back decided it wud be a perfect chance to start burning the flag and spit and shout out offensive slogans and slurs... whilst the paath was going on... wouldnt it have been WICKED if EVERYONE had decided to sit down and join in? Would that not have had a greater impact.

Not dissing the rally. I go every year but these things... i may be wrong, but they aint justified in my opinion. Ure thoughts are welcome...

[Kumi2]

yeah i think that was baddd but imagine if the whole sangat sat down yooooo that would loook propa boooo

lets try and do that next year

[gupt_paapi]

Shame

[Yukon_XL]

You found "INDIRA KUTHEE... MAARO JUTHI" offensive. I find that the she killed thousands of people offesive. It's too bad your feelings were hurt. Next time you grab the sign and start ripping it up and yell at people that you find it offensive(make sure you do this infront of media for max exposure)

[Nama Singh]

You found "INDIRA KUTHEE... MAARO JUTHI"  offensive. I find that the she killed thousands of people offesive. It's too bad your feelings were hurt. Next time you grab the sign and start ripping it up and yell at people that you find it offensive(make sure you do this infront of media for max exposure)

103348[/snapback]

ah so swearing whilst simran and paath is going on is justified? is that what you are saying?

That Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Gobind Singh Jee would allow His Sikhs to do this kinda stuff?

Yeh i found the swearing offensive Yukon and i found the attrocities of 1984 very offensive too and my sorrow and pain when remembering such attrocities cannot be described in words... but i think justice for these attacks is more likely to be gained by doing ardaas... by doing simran... not by burning a piece of material and spitting on it and swearing at someone whos already dead. I mean get real... where she is, she cant hear you!!! BECAUSE SHES DEAD. SHOCK. HORROR(!)

[Guest Lohgarh Singh]

wjkk wjkf

now now children lets play nicley, heheheh joke

i agree that the swearin shud not hav gon on in whilst the simran was goin on

but u also have 2 take into account, that sm jakare had "khuta" in them, ive heard a few, but they shudnt be sed whilst simran is goin on

[Nama Singh]

oh n may i also add.. there were influential kids there too. Kids who pick up language easily. They hear u saying kuthee they of course are gonna pick it up. And then people are quick to question where their kids pick up this dirty language from?

"i picked it up from that sikh event u took us to mom"

NEVER FORGET 84? how about

NEVER FORGET 05 AND TOMORROW?

[sikhlionz]

"RAJ KAREGA... KHALSA!"

"PANTH KEE... JEET!"

"WHAT DO WE WANT... KHALISTAN!"

"WHEN DO WE WANT IT...? NOW!"

some of these "naarae" are justified and good.

BUT what i was greatly disappointed about at Sunday June 12th 2005 rally was the fact there was a "INDIRA KUTHEE... MAARO JUTHI" slur. And it was at the front... where the Panj Pyaare were walking... those Panj Pyaare who were doing "Satnam Vaheguroo" simran whilst walking. DIRECTLY behind them, u had these guys swearing and cursing.

I found this offensive. Is it just for us to call Indira Gandhi (however bad she was) a "kuthee" and other really offensive stuff? Is this the words of a True Gursikh? Would Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Gobind Singh Jee Maharaj approve of such language?

Another thing, i was not pleased about was spitting. Again ... would Guru Jee have approved of his Sikhs... his GurSikhs to do such acts like spitting on a flag? A BURNT flag? And a doll of Indira Gandhi being burnt - reminds me of witchcraft that does. Voodoo-ism.

Yes, we are hurt by the attrocities of 1984... pre 1984 and post 1984 but what good is spitting and slandering in such stupid ways gonna help? Do we really wanna raise such awareness with the media that we have to bring ourselves down to get the attention of the media?

And whilst on the topic of the flag... its amazing. The people near the front all sat down and started doing Chaupee Sahib Jee de paath and the ones at the back decided it wud be a perfect chance to start burning the flag and spit and shout out offensive slogans and slurs... whilst the paath was going on... wouldnt it have been WICKED if EVERYONE had decided to sit down and join in? Would that not have had a greater impact.

Not dissing the rally. I go every year but these things... i may be wrong, but they aint justified in my opinion. Ure thoughts are welcome...

103339[/snapback]

Interesting topic...

Those saying the naarae on the megaphones said jakarae, raaj karega khalsa, khalistan naarae for 95% of the time then one singh possibly went a step too far and said the indira gandhi maro juthi or whatever it was line.

paji those naarae were in the middle not at the front or panj pyarae- unless they were being done by people at the front as well as those in the middle- anyhow anybody was more than welcome to take the megaphones and say different naarae but i didn't see anybody doing that- if any of the surrounding singhs or singhnia heard this and disagreed then they would have taken the megaphone- as the megaphones were being passed around randomly- walking on by if you see something wrong happening is not Gursikhi.

Regarding the flag burning- i think there is some chemical that the makers of indian flags add to it so that when it burns it causes people around it to go nuts :doh:

Some of the flag-burners went proper nuts beating the ashes with sticks, spitting and all sorts- all i can say is this must have been a total shock.

Sangat was so shocked and in awe that they just stood and watched

[Nama Singh]

regarding the slurs n that - it was at the front as well. RIGHT at the front. Coz i was directly behind the panj pyaare and the guy with megaphone at front was saying "INDIRA KUTHEE MAARO JUTHI" whilst the panj were doing simran. Not good. Definitely not good.

[Khalsa Fauji]

Gurfateh!!

With regards to flag degredation and spitting etc. these are not things a Gursikh should participate in. The media wants to pick out these images as we all know the media is only after bad news. It is images like this that can be damaging to the whole Panth.

Flag degredation may not be against the law in the UK, but it is extremely dangerous to cause fires in public places.

Why is it in the photos of those participating in the burning of flags and that indira model their faces have been blurred. We have established that it is not against the law, but i believe is anti Guramt and those of you do take part know it to and it is the Sangat you are afraid from.

These images shows us as being violent, intolerant, revengeful and anti social.

How are we ever going to attain justice for the victims of 84 when governments see us like this???

Sikhi does not promote revenge or intolerance, we are a peace loving society and it is that , that we strive to achieve.

Gurfateh!!