Am I Wrong?

[what?]

I have been brought up as a sikh...not to discriminate against anyone by creed or colour. I've been brought up in a fairly strict, yet liberal environment. I'm lucky in that even though I live in a rough area, I don't get much racial abuse. A pretty happy world really. Till I fell in love with a girl from the "wrong" caste. Racial abuse from people within your own religion, because you're from a different caste? In a religion that isn't meant to have castes? I didn't even know much about castes within Sikhism till this episode occured. Now I find out that there are like 10 or more castes. Shook my world to the core. I discovered the lowly views each caste has against other castes. How in the apparently Superior Jatt caste, it's a norm to beat up your wife, your daughter, your sister, your son, drink till you are paralytic...then beat up anyone in your path and refer to your female family members as <admin-profanity filter activated>/slag/<admin-profanity filter activated>/<admin-profanity filter activated>. (Obviously, this isn't the case in every jatt house...but i'm told it is in a very high percentage...one of my best friends is jatt and it doesn't happen in his house, so don't think I'm making assuptions from one single case).

So...I'd like to marry this girl, but apparently I can't, due to differences on both sides...(yes, these cross caste marriages do occur more often these days, but how many members of both families are actually happy about it), I can't...and her brother would like to kill me...and her for that matter...even though I'm from a pretty decent background, don't drink, don't eat meat, don't cut my hair, have never had sex with anyone never mind white/black/oriental/asian girls or any of the other normal "he's bad cos of..." reasons

So am I completely wrong in thinking that this whole situation and the many like it, is a complete farce and the whole essence of Sikhism has been diluted, hijacked by anyone with an ego, the gift of the gab and a little "knowledge" of the scriptures and a lot of bad vibes within them?

It would be less controversial and easier...for me to marry a white girl, then to marry a girl from a different caste...even though the requirements for the Anand Karaj are thus:

The Reht Maryada which is The Official Sikh Code of Conduct specifies that no thought should be given to the perspective spouses caste, race or lineage. As long as both the boy and girl profess the Sikh faith and no other faith they may be joined in wedlock by the Anand Karaj ceremony.

So...please...tell me..."Voice of the Sikh Youth" What do you think about this?

(And no I'm not a coconut, I do know about my religion and I'm not of particularly low intelligence)

[Sunny]

So am I completely wrong in thinking that this whole situation and the many like it, is a complete farce and the whole essence of Sikhism has been diluted, hijacked by anyone with an ego, the gift of the gab and a little "knowledge" of the scriptures and a lot of bad vibes within them?

So...please...tell me..."Voice of the Sikh Youth" What do you think about this?

115484[/snapback]

The essence of Sikhism is not diluted because the people you speak of and the scenarios you described are by no means condoned by our religion. Your post pretty much describes the negative aspects of our culture and people.

Don't associate all that garbage with Sikhi. It's just a matter of bad people who think like coconuts.

The moment someone "hijacks" Sikhism all value and bliss is lost, especially by those who claim to be a part of particular castes, drink and eat meat in the same household showing beautiful portraits of our Guru's.

[UntitledSingh]

Fateh!

Veer Ji, I am not the best person to ask on relationship advice or family matters but I say that you do what is in your heart, if you love this girl marry her. Forget your family members who value their caste. I also have problems with my family members because I plan to take off my last name and put Singh, or they are always telling me to tie my turban certain way. We are the new generation we can make a difference, we can rid this ridiculious caste system from our religion. So you are 100% right.

Fateh!

[hardykaur]

It's easy for us here to say do this an do that but really no one knows anything till it's them.

As much as we say the caste system is not meant to be in sikhi it exists. there are differences between people. This could be the way they live or pray.

As much as we might be saying "i don't belive in this caste system" , actually when it comes down to it no boy here would want their sister to marry someone from a diff caste.

being a girl in a family where the caste system exists is hard. As much as i try to argue in sikhi we are not meant to have castes i always get the answer of "you want to marry someone outside,go on then but don't expect to step in this house again". An well bringing shame to the family.

Even though you say it might be better to marry a white girl your wrong. Parents might treat u really differently and well your family will be the talk of the town.

Either way its a hard choice do what your heart says or do as your family says.

You have to choose an either one is going to bring heart ache but make sure you choose the right one as it might be the biggest choice you make in your life.

[what?]

So am I completely wrong in thinking that this whole situation and the many like it, is a complete farce and the whole essence of Sikhism has been diluted, hijacked by anyone with an ego, the gift of the gab and a little "knowledge" of the scriptures and a lot of bad vibes within them?

So...please...tell me..."Voice of the Sikh Youth" What do you think about this?

115484[/snapback]

The essence of Sikhism is not diluted because the people you speak of and the scenarios you described are by no means condoned by our religion. Your post pretty much describes the negative aspects of our culture and people.

Don't associate all that garbage with Sikhi. It's just a matter of bad people who think like coconuts.

The moment someone "hijacks" Sikhism all value and bliss is lost, especially by those who claim to be a part of particular castes, drink and eat meat in the same household showing beautiful portraits of our Guru's.

115485[/snapback]

Sunny...you better read my post again. There is a question that I asked you to answer, you didn't do that. Furthermore, I am not concerned with other religions that indeed have their own bad aspects, I am at this moment in time, concerned with my religion. You say that the actions and scenarios that I speak of are not condoned by this religion...it's happening and nothing is being done about it, people would rather not deal with it and sweep it under that carpet. You say that I am describing the negative aspects of our culture and people... Yes. I am. These aspects are there for everyone to see and they are rife amongst us, which means that there is complacency and ignorance within our religion (yes all the other religions are ignorant and whatever too, but I'm concerned about Sikhism) and these issues should be dealt with and sorted out, if not the religion will falter, is faltering, divisions have already occured, there is in-fighting in gurdwara's all over, because people have lost the essence of Sikhism. It's not all happy and shiny...don't overlook this...it needs to be dealt with. And answer my question...am I wrong?

[fists_of_fury]

No your not wrong in my eyes. D/w about caste. Our parents have been bought via the caste system even though it is job-based we dont really need it in western countries. But never forget where you come from (bloodline). And why so many people when talking about caste always say Jatts are the ones who care about caste. Hello wake up to reality other castes think they are higher etc etc, for example in Ramgarhia Gurudwara in Slough u aint allowed to join the comitee unless ur ramgarian/tharkan If you and the girl really love each other go ahead forget everything about the caste system and both take amrit that way u belong to the best caste of all the Khalsa Panth.

I discovered the lowly views each caste has against other castes. How in the apparently Superior Jatt caste, it's a norm to beat up your wife, your daughter, your sister, your son, drink till you are paralytic...then beat up anyone in your path and refer to your female family members as <admin-profanity filter activated>/slag/<admin-profanity filter activated>/<admin-profanity filter activated>. (Obviously, this isn't the case in every jatt house...but i'm told it is in a very high percentage...one of my best friends is jatt and it doesn't happen in his house, so don't think I'm making assuptions from one single case).

Look im from a Jatt family, I dont drink but just happens to be that high percentage love thier drink and socialising. The wife beating and the rest of bullocks u mentioned happens rarely nowdays, im sure its common in other castes and refering to female family members as " " is a big bunch of bullocks.

Sorry if I am being rude just wanted to clear up a few points.

[GushK]

Caste has no place in sikhi at all, ever...full stop. It exists, is a problem and won't be easy to get rid of...

The thing is, it's very difficult to change people's thinking, the only thing you can do is stick to your own guns.

just need to say, "in my family this stops with me, and this generation". U may not be able to change others but you can definitly make sure that the crap stops with u and goes no further.

I'm lucky for the fact that i've been born and raised in a gursikh family and they've given me every help and support and they place no value on caste, but whenever people ask me what caste i'm from, I just say I don't know, and i don't tell em my surname unless i really have 2.

Annoys a few people, and many seem shocked, but in actual fact, I really don't know, nor do i care.

If I don't know or care about it, how can anyone use it against me? how are they gonna find out, clairvoyance?

Regards

Gursharan Singh

[MajhelSoorma]

How in the apparently Superior Jatt caste, it's a norm to beat up your wife, your daughter, your sister, your son, drink till you are paralytic...then beat up anyone in your path and refer to your female family members as

I don't know from where u have heard this BUT THIS IS BULLSH*T

I am a JATT and have never ever seen or heard any kind of thing like this. Its all crap.

and atleast don't defame Jatts, Do u know to which race Maharaja Ranjit Singh, Baghel Singh, Baba Deep Singh, Baba Buddha ji, Mai Bhago ji, Bhai Mani Singh, etc belonged.

These all were Jatt.

Jatts have been GREAT SIKHS.Its true they drink, fight,etc but when they become Amritdharis they mean it.

So don't defame jatts on this sikh website.

But I have seen if u become Amritdhari, nobody asks for ur caste.

The one who enquiries about castes r those sikhs who r born Sikhs.

If u really want to marry her, both of u become amritdhari.

The actual problem arises with the kids. what do u tell them?

They become kind of confused who they r ?

I know its a hard decision and only the one who faces this problem knows how it feels.

BTW something makes me feel u r from England. R U?

[sikh supreme]

Bro my solution is get a well paid job... by a house away from both your family and her's and then live your lives together. At the end of the day you both Sikhs so it should be end of the matter but these old generation of Sikhs from punjab do not understand their own faith even. So it's upto you to do whats right for you and in accordance with Sikh teachings.

[singhy]

With most marriages, you're not just marrying your partner, but also their family...

As with the caste stuff... well sikhi has no place for caste but our "culture" does, unfortunatly both often get confused with each other by some people.

What I think about it? I think it's gay

What can you do to solve your situation? No idea