Forced Marriages Among British Sikhs

[Jaspaul Singh]

just would like to say .. and i would stick to my way ..

if i ever seen a guy beating up his wife in front of my eyes or i know of this (and its serious) .. i would beat the living ** out of him .. EVENTHOUGH his wife may not want that, but at least it will knock some sense in him .. whats the worse he can do .. beat her some more.. seriously .. these girls need to step up !!

i know this one story about a cop in toronto .. who was given assignments in an indian neighbourhood.. he was called for a disturbance from a neighbour to a basement where a new couple were staying .. new from india .. but whatever the fact was that she was beaten up soo badly.. she had so many bruises .. the cop was soo angered that when the guy came to him and raised a finger to say you cant be here.. he simply grabbed his hand and broke it ..

challo .. i guess ill be doing that also in my cop days soon time .. :wub:

[SSM]

well you could say we are copying the muslims by asking someone to convert if they want to marry us.

But from what I know it is wrong for a non sikh to have an Anand Karaj because s/he has no real respect for Guru Ji.

Then, some say only amritdharis should have an Anand Karaj as the others do not follow their Guru.

But if mona 'sikhs' can have an Anand Karaj then why not with a non-sikh, that person also bows in front of Guru Ji and why is s/he any less a sikh than their mona partner who has sikh parents.

Therefore it should be allowed and it would be wrong to ask them to convert.

In my view it is totally wrong to make someone convert only so they can marry u and not because they have fallen inlove with Guru Ji.

Copying the muslims would def be wrong in this situation, I dont know if u have heard that story of some professor singh who fell in love with a gori and she asked him to cut his hair and then she would marrry him and so he did and thenshe told him to get lost because a person that can not be faithful to God and his religion can not be faithful to his wife.

Interesting point. I guess parents do this because at least they can be sure their grandchildren wont grow up as half buddhist or whatever religion the partner is.

But it is wrong in my opinion to make someone convert because say someone is a christian and they go to church and they read the bible and u ask them to convert, well u've just taken them away from their idea of God, isnt that bad?

Ok I dont know if any of that made any sense, thats what long hrs in seminars do to u so sorry to the sangat if my posts don make sense and i've wasted the time of those who did read my posts.

and Jaspaul Singh veerji what the cop did was great but u have to ask urself what else this girl could have done, they were new from india, she did not know of any other option than to keep her families izzat and stay with this guy and plus it was not india so even if she wanted to she could not leave him because she probab dont know where to go. I know a guy in india, both his hands had been chopped off (to put it nicely) and he used to use his legs to beat his wife, men have this 'im the man' issue and violence can only stop when they get it into their heads that turning to violence actually shows a weakness in them, they feel insecure in some way adn want to prove to themself that they are powerful.

u have to feel sorry for these men aswell and maybe sciety needs to teach them that it is a weakness to beat someone up, erm especially a woman.

Waheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ki fateh

[DivineJourney]

well you could say we are copying the muslims by asking someone to convert if they want to marry us.

But from what I know it is wrong for a non sikh to have an Anand Karaj because s/he has no real respect for Guru Ji.

Then, some say only amritdharis should have an Anand Karaj as the others do not follow their Guru.

But if mona 'sikhs' can have an Anand Karaj then why not with a non-sikh, that person also bows in front of Guru Ji and why is s/he any less a sikh than their mona partner who has sikh parents.

Therefore it should be allowed and it would be wrong to ask them to convert.

In my view it is totally wrong to make someone convert only so they can marry u and not because they have fallen inlove with Guru Ji.

Copying the muslims would def be wrong in this situation, I dont know if u have heard that story of some professor singh who fell in love with a gori and she asked him to cut his hair and then she would marrry him and so he did and thenshe told him to get lost because a person that can not be faithful to God and his religion can not be faithful to his wife.

Interesting point. I guess parents do this because at least they can be sure their grandchildren wont grow up as half buddhist or whatever religion the partner is.

But it is wrong in my opinion to make someone convert because say someone is a christian and they go to church and they read the bible and u ask them to convert, well u've just taken them away from their idea of God, isnt that bad?

Ok I dont know if any of that made any sense, thats what long hrs in seminars do to u so sorry to the sangat if my posts don make sense and i've wasted the time  of those who did read my posts.

118295[/snapback]

:wub: :wub:

[Prem]

SSM

thank you for taking the time to write such a long and clever post.

[SSM]

Waheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ki fateh

guys thanks, im shocked u actually thought it was a clever post, thank you ppl, my hankar has just rocketed, but im sorry i write long posts cos i dont have time to write short ones lol.

the first compliment i had on SS, will print it out and frame it (just kiddin btw), thanks thanks thanks veerji

Waheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ki fateh

[Prem]

SSM

Dont be so humble - you spoke with knowledge and understanding - I just wish that Sikh women would stand up and rage against this otherwise it will carry on and more people will suffer because of this backwardness and this feudal mentality.

Sometimes I think as Sikhs we focus on some things of narrow concern when we could be out there changing things - if ever something needed changing it is the attitude towards women amongst Punjabi people in Britain. Sikh women should set up welfare shelters and refuges to protect women who are facing domestic violence and being beaten up by their husbands or are facing pressure to get a forced marriage - this would be SEWA - protecting the weak and vulnerable.

[SSM]

WELL, you know what the problem is, domestic violence is happening big time and if every woman left her home and moved into a refuge you can see what spiral that will create.

I'm not saying they shouldn't leave their homes, I'm saying how do we stop domestic vioelence so that women do not have to move to a refuge

It's not easy, men beat women to show power, to release anger or whatever.

women, well i wander if they would hit their husbands if they could, but one thing they can do is shout or complain all the time to the guy abt little things and really torture him like that, i mean look at the pic of the lions in the picture section, that is really how some men feel: totally trapped in the relationship with no way out.

Perhaps ppl are marrying ppl they dont and cnt love or even ppl that dont love them.

one thing I have to say is, u ask women to set up shelters but why dont u? assuming ur a bloke, would it not be more effective if u started one up, a guy, shows guys what guys think of guys that beat women.

women can help women to leave but men can help women by showing men that its not normal to beat ur wife.

ok u prob aint got time to set up a refuge, but u can contact these places and talk toi these guys or something?

Its the men that can prevent it .

Waheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ki fateh

[anjaan]

Forgive me as i have not read all posts - just responding to original...

Personally I don’t think forced marriages are so prevalant – I mean the case you talked about there is like quite old now

I know of only 2 “forced” marriages and they have both had different out comes – the one can be read about on my blog under the topics arrrrgggggghhhhhhhhh & battered housewife part 2 my blog

The other marriage was of my friend who is my age, she was married when she was 19 and she was told “this is the guy you will marry” and she was shown a photograph (the families are not strict practicing Sikhs – more like typical Punjabi family) anyways they were allowed no contact prior to the wedding and the 1st time they saw each other was at their registry thing where again they did not speak to each other

But lo and behold they were married and they’re doing great!!

I do voluntary work at a local court and we have Punjabi “Sikh” families in there every other week because of domestic violence and it’s a shame! One week we had this girl who went to India to get married and her husband had started beating her and so she reported him. During the case hearing we had to get an interpreter in and he was a right <banned word filter activated>!!!!! Instead of doing his job he started yelling at the girl saying she was a disgrace to the family and an embarrassment to the community bringing her husband to court! This guy was seriously unbelievable! Needless to say he was not asked to interpret again. And more than often we have wives so scared that they don’t even show in court. Its’ real serious stuff. You talk about doing something – I know a real cool Sikh policeman working especially with domestic violence etc likewise we are trying to establish a womans forum whereby they can come to seek advice and talk about issues such as domestic violence, rape, abuse, etc etc the help is out there but like we need to know who needs it! Victims need to take the 1st step – that’s the hardest bit.

The centre you mentioned there in Derby is really cool

Violence against women is prevalent in all communities and as Sikhs we should try our best to help everyone, I am going to be helping out a womans refuge a few hours a week from next week – I can’t wait to get stuck in, it’s the least seva I can do plus it will help me build up contacts etc for our womens forum as well as learn how it’s all done.

If any sangat members want to help check out Amnesty International (http://www.amnesty.org.uk/svaw/) (http://www.amnesty.org.nz/web/pages/home.nsf/dd5cab6801f1723585256474005327c8/5829d252b140cc84cc256ffd007b4fdc!OpenDocument)

Every day, women and girls around the world are threatened, beaten, raped, mutilated and killed with impunity. It's time to recognize that violence against women is a global human rights scandal that affects us all. Across the world, Amnesty International members are united to work towards making women's human rights a reality.

I read a story about a 14 year old girl who left home because her father thought she was a burden, on her 1st day on the streets she was raped……so she went back home only to be raped again by her father and his friend….

If anyone wants to help please see AI website or send following letter – it’s going to cost us a couple of pence but not sending it could cost someone their life

Asiwaju Bola Ahmed Tinubu

His Excellency

State Governor

The Round House

Secretariat

Alausa, Ikeja

Lagos

Nigeria

Dear Governor,

I welcome the current discussion of a “Domestic Violence and Other Related Matters Bill” by the Lagos House of Assembly.

In Nigeria, women suffer from violence in the family: they get ‘punished’ for supposed transgression, beaten, raped, or murdered.

If the Bill is passed, it will help to protect those women who face violence in the family.

The government of Lagos State, along with the federal government of Nigeria, have obligations under international human rights law to prevent violence against women and to assist women in escaping violence. Perpetrators must be prosecuted, and victims of violence given full support.

As the Governor of Lagos State, you have the power to make a difference for these women.

I urgently ask you to voice your support for the “Domestic Violence and Other Related Matters Bill” and undertake a thorough public education campaign on this issue. I urge you to publicly condemn violence against women: say it is never normal, legal or acceptable and that it is a human right abuse.

Thank you for your attention to this important matter.

Yours sincerely,

[Prem]

Anjaan

You see, I really admire what you are doing and I wish strong educated women like you will take up this struggle and fight hard to protect vulnerable women from abuse.

That Sikh lady Jasvinder Snaghera is really admirable - the most shameful thing is how some people view her. You can watch this 13 minute news reportshe did when she went back to India - she talks about her struggle and also in the newspaper article how her 22 year old sister commited suicide by pouring petrol over herself and lighting the match because she was so miserable in her arranged marriage.

Anyway, you see, it is my impression too that forced marriages rarely happen amongst Sikhs these days - although the news programe in the link above suggests otherwise. But what you said about the thing that happened in court with the interpret is shocking and evil - what some men put their women through. You know what it is? British girls educated here with a mind o ftheir own and intelligence of their own get married to some backward man from Punjab who cannot handle her having her own mind and create misery.

I think that domestic violence is the most terrible thing and when I hear that it is so hushed up amongst Sikhs it makes me angry.

Victims need to take the 1st step – that’s the hardest bit

Yeah you are right - dont you think that Sikh girls can help in this by being confident and engaging them - people like yourself who can work on their behalf? What role can the Gurdwara play in helping them with their rights to be protected against violence?

Violence against women is prevalent in all communities and as Sikhs we should try our best to help everyone, I am going to be helping out a womans refuge a few hours a week from next week – I can’t wait to get stuck in, it’s the least seva I can do plus it will help me build up contacts etc for our womens forum as well as learn how it’s all done

.

Best of luck - we need people like you to go out there and be ACTIVISTS - it is definitely seva. You have my admiration and best wishes.

-------------------------

SSM

if there was love then why the violece?

Because men are weak and can stoop down to become so crude and brutal and their egos are small - especially with the feudal Punjabi mentality - when they think things should be as they were in the pind or they are raised in this country to believe that they are the Lord and Master - when they cannot reconcile themselves with the modern world, when they feel threatened because women have independent thoughts and minds, they use their fists because they arepetty tyrants and are not capable of accepting a woman as equal - especially in this culture of izzat we have.

one thing I have to say is, u ask women to set up shelters but why dont u? assuming ur a bloke, would it not be more effective if u started one up, a guy, shows guys what guys think of guys that beat women.

Yeah but what can I really do as a man? All I can do is

(a) Give money to charities like womens refuges

(b) In my daily life talk about this with as many men as I know - ultimately it is the family that can stop this - if a man beats his wife and everybody in the family and friends tells him that if he does this he is not a man he is a wicked cruel tyrant preying on weak and vulnerable women, and make him and outcaste and show him anger and so he knows that this is looked down on nothing will happen. When the family covers it up for izzat or whatever the woman suffers. We have to change mentalities and mindsets.

We can start by marrying people in this country to other British Sikhs - stop importing men from Punjab as much as we can.

If I was rich I would fund these organisations - that would be all I could do - but it is up to people like you and Anjaan to make the difference - you are the ones that can make the change and actually do something - you know your rights and you should not stand for this in our community - or any other community either. You live in England and nobody can stop you from working to oppose this - there are no panchayats to terrorise girls now - stand up for your rights and dont let bastards get away with these crimes.

[sikh supreme]

Forced marriages are obviously immoral

Arranged marriages are great aslong as both girl and boy are happy with each other.

Inter-caste and Inter-race marriages are also great aslong as both girl and boy are Sikh.

The main problem occurs usually when a girl gets into the wrong crowd at school and starts to go off the rails by basically prostituing herself to guys... this obviously brings shame, disgrace and dishonour to her family. Who then want and then try to force her to get married off to an innocent "freshie" guy from India to save face in the community.

It's a very difficult and sensative issue. I know from first hand experience how a family feels. My cousin sister ran off and got pregnant by a secret bf she was seeing. Her parents were devasted and in their eyes she was dead and no long their daughter. And I have great sympathy for them it is not their fault for raising such a misfortune, self-centred, immoral excuse for a girl. So you can understand why some parents want to force marriages upon girls who have gone astray. But its obviously its not justifible.