Bhai Bala Jee And Bhai Maradana Jee

[Jai Tegang!]

dark day of the panth....erasing the names of our great Gursikhs of the past.

so who's next Khalsa ji, did Baba Banda singh exist or no?

137996[/snapback]

I think you should blame Bhai Gurdas for this because for some reason he 'erased' this great Gursikh Bhai Bala from history. Bhai Gurdas mentions even minor followers of Guru Nanak but not Bhai Bala. Could it be because there was no such person? This is strange because according to the Bhai Bala Janamsakhi, Bhai Bala plays a prominant role in Guru Nanak's life.

138031[/snapback]

No thanks, i'll continue blaming likes of you.

Do you have any idea how this particular argument can be used to argue ridiculous points... 'becasue it's not written here, it wasn't so'....

Bhai Gurdass Ji's prime objective was not that of a historian, neither is SGGS, nor is Dasam Granth. All three works don't focus on history per say.

[proud_to_be_singhni]

dark day of the panth....erasing the names of our great Gursikhs of the past.

so who's next Khalsa ji, did Baba Banda singh exist or no?

137996[/snapback]

I think you should blame Bhai Gurdas for this because for some reason he 'erased' this great Gursikh Bhai Bala from history. Bhai Gurdas mentions even minor followers of Guru Nanak but not Bhai Bala. Could it be because there was no such person? This is strange because according to the Bhai Bala Janamsakhi, Bhai Bala plays a prominant role in Guru Nanak's life.

138031[/snapback]

vaheguroooooo....

bikramjit singh......what are you saying??!

[>Bikramjit Singh<]

dark day of the panth....erasing the names of our great Gursikhs of the past.

so who's next Khalsa ji, did Baba Banda singh exist or no?

137996[/snapback]

I think you should blame Bhai Gurdas for this because for some reason he 'erased' this great Gursikh Bhai Bala from history. Bhai Gurdas mentions even minor followers of Guru Nanak but not Bhai Bala. Could it be because there was no such person? This is strange because according to the Bhai Bala Janamsakhi, Bhai Bala plays a prominant role in Guru Nanak's life.

138031[/snapback]

No thanks, i'll continue blaming likes of you.

Do you have any idea how this particular argument can be used to argue ridiculous points... 'becasue it's not written here, it wasn't so'....

Bhai Gurdass Ji's prime objective was not that of a historian, neither is SGGS, nor is Dasam Granth. All three works don't focus on history per say.

138148[/snapback]

You can believe what you want it makes no difference to me what you believe. I just posted some of the research that has been done on Bhai Bala and the majority of its points to there being no such person.

[Guest rsingh]

There was a talk at London Sikhi week where the apeaker to touched upon this point that bhai bhala didnt exsist. instead in that pic he sugessted 1 person was mentioned, (he gave a name i cant rember) and said this suggests it was mardana and someone who later became to be Guru angad dev sahib Jee.

I also learnt recently that if you read literature that if ment to be writtern by or dicated by ballah you will find contridictions. its a shame i didnt record these programs. :lol:.

[Kharkoo4Life]

There seems to be much confusion on this forum on the topic of whether Bhai Bala was a real person or not. This is not surprising since this same confusion exists in the Sikh Panth as a whole. We here are all some fortunate tho that we are all currently students or were students recently and have been taught the value of critical analysis. For that is the purpose of higher education. To give the individual the tools of rational thought and deductive reasongin and be able to apply them in every walk of their life. This skill that they possess is what makes university/college graduates more sought after by companies (not merely a paper diploma).

Even today many people are so strongly supportive and die hard believers in the existence of Bhai Bala that they will openly use his name in their katha and sakhis within gurdwaras and if anyone dares to even challenge them or question the validity of these sakhis they label them as traitors to the panth and that they are tryin to change history. This is a very immature attitude. A sikh is defined by this very virtue that they do not live in blind faith. That a sikh cannot be fooled by anyone and will not believe anything they hear just cuz so and so said it. A Sikh always analyzes every situation on his own and then using the refernce guide of gurbani to ascertain wether it is true or not. So let us do the same on this topic

WIth regards to dicussion on the topic of Bhai Bala, an excellent overview of the subject matter is given in Prof Sahib Singhs book, "Adhi Bir Barai". There is an english translation available and i hihgly encourage everyone to try and read it at some point in time. The book discusses a large number of false sakhis, banis, compositions, myths that have been associated with the Gurus and employs a very calm natured, clear and direct, scientific approach to analyzing each of them. After reading the book there should be no doubt as to the origin, motive and authenticity of all these fake, spurious additions to Sikh history.

Below is the section from this book dealing with Bhai Bala.

The Janamsakhi of Bhai Bala.

The name of Bhai Bala is so popular that it is doubtful if any other Sikh is popular to that extent. Both learned and lay men believe that Bhai Bala was a Sikh of Guru Nanak Dev; he was also a resident of Talwandi; during the Gurus long tours, he was ever with the Guru. After Guru Nanak Dev's demise, Guru Angad Dev called him from Talwandi. He lived with the Guru and helped in writing the life history of Guru Nanak Dev, which book is called ``Janamsakhi of Bhai Bala.'' Everywhere in Punjab, in all gurdwaras, people daily hear the stories from this Janamsakhi.

But it is most surprising that such a renowned Sikh of Guru Nanak Dev, called Bhai Bala, was totally ignored by the accepted topmost scholar poet of Sikhism, named Bhai Gurdas Bhalla, who in his 11th //, while giving the list of the devotees of Guru Nanak Dev, omitted the name of Bhai Bala! Bhai Gurdas even included the name of Nawab Daulat Khan Lodi, as the devotee of Guru Nanak Dev, but not of Bhai Bata. In the first //, Bhai Gurdas very briefly gave an account of Guru Nanak Dev's life. While describing the Third Missionary Tour of Guru Nanak Dev for visiting Mecca, Madina, Baghdad and other places, Bhai Gurdas states ``Baba went to Baghdad and stayed there at the outskirts of the City. There was one God Man, the Baba, and the second one was Minstrel Mardana.''

How strange it is! Every Sikh considers Bala as the great devotee of Guru Nanak Dev and the life history of the Guru as told by him was most authentic; and that this record was the oldest one. On the other hand the great Sikh historian, Karam Singh, in his book ``Katiak or Baisakh'', has stated the reality of Bala's Janamsakhi. By writing this book, Karam Singh has rendered singular service to the cause of Sikhism. Every literate Sikh should read this book and appreciate the real service rendered by him. By giving a number of references from the book of Bhai Baja's Janamsakhi, he wrote at the end

With this history, one can say without fear that this Janamsakhi was made at the end of Guru Gobind Singh's time. It could not have been written earlier than Guru Gobind Singh's time.

We give below some of the factors that led Sardar Karam Singh to draw the above conclusion. We will give references from the second edition of the book ``Katak or Baisakh'', which was published in 1932 and contains 270 pages --

1. Page 197 : Names of certain selected cities and villages are changed from time to time. ``Eminabad'' is a new name of the city, which was previously known as Saidpur. Although the new name of this city had been decided, at the time of Guru Nanak Dev himself, but became current only after it was registered in official records. Before Ain-e-Akbari, the name of this city was famous as Saidpur. Even Mohd. Quasim Farishta, who lived during the time of Akbar, mentions the name of Saidpur. The Puratan Janam Sakhi written in 1691 Bikrami (1634 A.D) makes mention of Saidpur. But the Janamsakhi of Bhai Bala, stated to be the oldest, makes mention of ``Eminabad''

2. Page 198: In Puratan Janamsakhi, wherever there was a mention of names of Bhai Jhanda and Bhai Lalo, word ``badhi'' was also used with their names. The word ``badhi'' is a Punjabi word. The word ``tarkhan'' was derived from the Balochi word ``darkhan''. When the Baloch people came to Punjab, being Muslims, they had a voice in the administration. As a result of their use of word ``darkhan'' for a carpenter, the Punjabis also began to use the word ``tarkhan'' for carpenter, instead of ``badhi''. This was much later development. In Bhai Bala's Janamsakhi word used is ``tarkhan'' -- this Janamsakhi apparently was not written during Guru Angad Dev's time.

3. Page 199 : The following Slok appears in Bala's Janamsakhi purported to have been uttered by Guru Nanak Dev during discussion with Pandit Braham Das (Kashmiri)

gur miliyai man rahasiyai, lion vuthai dharan see gar. ....

But this Slok is of Sri Guru Amar Das Ji.

4. Page 201 : When Guru Nanak Dev went to Medina, there he had discussion with the Quazis. The Guru was stated to have uttered the following Shabad

alahu agam khudayi bande.........

But this is Guru Arjan Dev's Shabad.

5. Page 210 : When Guru Nanak Dev in his First Tour, visited the country of devas, there Raja Devdoot became the Sikh of the Guru. During the discussion that followed between them, it has been stated: ``Guru Nanak said, `O Bhai Devloot, I appoint you a Masand of this place.'' But the Masand System came into existence from the time of Guru Arjan Dev. Before that time, this word had never been used by the Sikhs.

6. Page 210 : According to Bhai Bala, Mardana got the Rabab from a nomadic, and asked the Guru about Gurmukhi instruments. The Guru replied: ``O Mardana, Rabab and Dhadd are the Sikh instruments of music.'' But ``Dhadd'' was introduced by Guru Hargobind for singing Vars and other marshal tunes. During the earlier times, it was not used by the Sikhs.

The Real Author of Bhai Bala's Janamsakhi

Possibility of Confusion

Guru Nanak Dev's demise took place in 1539A.D. The author of Bhai Bala's Janamsakhi showed to the people that Guru Angad immediately on becoming the Guru called for Bhai Bala, who started dictating this Janamsakhi. Sardar Karam Singh historian has proved that this book was written after 1750 Bikrami (1693 A.D). The author of this Janamsakhi had in his mind some ulterior motives. The author wanted to create confusion in Sikhs. Guru Nanak Dev's Date of Birth

Sardar Karam Singh's book ``Kartik or Baisakh'' has clarified the confusion created by this Janamsakhi. He writes that all the old Janamsakhis had mentioned the date of Guru Nanak's Birth on Baisakh Sudi 3 (April 15), but Bhai Bala's Janamsakhi without any reason stated that the Guru was born on the Full Moon Day of the month of Kartik. It created confusion in Sikhs, which still continues. The old Janamsakhis mention the date of birth as Baisakh Sudi 3 (April 15), while we continue to celebrate the day on the Full Moon Day in Kartik.

Regarding Baba Handal

Karam Singh refers to the stories as given in Bhai Bala's Janamsakhi, relating to the departure for abode of God, story of discussion with Bhagat Dhrooh, and the story of visit to Kandhar in all these stories Guru Nanak Dev was downgraded and Baba Handal was greatly exalted. They have lifted Baba Handal to such an extent that he had reached the Court of God. Karam Singh

writes on page 238, of his book, as under –

The contents of Bhai Bala's Janamsakhi are clear. It is all in praise of Baba Handal and condemnation of Guru Nanak Dev. It is for this reason, the author of Bhai Bala's Janamsakhi can be none else but a Niranjania. But there are two things to bear in mind: firstly, to consider Sri Kabir higher than Guru Nanak Dev, secondly, Handal claiming to be the Sikh Brother of the Guru in Treta Yuga. Many people think that the Janamsakhi of Bhai Bala, which contains much praise of Sri Kabir, is a trick of the Kabir Panthis. But this is not true. In the Janamsakhi of Niranjanias, it has been clearly admitted that Kabir was the greatest of all the Bhagats, except for Baba Handal. Therefore, to suspect that the Kabir Pathis had their hand in it, is a baseless argument. The second point is all the more surprising. In this Janamsakhi, it is written that in Treta Yuga, the Guru was aservant of Raja Janak, used to worship images and tell lies. But in this account it has been stated that in Treta Yuga, the Guru and Handal were Sikh Brothers and both were the Masands of Raja Janak. From this it is clear that those who had written this Janamsakhi, never realised their mistake. The author of the Janamsakhi tied up both the ends one (Handal) was raised sky high and the other (Guru Nanak Dev) according to their mean thoughts, lowered to greatest depth of the underworld.

Why we turned to this side?

We were in search of the source which caused inclusion of spurious compositions into the copies of handwritten Holy Books. Who did this mischief and how did it happen? In this search, we came across Bhai Bala's Janamsakhi, which was written 20 25 years after the Martyrdom of Sri Guru Tegh Bahadur in 1675 A.D. In this Janamsakhi, the date of birth of Guru Nanak Dev has been given differently from the previous ones and it is in this book that the Guru has been ridiculed and insulted to the extreme. The chief of the Niranjania sect, Baba Handal has been greatly praised and has been shown of much higher status than Guru Nanak Dev. Sardar Karam Singh reached the conclusion that Bhai Bala's Janamsakhi was written at the initiative of the Niranjania sect. But to keep the Sikhs in confusion, they were informed that this was written in the presence of Sri Guru Angad Dev Ji at the dictation of Bhai Bala.

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