Evil: The Author Of Sikhi

[Sinister]

By Sinister,

To everyone with the utmost respect:

Welcome to the post! thankyou for taking the time and replying to my questions (just in advance)!

EVERYONE, ASK YOURSELF BEFORE YOU PROCEED, IS HUMANITY THE AUTHOR OF EVIL?

MY ARGUMENT: labeling humanity as the author of evil gives us too much power and for that matter too much credit!

Translation:

Did a Sikh not feel the ground tremble as the large imperial armies marched to destroy him and his people? Did this trembling of the earth not ultimately shape his Sikh Psyche?

Did the Mughal Nobles not play an essential role in shaping Sikhi into what it has become today?

I say--> If the 10th Guru is the author of the Khalsa then the Moghuls and their actioins are certainly the co-authors (this is what I mean when I say the guru's and their teachings are derivatives of the society they lived in).

Human evil (the actions of the Mughal nobles) gave birth to Sikhi!

Sikhi, my friend, is the rebellious child of evil!

Sikhi would not exist if the guru’s saw no need to bring about the reformation within an existing society, thus Evil is the author of Sikhi, and gave Sikhi not only purpose but direction.

Now we have to ask ourselves did the Guru’s wish for a Utopian Society in which evil was no more, do they wish for a society in which people live in perfect synchronous harmony with the “divine”?

Why does Sikhi want to terminate what made it? Why does Sikhi want to terminate evil that made almost all the world religions.

Is evil bad?

so if evil is good and good is good how should we live our lives?

-->to that i say this: simply on the basis of taste, our taste or GODs, unfortunately we dont know gods "taste".

previously, many people on his forum said that my questions only makes generalizations, and sweeps the surface of sikhi, I beg to differ.

If we label humanity the author of evil we give it too much power and credit. God is the author of both GOOD and EVIL, if it is truly god that developed Sikhi.

:lol: SIKH LEFTISTS FREE YOUR MINDS :umm:

[Bhajneet]

okay.... this might take a while.

To everyone with the utmost respect:

you've disrespected me by asking me to answer an ambiguous question.... only to have me....

EVERYONE, ASK YOURSELF BEFORE YOU PROCEED, IS HUMANITY THE AUTHOR OF EVIL?

mm... i actually asked myself that, felt like an <banned word filter activated> too since i'm a layman, and didn't understand half of what i asked myself.

Okay, so if i understand this correctly... you're saying that back then the popular beliefs were evil, and thats why guru jee wanted to fix them.

and the so-called "evils" gave birth to sikhi.

then you said, why do we want to eliminate that which gave us birth.

umm... isn't this a bit circular? you say that evil gave us birth (because we wanted to stop evil..... thats why we were born)... then you say why do we want to stop evil.

i'm a layman, not a simpleton

what you're asking is for me to give up sikhi.

once again, you seem to have this image of yourself "rallying the troops" so to speak. you can't just make an argument with circular reasoning and hope i hail down to you.

PS - stop with the leftists free your mind thing, its very disturbing and i keep thinking of the rave party in the matrix. "free your mind, neo" yadda yadda. btw, general rule of thumb when trying to persuade someone, dont use big words that dont fit in context

My second edit...

Also, i noticed that this isn't really about what you're talking about. If i inferred correctly, what you're trying to do is criticize sikhi from teh inside. I have the strange feeling, you dont really care what gave us birth and yaddda yadda, wha tyou're really trying to say is that we were born so that we could correct the evils.

you're playing this persuasion thing like a chess board, you can't make a move like that.

[Guest hsm316]

By Sinister,

To everyone with the utmost respect:

Welcome to the post! thankyou for taking the time and replying to my questions (just in advance)!

EVERYONE, ASK YOURSELF BEFORE YOU PROCEED, IS HUMANITY THE AUTHOR OF EVIL?

MY ARGUMENT: labeling humanity as the author of evil gives us too much power and for that matter too much credit!

Translation:

  Did a Sikh not feel the ground tremble as the large imperial armies marched to destroy him and his people? Did this trembling of the earth not ultimately shape his Sikh Psyche?

Did the Mughal Nobles not play an essential role in shaping Sikhi into what it has become today?

I say--> If the 10th Guru is the author of the Khalsa then the Moghuls and their actioins are certainly the co-authors (this is what I mean when I say the guru's and their teachings are derivatives of the society they lived in).

Human evil (the actions of the Mughal nobles) gave birth to Sikhi!

Sikhi, my friend, is the rebellious child of evil!

Sikhi would not exist if the guru’s saw no need to bring about the reformation within an existing society, thus Evil is the author of Sikhi, and gave Sikhi not only purpose but direction.

Now we have to ask ourselves did the Guru’s wish for a Utopian Society in which evil was no more, do they wish for a society in which people live in perfect synchronous harmony with the “divine”?

Why does Sikhi want to terminate what made it? Why does Sikhi want to terminate evil that made almost all the world religions.

Is evil bad?

so if evil is good and good is good how should we live our lives?

-->to that i say this: simply on the basis of taste, our taste or GODs, unfortunately we dont know gods "taste".

previously, many people on his forum said that my questions only makes generalizations, and sweeps the surface of sikhi, I beg to differ.

If we label humanity the author of evil we give it too much power and credit. God is the author of both GOOD and EVIL, if it is truly god that developed Sikhi.

:lol: SIKH LEFTISTS FREE YOUR MINDS :umm:

132169[/snapback]

So wonderfully poetic and delicately put!! Mine shall be the only post you aren't expecting, so take care not to lose heart and fall into shock, take stock und stelleng! Here is my reply... :-)

Guru Gobind Singh gave a practical shape and form to the Khalsa when he asked the 5 to give their heads to the Guru. But some 200 years before that day, as Guru Nanak Sahib he came unto this Earth and gave the definition to that which we know as Khalsa. Is Babar therefore a co-author? Of Sikhi? No. I put it to you that Satgur Nanak's time was due on this green Earth at that time... that he came to Punjab and there in the face of Babar is only because the people of Punjab craved His vision and presence so. If the people of South America had the power of prayer, the desire for the divine, the necessity for contentment as Punjab did... then Baba Nanak would've arrived there. No, there are no co-authors me thinks.

My sinister friend, what blasphemy do you speak of! Sikhi is not a battle against evil! You have confused the way of Nanak with that of another! This is no reaction! This is the Divine Law as it was millenia ago! We forgot and so Nanak gave us his blessed sight! Which evil does Sikhi wish to terminate? Surely that which we all do: the cycle of birth and death; of life without a true end; of stagnation of our minds and souls!

Nay, I say, Sinister, you are drawing conclusions that seem correct, and they may be so, when read from afar. But your means, your calculations are flawed at the very heart! Who was Nanak? What did He say? Left of the middle though you are my friend, I leave you with this reply:

Receive NOTION! EDUCATE thyself! Truth DISCOVER!

CONTEMPLATION! CONTEMPLATION! CONTEMPLATION!

And I leave you with these words: lupus est homo homini... ;-)

Love, peace & harmony Sinister :-) Beseech me. :-)

[Sher Khalsa]

Sinister, its good that your making people think...

but before asking all these questions, sharing all these theories, try 1 thing.. thats all i ask..

live the lifestyle our guru's preached, wake up amritvela everyday, do nitnem, spend time doing simran, take out daswandh, do sewa... dont ust do it for a day, do it for a few months, feel Sikhi for yourself..

than come back and post all your theories and questions...

sound good?

[Sinister]

To Bhajneet:

Do not hail down to me, I never asked that from you, you are putting words in my mouth.

I am but a fool in a foolish world.

All i ask is that you hail down to God and his Good and Evil ways.

To HSM136:

haha "me thinks" your wrong,

Babar's political policies had great influences on Guru Nanak, go back and reveiw some sikh history.

Babar's policies allowed for:

- Satti (essentially male dominance in both Islamic/Hindu punjab)

- Caste system prevelance, and the existance of the "pariah people"

- extreme poverty, an unfair split of resources.

the very practices Guru Nanak tried to eliminate in our faith

The people of punjab craved Guru Nanaks vision, no doubt. But not the existing nobility, whom I clearly label as the evil and prime "movers" of the Sikhi movement.

Please restructure your argument,

dont use poetry, especially if it clouds your message.

[Jaspaul Singh]

Sinister bro .. reply to sikh soldiers post instead please ..

[jagjit_waheguru]

waheguru ji kekhalsa, waheguru ji kefateh

Pyare jio, sinister ji, I am not very knowledgable but I will try and reply to all your points. I did in your previous post on tapoban aswell. Please let me know if they were suitable. However due to be very busy, forgive me if I do not give prompt replies.

responses to your post on this thread.

1. veer ji, I take issue with that fact that you mention My sahibs idealogue was influenced by Moghuls. This is with reference to the shabad "jasse mai avve kasam ki bani " ( as the truth was revealed from Akaal, so I sang). This is the true focal point of Sikh philosophy it can from Akaal via the medium of our Guru Sahibaans.

At no point in Bani it is referenced to any worldly idealogues as influeneces. Sikhism is not a collage of philosophies, but a Revelation of Truth.

In Bani, Guru ji uses analogues of Hindu mythlogy and other cultures. This is not to take from them, but highlight morals using medium whcih the common people of that area understood.

Similarly we have Babar bani, which one could say was a direct influences of Moghuls and there treatment of common folk. However the bani is far deeper and highlights the destructive nature of humans, and mind of the oppressor. So whether babur existed or not, that bani would still have been written, as it is a fundamental part of Guru jis message.

2. Gurmat does not believe in evil. This is a Christian concept, such as Christ and the anti-christ. Gurmat believes in the battlefield of the mind, which as 5 vikaars are countered by Naam and Seva. Hence we do not accept good and evil, but good and negativity which rises from the vikaars. When Guru ji writes Ik Onkaar, this means there is But one God. This fundamentally means everything is God, and Hence no anti-christ power or evil exists.

Hope this is clear. Otherwise feel free to question further.

waheguru ji kekhalsa, whaeguru ji ke fateh

[Sony]

Without darkness, you would not know light... but that does not mean you stop turning on the light....... light is essential for life.....

Sikhi is to evil as light is to dark.....

bhul chuk maaf

Waheguru ji ka khalsa, waheguru ji ki fateh

[Guest hsm316]

To HSM136:

haha "me thinks" your wrong,

Babar's political policies had great influences on Guru Nanak, go back and reveiw some sikh history.

Babar's policies allowed for:

- Satti (essentially male dominance in both Islamic/Hindu punjab)

- Caste system prevelance, and the existance of the "pariah people"

- extreme poverty, an unfair split of resources.

the very practices Guru Nanak tried to eliminate in our faith

The people of punjab craved Guru Nanaks vision, no doubt. But not the existing nobility, whom I clearly label as the evil and prime "movers" of the Sikhi movement.

Please restructure your argument,

dont use poetry, especially if it clouds your message.

132178[/snapback]

With regret I write, that my post was misspent! I had hoped for articulation, in its stead came dullsville. Sure, my message was clouded to all but a few, alas you were not one. Continue rolling the dice Sinister: Sometime you shall find, you own Park Ave, on others, bars you shall be behind! When you are ready for the Tschaturanga come find me. :-) In the meantime...

I can't turn back the clock, but I can wind it up again. ;-)

"Speak! Speak! Say as much as you will! They may all follow, me in turn too! I may look upon your words in dream and begin to appropriate myself to your feet, even my head I may beseech to you! I may propagate your thinking and fight your good fight, I myself throwing body and soul in your defence.

But err of my Baba Nanak, and it ends. Punjab da jutt rubb tau nee kutt, but speak ill of His Guru and forever fail." So long shifty... See you at the gates. :-)

[ms514]

Sat Sri Akal:

Sinister, please read Vaaran Bhai Gurdas Vaar 1 for the reasoning of why Sikhism was brought into the world. Your views have some truth in a way...but a small way.

http://searchgurbani.com/main.php?book=bha...aarindex&vaar=1