Freedom In India

[N30S1NGH]

Khalsa was never meant to have peace of land because Khalsa is Chakarvathi Fauj.

134275[/snapback]

So I take it that Banda Singh Bahadur was wrong to create a Khalsa Raj in East Punjab between 1710-1716?

Misls were wrong to take over areas of Punjab from the Mughals and then defend it against the Afghan invaders like Abdali?

Maharaja Ranjit Singh should not have ruled Punjab and called his rule as Sarkar Khalsaji?

134701[/snapback]

Khalsa raj you talked about was different than khalistan you guys are aiming for. Khalsa raj by Banda Singh Bahudar and Sher-e-Punjab Maharaja Ranjit Singh Ji appreciated diversity in Sikhi, khalistan gives no signifance to flourish beautiful garden of sri guru nanak dev where diversity is there in form of different flowers all unique in its own way. Instead khalistan or khalistanis will provide acid rain to people who follows different mindset/approach to sikhi which was quite acceptable in Khalsa Raj we had in puratan times. Examples like- kharkho sikhs killing monay because they couldn't fullfill promise to grow their kesh and kharkho sikhs killing senior members of old nihangs just because they drank sukha in moderation.

134762[/snapback]

You need to get off the forum and read a couple of good books on Sikh history and maybe then you might be able to take part in a worthwhile discussion. Diversity is Sikhism? I think your sanatan thinking is coming out here. As I wrote on another thread there is no such thing as 'diversity in Sikhi', none of the sampardhas you keep going on about were created by the Gurus. There was none of your diversity in Sikhism during the times of Banda Singh Bahadur, just a division between Khalsa into Bandai and Tat Khalsa. Same with the Misl period. Your diversity in Sikhi came about only during the time of Maharaja Ranjit Singh.

134824[/snapback]

prove it academicaly damdami taksal and other sampardha's wasn't created by sri guru sahib? why not prove it? why keeping singin same old baja in denial?

soon you will see an suprise which will tremble not only you but your sgpc leaders and other made made cults. I suggest you should brush up your scholarly skills and skills in language. It will come in handy to counter an "suprise" that you and others will receive.

In words of my freind- Roop Singh:

For some it be rain of amrit but for some it will be an rain of acid.

[simer_169]

QUOTE(Bijla Singh @ Nov 18 2005, 01:24 PM)

This is the freedom Sikhs have enjoyed in India. Our religion is disrespected and insulted yet we are still "long haired hindus"? India doesn't deserve to be called our home. We deserve better. Raj Karega Khalsa

lYxw Kwilsqwn hux sUrbIro AYNvy gloN gulwmI nhI jw sk

<<bigla singh ji these things r over why r u showing it again. we r happy in punjab and there is no surity that in our new home land some people like badal, amrinder singh, kps gill will not rule . every thing is going fine now dont try it agin. >>

WJKK  WJKF!

simer 169

too much anger, must be all the bhangra music. how dare you say things that what people have done are over in panjab, stop implying that we can forget what happened and carryon living happily, the point wahat im trying to say is are you going to remember and get justice like a lion or will you forget and runaway(ie. like a p*ssy)

134327[/snapback]

ya i have problem of anger..... .....but u should not attack personally. i am sorry to all sangat for using foul language......i know all things....i feel very aggrasive when i see or read pictures of sikhs been tortured....so at that time i got fear from myself because i can go out of control....earlier in my childhood i went upsent for many days when i saw these type of pictures and when i read about '84 riots....but now v have to come together and do work in peaceful manner....sikh r in chardi kala...try to help poor sikh brothers to come up.....spend money on sikh children who r from poor families ......i want all sikh in good position.. ...i dont want any youth to pick up guns again they should study and became successful to do seva of kom.....v live like lions in punjab no one can say any thing wrong about my religion in front of me.....thanks

134458[/snapback]

Simer

You are right there is no need for you to have been attacked personally. You apologized for the language thing despite this. Respect to you for this. Kindly address my previous question.

Surely if you have basic freedoms in the punjab and live without fear you can answer this question; which was...

"So Simer you do at least aknowledge and agree that there has been extrajudicial torture and murder by police and authorities?"

Clarify, rather than leave the doubt that your silence speaks volumes.

134679[/snapback]

buddha singh ji

ya i konw that sikhs r mudered by police....innocent amritdhari sikhs r their target...my cousin r also got in net but due to god's kirpa they r rescued by some kind police man.... what can i do now that period is gone ......what do u people expect from us?

[buddasingh]

QUOTE(Bijla Singh @ Nov 18 2005, 01:24 PM)

This is the freedom Sikhs have enjoyed in India. Our religion is disrespected and insulted yet we are still "long haired hindus"? India doesn't deserve to be called our home. We deserve better. Raj Karega Khalsa

lYxw Kwilsqwn hux sUrbIro AYNvy gloN gulwmI nhI jw sk

<<bigla singh ji these things r over why r u showing it again. we r happy in punjab and there is no surity that in our new home land some people like badal, amrinder singh, kps gill will not rule . every thing is going fine now dont try it agin. >>

WJKK  WJKF!

simer 169

too much anger, must be all the bhangra music. how dare you say things that what people have done are over in panjab, stop implying that we can forget what happened and carryon living happily, the point wahat im trying to say is are you going to remember and get justice like a lion or will you forget and runaway(ie. like a p*ssy)

134327[/snapback]

ya i have problem of anger..... .....but u should not attack personally. i am sorry to all sangat for using foul language......i know all things....i feel very aggrasive when i see or read pictures of sikhs been tortured....so at that time i got fear from myself because i can go out of control....earlier in my childhood i went upsent for many days when i saw these type of pictures and when i read about '84 riots....but now v have to come together and do work in peaceful manner....sikh r in chardi kala...try to help poor sikh brothers to come up.....spend money on sikh children who r from poor families ......i want all sikh in good position.. ...i dont want any youth to pick up guns again they should study and became successful to do seva of kom.....v live like lions in punjab no one can say any thing wrong about my religion in front of me.....thanks

134458[/snapback]

Simer

You are right there is no need for you to have been attacked personally. You apologized for the language thing despite this. Respect to you for this. Kindly address my previous question.

Surely if you have basic freedoms in the punjab and live without fear you can answer this question; which was...

"So Simer you do at least aknowledge and agree that there has been extrajudicial torture and murder by police and authorities?"

Clarify, rather than leave the doubt that your silence speaks volumes.

134679[/snapback]

buddha singh ji

ya i konw that sikhs r mudered by police....innocent amritdhari sikhs r their target...my cousin r also got in net but due to god's kirpa they r rescued by some kind police man.... what can i do now that period is gone ......what do u people expect from us?

134879[/snapback]

Simer

What percentage of killers or supporters of killers of innocent amritdhari sikhs do you think are free? Outside of the recent high profile khalra arrests, how many of these police officers or their supporters have been brought to justice? If next to no one, then why do you think this is the case?

I am not sure who "u people" and "us" is. I wish for all my brothers and sisters regardless of which faith, nation etc. sufficient self-respect, hope, security, justice, education etc. I expect them to wish the same for others.

[simer_169]

QUOTE(Bijla Singh @ Nov 18 2005, 01:24 PM)

This is the freedom Sikhs have enjoyed in India. Our religion is disrespected and insulted yet we are still "long haired hindus"? India doesn't deserve to be called our home. We deserve better. Raj Karega Khalsa

lYxw Kwilsqwn hux sUrbIro AYNvy gloN gulwmI nhI jw sk

<<bigla singh ji these things r over why r u showing it again. we r happy in punjab and there is no surity that in our new home land some people like badal, amrinder singh, kps gill will not rule . every thing is going fine now dont try it agin. >>

WJKK  WJKF!

simer 169

too much anger, must be all the bhangra music. how dare you say things that what people have done are over in panjab, stop implying that we can forget what happened and carryon living happily, the point wahat im trying to say is are you going to remember and get justice like a lion or will you forget and runaway(ie. like a p*ssy)

134327[/snapback]

ya i have problem of anger..... .....but u should not attack personally. i am sorry to all sangat for using foul language......i know all things....i feel very aggrasive when i see or read pictures of sikhs been tortured....so at that time i got fear from myself because i can go out of control....earlier in my childhood i went upsent for many days when i saw these type of pictures and when i read about '84 riots....but now v have to come together and do work in peaceful manner....sikh r in chardi kala...try to help poor sikh brothers to come up.....spend money on sikh children who r from poor families ......i want all sikh in good position.. ...i dont want any youth to pick up guns again they should study and became successful to do seva of kom.....v live like lions in punjab no one can say any thing wrong about my religion in front of me.....thanks

134458[/snapback]

Simer

You are right there is no need for you to have been attacked personally. You apologized for the language thing despite this. Respect to you for this. Kindly address my previous question.

Surely if you have basic freedoms in the punjab and live without fear you can answer this question; which was...

"So Simer you do at least aknowledge and agree that there has been extrajudicial torture and murder by police and authorities?"

Clarify, rather than leave the doubt that your silence speaks volumes.

134679[/snapback]

buddha singh ji

ya i konw that sikhs r mudered by police....innocent amritdhari sikhs r their target...my cousin r also got in net but due to god's kirpa they r rescued by some kind police man.... what can i do now that period is gone ......what do u people expect from us?

134879[/snapback]

Simer

What percentage of killers or supporters of killers of innocent amritdhari sikhs do you think are free? Outside of the recent high profile khalra arrests, how many of these police officers or their supporters have been brought to justice? If next to no one, then why do you think this is the case?

I am not sure who "u people" and "us" is. I wish for all my brothers and sisters regardless of which faith, nation etc. sufficient self-respect, hope, security, justice, education etc. I expect them to wish the same for others.

134884[/snapback]

sir these r dreams ...... and i dont think they will come true any day...no person from one faith, nation can love other...

[>Bikramjit Singh<]

Khalsa was never meant to have peace of land because Khalsa is Chakarvathi Fauj.

134275[/snapback]

So I take it that Banda Singh Bahadur was wrong to create a Khalsa Raj in East Punjab between 1710-1716?

Misls were wrong to take over areas of Punjab from the Mughals and then defend it against the Afghan invaders like Abdali?

Maharaja Ranjit Singh should not have ruled Punjab and called his rule as Sarkar Khalsaji?

134701[/snapback]

Khalsa raj you talked about was different than khalistan you guys are aiming for. Khalsa raj by Banda Singh Bahudar and Sher-e-Punjab Maharaja Ranjit Singh Ji appreciated diversity in Sikhi, khalistan gives no signifance to flourish beautiful garden of sri guru nanak dev where diversity is there in form of different flowers all unique in its own way. Instead khalistan or khalistanis will provide acid rain to people who follows different mindset/approach to sikhi which was quite acceptable in Khalsa Raj we had in puratan times. Examples like- kharkho sikhs killing monay because they couldn't fullfill promise to grow their kesh and kharkho sikhs killing senior members of old nihangs just because they drank sukha in moderation.

134762[/snapback]

You need to get off the forum and read a couple of good books on Sikh history and maybe then you might be able to take part in a worthwhile discussion. Diversity is Sikhism? I think your sanatan thinking is coming out here. As I wrote on another thread there is no such thing as 'diversity in Sikhi', none of the sampardhas you keep going on about were created by the Gurus. There was none of your diversity in Sikhism during the times of Banda Singh Bahadur, just a division between Khalsa into Bandai and Tat Khalsa. Same with the Misl period. Your diversity in Sikhi came about only during the time of Maharaja Ranjit Singh.

134824[/snapback]

prove it academicaly damdami taksal and other sampardha's wasn't created by sri guru sahib? why not prove it? why keeping singin same old baja in denial?

soon you will see an suprise which will tremble not only you but your sgpc leaders and other made made cults. I suggest you should brush up your scholarly skills and skills in language. It will come in handy to counter an "suprise" that you and others will receive.

In words of my freind- Roop Singh:

For some it be rain of amrit but for some it will be an rain of acid.

134841[/snapback]

Firstly before you ask anyone to brush up on their scholarly skills you might take you're own advice and learn to spell before you do anything else and improving your grammer would be good as well!

There is no need to prove that any samapardha was not created by the Gurus, the facts are there, check out Amritpal Singh's site and you will see that each sampardha started only in the 19th century. Only the Udasis are older but they were clearly exluded from Sikh Panth by Guru Amar Das. What proof does the sanantists have?... oh we got a tape recording by so and so baba that says blah blah blah so there you have it, we are Guru created and you are angrezi.. mallesh..british inspired Sikhi. It may work for people like you but normal people require more evidence and solid proof.

The threat of so called 'suprise' that will bring down sgpc..your leaders..angrezi sikhi..blah blah blah has been there from your sanatan friends for the last three years. One sanatanist used to go on about how some motley crew of udasis, nihangs, nirmalas etc would march and take over Akal Takht from SGPC l'm still waiting for that, the funny thing is even given the corruption of the SGPC no Sikh would ever allow sanatanists to take over a single Gurdwara let alone the Akal Takht!

[N30S1NGH]

Khalsa was never meant to have peace of land because Khalsa is Chakarvathi Fauj.

134275[/snapback]

So I take it that Banda Singh Bahadur was wrong to create a Khalsa Raj in East Punjab between 1710-1716?

Misls were wrong to take over areas of Punjab from the Mughals and then defend it against the Afghan invaders like Abdali?

Maharaja Ranjit Singh should not have ruled Punjab and called his rule as Sarkar Khalsaji?

134701[/snapback]

Khalsa raj you talked about was different than khalistan you guys are aiming for. Khalsa raj by Banda Singh Bahudar and Sher-e-Punjab Maharaja Ranjit Singh Ji appreciated diversity in Sikhi, khalistan gives no signifance to flourish beautiful garden of sri guru nanak dev where diversity is there in form of different flowers all unique in its own way. Instead khalistan or khalistanis will provide acid rain to people who follows different mindset/approach to sikhi which was quite acceptable in Khalsa Raj we had in puratan times. Examples like- kharkho sikhs killing monay because they couldn't fullfill promise to grow their kesh and kharkho sikhs killing senior members of old nihangs just because they drank sukha in moderation.

134762[/snapback]

You need to get off the forum and read a couple of good books on Sikh history and maybe then you might be able to take part in a worthwhile discussion. Diversity is Sikhism? I think your sanatan thinking is coming out here. As I wrote on another thread there is no such thing as 'diversity in Sikhi', none of the sampardhas you keep going on about were created by the Gurus. There was none of your diversity in Sikhism during the times of Banda Singh Bahadur, just a division between Khalsa into Bandai and Tat Khalsa. Same with the Misl period. Your diversity in Sikhi came about only during the time of Maharaja Ranjit Singh.

134824[/snapback]

prove it academicaly damdami taksal and other sampardha's wasn't created by sri guru sahib? why not prove it? why keeping singin same old baja in denial?

soon you will see an suprise which will tremble not only you but your sgpc leaders and other made made cults. I suggest you should brush up your scholarly skills and skills in language. It will come in handy to counter an "suprise" that you and others will receive.

In words of my freind- Roop Singh:

For some it be rain of amrit but for some it will be an rain of acid.

134841[/snapback]

Firstly before you ask anyone to brush up on their scholarly skills you might take you're own advice and learn to spell before you do anything else and improving your grammer would be good as well!

There is no need to prove that any samapardha was not created by the Gurus, the facts are there, check out Amritpal Singh's site and you will see that each sampardha started only in the 19th century. Only the Udasis are older but they were clearly exluded from Sikh Panth by Guru Amar Das. What proof does the sanantists have?... oh we got a tape recording by so and so baba that says blah blah blah so there you have it, we are Guru created and you are angrezi.. mallesh..british inspired Sikhi. It may work for people like you but normal people require more evidence and solid proof.

The threat of so called 'suprise' that will bring down sgpc..your leaders..angrezi sikhi..blah blah blah has been there from your sanatan friends for the last three years. One sanatanist used to go on about how some motley crew of udasis, nihangs, nirmalas etc would march and take over Akal Takht from SGPC l'm still waiting for that, the funny thing is even given the corruption of the SGPC no Sikh would ever allow sanatanists to take over a single Gurdwara let alone the Akal Takht!

134888[/snapback]

I am who I am.. I don't need to brush any of my skills. I am not aiming for scholarship or ritual of "witchhunt" that you people beleive in.

anyway i m off at this discussion.. .keep it up...people who go up in sky fastly try to touch it , gets drop like a stone at the end.

[khalsaforce]

I AGREE WITH BIJLA SINGH 100%.

TORTURE STILL EXIST IN PUNJAB. HERE ARE SOME EXAMPLES.

Balbir Singh an alleged victim of torture by the Khanna Police.The Punjab State Human Rights Commission (PSHRC) has come to the rescue of a Mohali resident, who was allegedly tortured by the Khanna police over a land dispute on March 31. The man suffered burn injuries after a policeman threw acid on him while in police custody.

Allegedly tortured by the Punjab Police for his refusal to pay a bribe of Rs 100 bribe, a man called off his scheduled marriage fearing, he might not sire children. Mohali resident Buta Singh's marriage had to be finalised with a girl from Sector 41 of Chandigarh only three days after he was allegedly beaten up on June 22 before the incident. A 27-year-old Buta Singh has been paying through his nose with his medical and legal bill running into around Rs 70,000. All this for his refusal to part with Rs 100 five months ago.

[KH4L1$T4N1]

Khalsa was never meant to have peace of land because Khalsa is Chakarvathi Fauj.

134275[/snapback]

So I take it that Banda Singh Bahadur was wrong to create a Khalsa Raj in East Punjab between 1710-1716?

Misls were wrong to take over areas of Punjab from the Mughals and then defend it against the Afghan invaders like Abdali?

Maharaja Ranjit Singh should not have ruled Punjab and called his rule as Sarkar Khalsaji?

134701[/snapback]

Khalsa raj you talked about was different than khalistan you guys are aiming for. Khalsa raj by Banda Singh Bahudar and Sher-e-Punjab Maharaja Ranjit Singh Ji appreciated diversity in Sikhi, khalistan gives no signifance to flourish beautiful garden of sri guru nanak dev where diversity is there in form of different flowers all unique in its own way. Instead khalistan or khalistanis will provide acid rain to people who follows different mindset/approach to sikhi which was quite acceptable in Khalsa Raj we had in puratan times. Examples like- kharkho sikhs killing monay because they couldn't fullfill promise to grow their kesh and kharkho sikhs killing senior members of old nihangs just because they drank sukha in moderation.

134762[/snapback]

REAL Khalistani Kharkoos never killed monay for simply being monay and nihungs werent killed because they drank sukha. There were alot of nihngs like ajit phoola and his cronies who becam kp gll's black cats and got many Singhs killed by the police. The head of Budha Dal , Santa su worked for indira. Nihungs like kahn su baggi (predecessor of phoola) were killed for there role in killing Sikh youths for people like kp Gill

[LostSoul]

Shut the hell up and stop calling out for more needless murder.

134664[/snapback]

If your sensibilities don't want to be party to the discussion then feel free to leave the thread. "Shut the hell up" is not really in the spirit of a sikhsangat discussion group.

I did not notice someone calling for murder here lostsoul! If you have deciphered such information here perhaps we should contact authorities so they can obtain search warrants for sikhsangat records to follow up on your acute murder sniffing abilities OR simply charge you with obstruction of justice or equivalent provisions of your country. Perhaps you want to retract the suggestion that someone is calling for murder.

To address your question regarding injustice against Sikhs in India affecting us, my family's life has been affected in unspeakable and unchangeable ways due to loved innocent ones being tortured and jailed.

Should I not care because I may not be in the punjab? Those that differ in distance, citizenship or culture are somehow less deserving of justice is an eerie stance. Ever heard of a man by the name of Adolf?

134677[/snapback]

Is not the taking up of arms going to lead to death, and should I dare say it, but maybe a innocents murder! Some people here are trying to incite another civil war where thousands of people were killed. I send my condolences for the tragedies against your family, but does that mean now after many years some one elses family should also have to suffer the same difficulties yours has, because of a personal vendetta? I did not say do not get justice, but way not go the way of peace? Why call for more death, to avenge death? Are you now trying to parallel Hitlers Germany to modern India?

134767[/snapback]

Lostsoul,

Regarding the reference to Adolf… Suggestions that we can’t care for people in other parts of the world because they differ from us is absurd if not eerie. People have spoken up about inhumanity in Rwanda, Bosnia, Iraq etc.. If you said to those people “shutup unless you live there or are willing to pack your bags and go there”, they would think you’re mad. If you said that you not Iraqi so you should not care, you are asking us to forget the fact that all are human.

With respect, yours is a leap in thinking regarding violence. You suggest that if one believes in sovereignty for Sikhs, they advance picking up the nearest weapon and shooting people. This would be no different than me suggesting that you and others here want to promote torture and murder by the state. It simply does not make rational sense. A rational stance should not require this type of sensationalistic tarring.

I appreciate your gesture regarding my family. However, I was simply replying to Namstang and others who suggesting that we should not be affected if not in punjab. HOWEVER this is not about my family or your family. It is about human beings of any family facing injustice. There are innumerable families who may never rest peacefully. I don’t feel sorry for myself, rather sikhi has taught me maintain a sense of justice for all. I do not think that I need to spell out the fact that in promoting self-governance for sikhs, there should be the highest possible regard for all, regardless of background based on fundamental universal values of sikhi, consistent with universal human values.

No one is forcing you to be part of seeking justice. If you think that the world is fine or Punjab is fine and your voice is not required then that is your choice. There is no shortage of many young sikhs who promote self-governance for sikhs that are amongst the most educated, liberal sikhs. They are also almost inevitably involved in seeking justice for people who have nothing to do with sikhi. Their idea of khalistan does not arise from a typical punjabi caste based self-glorification thinking, rather they have an innate sense of dignity and justice with a critical mind to decipher topics beneath the media’s gloss of sludge.

134816[/snapback]

I never once said "do not care about whats not happening in your own backyard". I simply said if you dont understand whats happening dont stir up trouble. Yes I would be ready to go to Punjab right now and help my fellow Sikhs if yes they were indeed being persecuted. Punjab has been relatively calm for a decade now, what would be the need to go and invoke more killings? Let me ask you the people clamouring for Khalistan, do you think they are plotting to go back and politlely ask for secession, or do they have the intentions to go back with guns blazing. The movement for Khalistan is not a peaceful one, so I dont believe I jumped to any conclusions. I believe one voice can change the world, or at least spark the light to start it, and if it takes my lonely voice calling for peace Ill continue shouting until I go hoarse.

[sikh_assasin]

wjkkwjkf I am sad to say there is little we can do about these things inless you are willing to take action into your own hands and deal with the people that commit these crimes ie k.p.s gill