Sinister: God, Our Commander And Cheif

[Sinister]

To kharkoo,

do you always over-assess everything? lol

Go ahead use gurbani...but you have to remember the gurbani that you read and interpret is already opinionated (especially if its coming from a guy named kharkoo) so in essence it cannot obtain the title gurbani but "personal gurbani"...which is why I asked peopled to refrain from using quotes and stating "our guru's said.....".

START WITH "I THINK....." RATHER THAN "GURU JI SAID........."

YOU VIOLATED MY FIRST RULE ...YOU WENT ONTO THE SECOND QUESTION WITHOUT ANSWERING THE FIRST. I WILL HAVE TO IGNORE THE REST OF YOUR REPLY.

LET ME START WITH A SIMPLER QUESTION FOR JUST FOR YOU :TH: ?

WHY SHOULD YOU AND MYSELF PRAISE GOD, AND FOR WHAT REASONS SHOULD WE PRAISE HIM, FOR LIFE, OR FOR DEATH? (HERES A QUESTION THAT YOU CANT OVER ASSESS)

PERSONAL OPINION IS ACCEPTED, WILL NOT DEBATE WITH YOU ON IT.

To Humble Kaur;

"To obtain salvation, liberation and eternal bliss, we should arise during Amrit Vayla, as this is the time that our mind has not been poisoned by the world yet, and do Nitnem."

So you beleive it is our goal in life to acheive salvation?

what about if i told you that my goal in life is NOT to "obtain salvation, liberation and eternal bliss" but just to learn where you (and others) stand on certain questions and dilemmas. Is that sinful? Is that mockery? would you ever be able to show respect to someone who haas made this conscious decision?

What about if I knew what type of salvation/liberation existed and i simply chose not to take it! after all everything in life is choice?

what about if I told you, I wanted to be punished, to come back as a cow or a bee and deliver a vital service to humanity (ei: provide it with milk and honey). Am I good or bad?

?????????????????????????????????????????????????????poisoned? WOW! so your a different person during the morning than you are at night? We should read gurbani in the morning when our minds are in a sleep deprived numb state in which they cant think and question? sounds kinda cultish to me. HYPNOSIS is your remedy to my questions? (lol sorry for the lash out but i found that very very funny...what can you learn in the morning that limits you at night or during the rest of the day when you are fully conscious?)

You danced around most of my questions

YOU veiw life as;

humanity would not be here if it weren't for gods grace.

OTHERS Veiw life as;

Gods entire existance is co-dependant upon ours. If humanity falls, so does god.

What is god without humanity? would god have existed without humanity? would animals go around preaching and praying? Animals supplement humanity and act as things that ensure our survival and along with it gods.

Whats your "opinion" on such matters and how do you in your mind make the decision on what to follow...or does someone make that decision for you?

Are we the only investment that god has in his portfolio?

WHY IS IT SO HARD TO STATE OPINION ON THIS TOPIC, WE ARE QUICK TO DO SO ON ANY OTHER ISSUE DISCUSSED ON THIS SITE!

START WITH "I THINK....." RATHER THAN "GURU JI SAID........."

AM I THE ONLY SIKH WHO HAS ASKED THESE QUESTIONS. DOES IS MAKE ME A BAD SIKH TO ASK THESE QUESTIONS? NOT ONCE IN MY FIRST POST DID I MAKE A STATEMENT.....THEY WERE ALL QUESTIONS!

[Sinister]

TO MS 514

"Who are the actors to question the Writer of the Play?"

The playwright must be questioned; it’s the only way the characters within the play can fully understand their roles.

Thanks for the book link, ill try to read it in the near future, can I print it ?(its not copyright or anything)

[ms514]

Sat Sri Akal:

Sinister Sahib, feel free to print, but please do treat with respect, as it does contain Gurbani verses.

Questioning Guru Sahib...well keep trying, perhaps Guru Sahib will answer. Do Ardaas to Guru Sahib. Ardaas is the means of communication with the Guru. Be direct and ask, but ask if you truly want to know and with utmost sincerity.

Why praise?

Gurbani states that the Almighty is carefree and does not require humanity. The Almighty is stated to have been in deep meditation on the Self for many many ages before the Universe was formed. No religion was present, no means of praise were present, no religions were present and nothing except theAlmighty was present. Was the Almighty dying of Attention Deficit Disorder that It created humanity and finally got the attention that was so justly deserved? Hardly. If the Almighty was so attention starved, then what was the need to create such a variety of humans, many of which openly curse the Almighty? Would the world not be one homogenous creation who utters the Almighty's praise every instant? Is the Omnipotent Lord so pathetic that it cannot exist without its own praise?

The idea that the Almighty needs to be praised comes from the notion that it is we as humans that can give something to the Almighty by that praise. It is our perception that the Almighty is somehow as weak and emotionally unstable as a human. It is a common human trait to personify everything that it cannot full understand. Gurbani's purpose is not to praise and get something in return for that praise. The Almighty is not deprived of anything. What Gurbani is rather is a catalyst to dissolve the ego, the biggest roadblock to the Supreme Understanding. The very Gurmantar, which a Sikh is to meditate upon and recite, is Waheguru. Even the Gurmantar is centered on shifting the attention of this monkey-mind that jumps everywhere and anywhere and demands attention at all times to the Infinite Almighty.

Hence why Bhai Gurdas Sahib states that Waheguru Is The Gurmantar, By Which Ego Is Lost. Gurbani is in essence a full expansion of this concept and goes on to explain what is the state of humanity, what is the purpose of this birth and by which means that purpose (TO REMEMBER NOT PRAISE THE ALMIGHTY AKA. THAT INFINITE SELF THAT RESIDES IN ALL) may be achieved. It is not a question of praise, but rememberance. As Gurbani states, we are ideally the brides of the Almighty. A devoted bride will remember the husband and his good traits, his love, his tenderness and his character. It is not praise for the sake of material gain that the bride does this, nor to satisfy the insecure Husband Lord who is ever afflicted by lack of self confidence, but it is to remember the Almighty Husband. So the Sikh meditates upon Gurbani for the same purpose. It is the rememberance that will push the ego-mind away and make the Sikh-bride remember her Almighty Husband, which is with her at all times, but has been clouded by that ego-mind.

Gurbani also contains quotes that state many incarnations were spent in ignorance, running around in incarnations of animals, plants, kings, householders and finally, after everything and being sick of the world and tired of that endless cycle, there was but no choice to rest at the feet of the Almighty. They tried to seek and gain lasting happiness from all other means, but finally, they came to the realization that the Supreme Happiness is to realize the Almighty and the Self, which is the Almighty. For it is the Almighty that is carefree and content...to become carefree and content, a person must realize the Almighty inside and embrace that being, forsaking the materialistic-minded ego-mind.

This is also why the concept of Kirpa is inherent in Sikhism. It is with the Kirpa of the Almighty that a Sikh will come to rest at the feet of the Almighty. Otherwise, many come, many go, many ask questions unendingly and many simply remain ignorant. That is the play of the Almighty. It is by Almighty's Grace/Kirpa that the human is able to realize that there is something more than the materialistic, animal life that the majority of the world (myself included) is living in. This is a concept that can be understood, but to accept and to live in accordance with it is something that requires Guru's Kirpa. Thus, the actors that are made to realize the path to the Almighty live on faith, not scientific proof. To them, all is false except the Almighty and they stake their entire being and breath on that with Supreme Faith.

Bhul Chuk Maaf.

[ParwinderSingh]

You are running out of ideas to what you can critisise, the translation wont be 100% correct thats how youve been able to make an issue out of nothing, its better to read it in the original language. until you do that all your arguements are invalid .

Heres a translation I found @

http://www.sikhs.org/english/frame.html

This is a translation of the first few lines of Jap Ji

By thinking, He cannot be reduced to thought, even by thinking hundreds of thousands of times. By remaining silent, inner silence is not obtained, even by remaining lovingly absorbed deep within. The hunger of the hungry is not appeased, even by piling up loads of worldly goods. Hundreds of thousands of clever tricks, but not even one of them will go along with you in the end. So how can you become truthful? And how can the veil of illusion be torn away? O Nanak, it is written that you shall obey the Hukam of His Command, and walk in the Way of His Will. || 1 || By His Command, bodies are created; His Command cannot be described. By His Command, souls come into being; by His Command, glory and greatness are obtained. By His Command, some are high and some are low; by His Written Command, pain and pleasure are obtained. Some, by His Command, are blessed and forgiven; others, by His Command, wander aimlessly forever. Everyone is subject to His Command; no one is beyond His Command. O Nanak, one who understands His Command, does not speak in ego. || 2 || Some sing of His Power-who has that Power? Some sing of His Gifts, and know His Sign and Insignia. Some sing of His Glorious Virtues, Greatness and Beauty. Some sing of knowledge obtained of Him, through difficult philosophical studies. Some sing that He fashions the body, and then again reduces it to dust. Some sing that He takes life away, and then again restores it.

Page 2

Some sing that He seems so very far away. Some sing that He watches over us, face to face, ever-present. There is no shortage of those who preach and teach. Millions upon millions offer millions of sermons and stories. The Great Giver keeps on giving, while those who receive grow weary of receiving. Throughout the ages, consumers consume. The Commander, by His Command, leads us to walk on the Path. O Nanak, He blossoms forth, Carefree and Untroubled. || 3 || True is the Master, True is His Name-speak it with infinite love. People beg and pray, "Give to us, give to us", and the Great Giver gives His Gifts.

.............................So what offering can we place before Him, by which we might see the Darbaar of His Court? What words can we speak to evoke His Love? In the Amrit Vaylaa, the ambrosial hours before dawn, chant the True Name, and contemplate His Glorious Greatness. By the karma of past actions, the robe of this physical body is obtained. By His Grace, the Gate of Liberation is found.

First Question:

Is this a good translation? Is the scholar pure in the message?

If you think no then do not proceed to the second question and simply state where and how the scholar is off his mark.

Second Question:

do our guru's go on to state the purpose of life and why god created life? In a way they do. The purpose the scholar said is to praise and never forget god. Live by gods teachings and practice his "WILL", through a mandate.

Now,

my question lies therein:

Did God create us so that we can praise him and beg from him? (From the proof above, we see the emergeance of a slave mentallity in our religion, where a human is reduced to a corrupt, insensitive fool that is blinded. If your read the words above you will see that Sikhi is an all out attack on humanity with the utmost hostility). Does God want us to beg from him? Why does He keep answering the calls of the beggars?

GOD GAVE US LIFE, HE OWES US SOMETHING IN RETURN, DONT HUMANS HAVE A RIGHT TO BEG! WHEN A CHILD BEGS HIS MOTHER FOR COMFORT AND SUPPORT ITS NORMAL, BUT WHEN WE BEG GOD FOR OUR SHARE THEN ALL OF A SUDDEN ITS SIN? A MOTHER ALWAYS CARES FOR HER CHILDREN, SHOULDNT GOD BE OBLIGED TO DO THE SAME? DO WE THANK OUR MOTHER WHEN WE ARE INFANTS...DO WE PRAISE HER NAME AND GIVE THANKS...SHE PUT US IN THIS WORLD AND SHOULDNT SHE LOOK OVER US AND CARE FOR US?

Khanda question: the double edged sword Question:

Why would God create beings if all he wanted was complete despostism over our souls? Is God that insecure? Does he need the praise and small utterances of thanks of mere human souls just to remind him of his greatness? or do we do these small utterances of thanks to remind ourselves of his greatness; either way the question rounds about to WHY? *why does god want us to remember and not forget his greatness?*

Why should we praise God? sure he's given us life, a universe and a mind. OHH but what a corrupt mind he has given us! A mind that is torn apart to peices if it thinks too hard, a mind that is so fragile that if it reads a few words it gets pushed from one pole to the other.

Why give us life, what purpose does god see in this. Is he playing games in which we are his toys, is god toiling with us? Is not god torturing us? Is he not making us jump through hoops so that we can end our cycle of birth and re-birth?

Is life a gift from god? was it his intention to create life or was it all by chance (deism)?

Until we answer these questions, religion will continue to face the possiblity of extinction...because it will no longer serve its purpose...the very first purpose it set out to develop....the meaning of life!

this argument, we are aware is shrouded in pessimism and skepticism, none-the- less its a valid objective questioning for such a forum. It can only be answered via opinion. I am not asking for anyone to describe God, But merely think for yourselves of his intentions when he created humanity.

Our understanding is that for every action their is an intention.....I know I have applied that theory to God....but we must (god must have created life because he had an intention or drive to do something). Is this argument valid? Or is God something that is  without purpose, direction and intention.

I do not want to inflame everyone with rage! Just get out of your seats and think the unthinkable (or think that which is without answer)...it may enrich our lives. Or is this type of thinking sinful? should we remain silent on such issues, supress them into the deep voids of our mind and continue to praise the unknown, the unintentional, the ultimate torturer, our very own "commander and cheif"....GOD?

Question 3:

Should we praise God? or should god praise us? He gives our existance meaning and purpose but doesn't humanity return the favour?

What would God be without Humanity? How boring would this world be without Evil?

How would we tell between good and evil if everyone did good and evil ceased to exist?

Doesn't god need evil in order to exist and give purpose to his existance?

To the sangat:

No ones right or wrong on this post, just add your opinion to all of my questions and it will be accepted without debate. But I ask now that you do not turn to gurbani for answers (I dont think you will find answers their...i could be wrong) but turn to the constructs of your minds that have been developed from reciting preaching and practicing gurbani.

cheers everyone.

135952[/snapback]

[humble_kaur]

Fateh,

Sinister Veer Ji, once again, I request that you actually take the time to read and understand Gurbani. Experience it. If you remain ignorant and skeptical towards it, then how can you appreciate any answers we give you?

AM I THE ONLY SIKH WHO HAS ASKED THESE QUESTIONS. DOES IS MAKE ME A BAD SIKH TO ASK THESE QUESTIONS? NOT ONCE IN MY FIRST POST DID I MAKE A STATEMENT.....THEY WERE ALL QUESTIONS!

Questions are always welcomed, like I have stated to you many times before, as well as many others have, this is a learning process. But, one question I pose to you is: Do you ever take into consideration the advice we give you?

You call yourself a Sikh, yet you don’t want to follow the Sikhi Jeevan. I think you are very confused. You say that you never made any statements in your post; I suggest you go back and read it. You boldly accused God of several things.

So you beleive it is our goal in life to acheive salvation?

First of all, let me define salvation for you:

=>the saving of somebody or something from harm, destruction, difficulty, or failure

=>somebody or something that protects or delivers somebody or something else from harm, destruction, difficulty, or failure

In my opinion, once a Sikh achieves salvation, they live to save others. I believe you are stuck in the notion of what Christians believed: believe in Jesus Christ for he sacrificed his life for the deliverance from sin or consequences of sin for all humanity. But that is not my belief. My belief is in order to achieve salvation is to live free of all vices, or at least try to. Living a life of truth and love, which help in eliminating the five vices that affect every one of us. How? By using Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji as a guide.

Guru Ji is not saying that we need to disassociate with the world in order to achieve salvation. They rejected such doings. They didn’t say to isolate yourself in the forests or mountains, remain hungry, follow rituals such as bathing in sacred waters, wear certain colors, or mark your body with certain colors. They told us to achieve salvation, among others, here and now. Sikhi states that the human form, in body, mind and spirit is the most advanced and perfect machinery for attaining salvation. This leads me to your next point:

what about if i told you that my goal in life is NOT to "obtain salvation, liberation and eternal bliss" but just to learn where you (and others) stand on certain questions and dilemmas. Is that sinful? Is that mockery? would you ever be able to show respect to someone who haas made this conscious decision?

What about if I knew what type of salvation/liberation existed and i simply chose not to take it! after all everything in life is choice?

If your goal in life is not to obtain salvation, liberation and eternal bliss, then that is your choice. I cannot force you to change your views, instead I will respect your views, and I will state mine. I can only make you understand my point of view, but not force it upon you. It is entirely your choice. If you have questions of Sikhi, then you have every right to state them. But, if you question Sikhi, then on what basis do you want me to answer your questions without using Gurbani?

Yes I agree with you, everything in life is a choice. Whether it is good or bad, it is YOUR decision. We can only assist or direct you to make the right choice, but in the end, the decision is up to you.

what about if I told you, I wanted to be punished, to come back as a cow or a bee and deliver a vital service to humanity (ei: provide it with milk and honey). Am I good or bad?

Personally, I don’t believe in reincarnation. According to Sikh Faith, there is no such thing. What we are living today is our heaven and hell. If you live by following Guru Ji’s Words, then you are in heaven, and if you choose to live by ignoring Guru Ji’s Words, then you are living in hell.

kbIr Awsw krIAY rwm kI AvrY Aws inrws ]

Kabeer, place your hopes in the Lord; other hopes lead to despair.

nrik prih qy mwneI jo hir nwm audws ]95]

Those who dissociate themselves from the Lord's Name - when they fall into hell, then they will

appreciate its value. ||95||

If you live according to the eight virtues, then how could you possibly live in hell?

Wisdom: It can be achieved by hearing good, thinking good and doing good. A man of wisdom tries to achieve a high moral standard in his life and interaction with others. According to Sikhism, the first step to wisdom is to consider oneself as an ignorant person who has to learn a lot in life.

Truthful Living: This is more than 'truth'. It means living according to the way of God i.e. the thoughts should match the words that a person speaks and his actions should also match his words.

Justice: means freedom and equal opportunities for all. Respect for the rights of others and strict absence of attempts to exploit a fellow being.

Temperance: means self control which has to be developed through meditation and prayers. A Sikh has to banish evil thoughts from his mind by constantly repeating Gods name and reciting prayers.

Patience: implies a high level of tolerance and empathy for others. It requires control over ones ego and willingness to overlook another's weakness or mistakes.

Courage: means bravery i.e. absence of fear. It is the ability to stake ones life for ones convictions and for saving others from injustice or cruelty.

Humility: is a deliberate denial of pleasure at one's own praise and admiration. It means underplaying ones own strengths and respecting the abilities of others.

Contentment: means refraining from worldly fears and submitting oneself to the will of God. The typical worldly fears can be fear of death, poverty, disrespect and defeat. It is this virtue that has given the Sikhs the moral strength to withstand the various atrocities committed on their community in the last three centuries.

People often accuse God for what is happening in their lives. If you lie, and you fret everyday that someone may find out, you live in this constant state of worrying, then is that your own act, or the act of God? For He said to live a life of Truth. If you were to rob a person, a bank, and get caught and put in jail, then is that your own act, or the act of God? For He said to live a life of Justice. How can your mind be at ease knowing that you have lied, or you have robbed someone. You would be in constant torment. Even if you live a life of comfort, the idea that you have done something wrong will keep on haunting you. I think this punishment on its own is worse kind you can ever endure. This is living hell. If you incorporate the eight virtues in your life, then how can we suffer and be led astray. This is living in heaven. No one can save you, but can only assist you in trying to live a virtuous life.

You wanting to come back as a cow or bee, to serve humanity, that is your choice. But like I said, I don’t believe in reincarnation. As stated before, Sikhi states that the human form, in body, mind and spirit is the most advanced and perfect machinery for attaining salvation.

?????????????????????????????????????????????????????poisoned? WOW! so your a different person during the morning than you are at night? We should read gurbani in the morning when our minds are in a sleep deprived numb state in which they cant think and question? sounds kinda cultish to me. HYPNOSIS is your remedy to my questions?

Like I stated prior to writing the translations, I am learning, and my translations may not be correct, it is my understanding. If you beg to differ, please do. I welcome your views. What I was referring to is in early morning we often have less disturbances or less distractions. So, in this context, what I mean by “poisoned” is that we have not yet had an evil or corrupting influence from somebody or something, that we have not been effected to perform devoted seva to our Guru Ji. Therefore, our concentration is much more intense, without outside influence. By getting up at Amrit Vela, you start your day off by remembering God, therefore, every action that you do, it will virtuous. It is not to say that those who do not start their days off by remembering God do not do good. But, it is a constant reminder. You should remember God every second throughout the day. That he is with you at all times. I agree for some it is difficult to get up at Amrit Vela due to work, or other circumstances.

I’m sorry, where have I stated that hypnosis is my remedy to your questions. You say that our minds are sleep deprived, in a numb state, where you can’t think and question during the morning. Well, in your state, what difference does it make? You have yet to appreciate Guru Ji’s Divine Words. You throw question after question without taking into consideration any of the answers or advice we have given you. Why don’t you try it and see if it makes a difference instead of just speaking of it. Experience it first before you jump to your baseless accusations or assumptions. It doesn’t take much to speak or write what you think, but it is much more respected if you actually act upon it. Like they say, “Be a man of your word!”

You danced around most of my questions

Well, I have not danced around any of your questions. It is you that has been quite entertaining in dancing around the many questions that have been posed to you. Do you fear that you have no answers yourself? Only questions, as seen several times, to which you don’t really take the answers into consideration. Why don’t you tell us your answers to your own questions, if ours seem far-fetched?

YOU veiw life as;

humanity would not be here if it weren't for gods grace.

OTHERS Veiw life as;

Gods entire existance is co-dependant upon ours. If humanity falls, so does god.

What is god without humanity? would god have existed without humanity? would animals go around preaching and praying? Animals supplement humanity and act as things that ensure our survival and along with it gods.

Simple answer to your question. God created humanity; He can dispose of humanity. He is the Creator. He was here long before humans even stepped foot on this earth, and He will be here long afterwards. Let me ask you, what is humanity without God? What humanity would exist without God? You talk about animals preaching and praying. How are we different from animals? We, who ourselves do not meditate upon and appreciate God’s Words, does it make us any superior to animals? Look at the actions of people around you that don’t meditate on God’s Words, they seem very animal like to me.

Whats your "opinion" on such matters and how do you in your mind make the decision on what to follow...or does someone make that decision for you?

My opinions are based on morality. Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is a guide that I use to live and experience this morality. My decisions, in the end, are my own. How I live my life is entirely up to me. I don’t need someone to grab my finger and lead the way. I chose to live and experience a Sikhi Jeevan, and I am absolutely content with it. Are you content with your life?

START WITH "I THINK....." RATHER THAN "GURU JI SAID........."

To start off by saying 'I think' means you are unsure of where you stand in your views, in your opinions, in your life. Like I stated in my previous post, if you accuse God, then He should answer you.

Bhul Chuk Maaf

[S1ngh]

Sinister you are not the only one who is asking the questions above. Lots of ppls kept asking these questions in our history and till today they are stuck with those questions. Sometime you have let your ego go and accept the way it is. PPls who do their own research in private are smart not the one who boost online forums or in public.

[jagjit_waheguru]

waheguru ji kekhalsa, waheguru ji ke fateh

Pyare jio, with all due respect to all the Gursikhs on this forum. I would advise you to put your questions on www.tapoban.org messageboard aswell. Purely because there are Gursikhs on there who are knowedgable on gurbani grammer, more than proably here.

As far as you questions, most have been answered. But I would point some things out.

We have no slave mentality to Gurbani abyass. A slave is forced to do something with no return or personal gain. Doing abyass of Gurbani is about praising and sharing the virtues of Waheguru. By seva and simran, one reduces our negative virtues, and expands our positive virtues. This takes us and humanity closer waheguru. Hence there is an exchange, but the benefit is to us, not waheguru as he is beyond that. Neither is Sikhism about bargaining or points sytems. This bargain in the House of nanak is a Saccha Suada, (true bargian) one in which we as souls benefit.

Pyare jio, I have mentioned before to you, that evil does not exist in sikhi. We do not accept the concept of evil. Instead we accept the concept of Bhana and 5 vikaars.

Our lives are a play, in which we play various roles, while being the same soul. We can be a husband, an father, a son, a villian, a hero, a wise man and a fool. Throughout this life, our aim is to break the cycle of life and death, and to share the virtues of Akaal with ourselves, and then with humanity.

God did not create us, because he has an ego and wants us to praise him all the time. We are really not praising him as such, but his virtues, and sharing them. Waheguru is beyond praise and ego. Neither does he need us to sustain him, but we need him to sustain us.

Where I think you are making a mistake in understanding this. You are considering God and humanity as separate entities. But Waheguru is in humanity and everything else. "ram naam, sabh hai ram nama".

So how can waheguru and humanity be opposite. They are one and the same.

I hope this makes sense. If not please question further.

waheguru ji ke khalsa, waheguru ji ke fateh

[Sinister]

Am I content with my life?

Heck No....I dont think I will ever be absolutely content, even if I do practice sikhi. Do I beleive YOU are content with your life?.....I dunno....Is it possible to be absolutely content with your life? I mean whats the point of living and acting if everyone is perfectly content with how things are.... why get up every morning...why put food in your mouth?

What drives you forward to excel at what you do and work harder if you are content with your current performance (be it in anything)....shouldn't it be our goal to excel in certain feilds and gain expertise?

I Asked Kharkoo this question but havent really gotten a reply:

think about it...If a poor person shows contention with his/her current state....what will motivate him/her to break out of poverty? Or is best that He/She stay in the state that they are currently in?

Again most of us speek from the comfort of our living rooms...but what about the people that dont have them? how can they possibly be content with what they have...when what they have is absolutely nothing!

Sincerely, do you not long for anyting in your current life? are you content with what you have?

If everyone was content with their lives then what would be the point of electing a government? of democracy?

With great honesty I will have to say that not alot of people are not content, including me.

do you never long for more?...truthfully I dont think a human can acheive this state...I think a human can only be content once their dead (lol).

I know that I will always have these silly questions and doubts deep within my mind no matter how much i experience or put faith forward.....

thanks for your reply...at least we got somewhere.

cheers.

[humble_kaur]

Fateh Veer Ji,

I think this topic has made a slight twist!!!! Oops!

Do I beleive YOU are content with your life?.....I dunno....Is it possible to be absolutely content with your life? I mean whats the point of living and acting if everyone is perfectly content with how things are.... why get up every morning...why put food in your mouth?

Being content with my life doesn’t mean that I have stopped living my life. I still work to put food on the table, pay bills, etc. I work enough to accommodate the things I need. Being content doesn’t mean that I hibernate in my room, even though sleeping in does sound nice on those rainy days! I work for the basic necessities in life.

What drives you forward to excel at what you do and work harder if you are content with your current performance (be it in anything)....shouldn't it be our goal to excel in certain feilds and gain expertise?

Society is ever changing. To keep pace with the society, one does have to keep educating themselves. You can excel in many things, and still be content. Just because I am happy with my life doesn’t mean that I won’t strive to excel in bettering my knowledge of Gurbani, getting promoted at work, or being happy at home.

But whatever you’re striving for, just make sure it’s by honest means. As the Reht Maryada says, “The true Sikh of the Guru shall make an honest living by lawful work”. Earn your livelihood through honest means. A person’s earnings, however large or small, should come from honest means.

...If a poor person shows contention with his/her current state....what will motivate him/her to break out of poverty? Or is best that He/She stay in the state that they are currently in?

If a poor person can show contentment in their current state, then they have accepted what little they have and make the most of it. If they have the drive to succeed and break out of poverty, then that is no different from myself trying to get promoted to a higher position.

Again most of us speek from the comfort of our living rooms...but what about the people that dont have them? how can they possibly be content with what they have...when what they have is absolutely nothing!

I agree with you that I am speaking from the comfort of my home, and there are many out there that don’t even have shelter, or food for three meals a day. I have never been in that state so to answer this point of yours would seem unfair. But, if your spirits are high, and you have faith in God, regardless of what situation you are in, you should be thankful, and accept the Will of God.

Sincerely, do you not long for anyting in your current life? are you content with what you have?

Everyone has dreams and hopes. I have dreams and hopes as well, and to some extent, still do. But I don’t dwell on them too much. I have adopted this philosophy to forget the past, stop thinking about the future, and concentrate on the day at hand. Before I was never content with anything, my family, my career etc. But once I accepted everything as God’s Will, I have found peace with myself and my environment.

I had fallen under the misconception that whenever I did something good and gained something from it, it was all my doing, therefore I should be recognized for it. But when something went wrong and I lost everything, the first thing I would do was blame God. Once you start realizing that everything you have are God’s Gifts, God’s Blessings, then you begin to appreciate everything you have. I don’t worry about failure anymore. I have trust in God’s larger plan.

If everyone was content with their lives then what would be the point of electing a government? of democracy?

This is a good point. In the days of our Guru, there were monarchies that ruled the world, just as we have governments today. People let their minds get the best of themselves at times. They let the five vices overcome them. To maintain peace in the world monarchies and governments were put in place. Not all give fair justice, but it keeps society in check.

With great honesty I will have to say that not alot of people are content, including me.

do you never long for more?...truthfully I dont think a human can acheive this state...

No. A lot of people are not content with their lives because they are always trying to compete with others. Who has the bigger house, the most expensive car, a well paying job, or the better body. In all this, they forget that true happiness lies within. You can never be content if you’re constantly trying to be better than the other. When a child is born, the only thing they want is milk. They don’t care about the clothes that you put on them, what their bank balances are. But once that child gets older, they like certain types of foods, they need to dress a certain way, and they have to drive fancy cars. They can never be content because there will always be someone that dresses better, or drives the better car. But if you accept what you have, and you are happy with it, then regardless of what the other person has, you will still appreciate everything you have. You become reasonably happy and satisfied with the way things are. You accept or make do with everything you have rather than making more demands. Hence, you become content.

I know that I will always have these silly questions and doubts deep within my mind no matter how much i experience or put faith forward.....

This is exactly why you have these questions, because you’re faith is not strong. I didn’t have faith in God at all. I blamed him for everything that went wrong in my life. But, once I started to read and understand Gurbani, I started to experience it. The first time I did, I couldn’t control the tears coming down my face. I couldn’t explain what was happening to me. My emotions were out of control. You have to have the hunger, the thirst. Once again, I will say to you, instead of questioning everything, keep an open mind. Read what people have been writing to you in answer to your questions with respect because they are truly trying to help you. I gained a lot of knowledge by reading many of the responses to your questions. Do Nitnem. Read a Shabad, understand it, and try to incorporate it in your life. Trust me, it works!!!!