After Khalistan

[LostSoul]

"According to a survey taken about 4 years ago India ranked 97 out of hundred. 100 was the worst. Kuwait has only oil but not a single drop of water. India on the other hand has almost no oil. So not every country has to have everything in order to survive."

Could you post that survey?(defintion of a survey;A gathering of a sample of data or opinions considered to be representative of a whole. We shouldnt use opinions only factual based items)India has grown by leaps and bounds in the past four years, we should use current events. Kuwait has so much money they can afford to purify the sea water, or just import it, and they have alot of underground well's, lol they have more than a drop of water.

" One time I went to Mervyns and picked up a t-shirt that was made in India and it cost about $40. Guess what? These t-shirts came from Punjab and the guy who ships ‘em out gets $3 a piece. Indonesia is a third world country but Nike costs $15 a pair. Countries may start out poor but with better educated leaders and with the help of people anything is possible"

These companies are individually owned, profits dont go to the Government, T-shirts cant be the basis of our economy.

"Army is needed for sure but that doesn’t prove anything. Every Sikh is a saint soldier. There are about 600,000 retired generals in Punjab who can give training."

I think 600,000 retired GENERALS is a bloated number, the army doesnt have even a 100,000 Generals, and as Mehtab Singh said, whose to say that they would even support us? Theyre living off of Government pensions, and Government given land. How many young men would go off to fight for an under funded army, when theyre families are already poor?

"Explain more? Pipelines for what purpose?"

Oil Pipelines

"The above 18 countries are landlocked and yet surviving. The question is of survival. If these countries can survive then so can we. Just look at them and tell me how many are first world countries? We may not have any control over sea ports but if you know how to do business you can negotiate and use sea ports"

Majority of those listed are very poor countries. Negotiate with who for control of sea ports? India?

"Clearly you do not know anything about Sikh politics. Did Guru Gobind Singh Ji not have morals? Did other gursikhs not have moral? Do you really believe that there is not a single politician in the world who has no moral character whatsoever? You really need to put some rational thoughts in your comments"

I thought I was rational here, no need to say that. I dont think our Guru was a Politician, or do you think otherwise? I can just take a look at all the politicians now, from the Gurudwaras to the ones in India, and I can honestly say, no I havent seen one who power hasnt corrupted.

"Never implied anywhere in the article"

And I quote your article again brother..."people who commit adultery, smoke, drink alcohol etc. will not be allowed to live there"...I suggest you use my whole quotes instead of partial ones.

"Show me where in Quran it is written that Muslims are obligated to eat meat? Muslims mostly eat beef but look at what happens to those who kill cows in India. Is that religious freedom? Do muslims not eat vegetarian food in Pakistan?

Again, does bible require Christians to drink wine?"

As Mehtab Singh said Bakhra Eid, feast of meat. They are allowed to eat meat however will we force vegetarianism on them? Also yes Christians are allowed to drink wine/alcohol as well. They use wine during Sunday mass, for communion, i.e, the "blood" of Christ.

"If people could live under rule of Sikhs in the past then surely they can do the same in the present. Our country will be based on Miri Piri."

Raja Ranjit Singh actually was very open minded and allowed people to bask in religious freedom, therefore yes Muslims/Hindus were very happy.

"Though East Punjab belongs to us but I do not think attacking and forceful take over is the right way. When people in Delhi asked Bhai Jassa Singh Ji to leave they left because Sikhs did not want to rule the area by force. But the Gurdwaras will certainly be ours. We can negotiate with Pakistani government and have control over our Gurdwaras and they can have control over their mosques. Pakistani government already helps us way more than GOI. Their capital is not in East Punjab."

How does it belong to us? Every Punjabi is entitled to Punjab not Sikhs in specific, Punjabi Muslims outnumber us dramatically. You said in your article that, and I quote again..."Pakistani Punjab will be part of Khalistan as well because the whole Punjab belongs to Sikhs. Sikhs have beaten Pakistan twice already so there would be no problem defeating it one more time"...your suggesting an invasion of Pakistan as well there. Actally I think your mistaken again brother Bilja ISLAMABAD is the capital of Pakistan, and if we pull out a map we can clearly see that its right there in Punjab, I thought we would take your advice and think rationally!

"No doubt weapons are necessary to fight the war but at the end weapons do not make you victorious."

Actually they do, no matter how much heart we have a few bullets and guns wont stand against tanks and planes. Warfare has changed, from miles away with a touch of a button missiles are launched now. All these things need to be taken into consideration before launching such a great task, such as a birth of a nation, looking forward to your reply Brother :lol:

[gupt_paapi]

1 question..

..WHY?!

[LostSoul]

^

Why what?

[mann_kaum_layee_qurbaan]

im sick of this why khalistan, what after khalistan, tell me what's going to happen after sikhs were boiled alive in police stations, had their private parts electrocuted and women raped in front of their families. what is going to happen after hundreds of thousands of people have been liquidated? Did the sikh nation produce over 200,000 terrorists which the GOI had to exterminate?! what is going to happen after all this oh mighty scholars? do we go on like nothing happened? Hindus cannot forget about a 16th century mandir but what about 15 20 years ago for us? we forgot about partition, we forgot about the punjabi suba movement, now what 1984, delhi pogroms?! are we fools or something are we jsut supposed to take it like sheeps at the butcher? what about all this scholar sahibs?! what is going to happen after all this?

forget about after khalistan, what is going to happen after your people were liquidated? you ever thought about this? all you people worrying about the ecenomies and money and inustries, what does that do for a mother who lost four, five sons? yeah i live in the west, but i have a heart. have some feelings man, have a heart. every time we do ardaas we pra for the people who gave shaheedi for the sewa of our gurughars, were any of us doing sewa for the destroyed akaal takhat sahib in 1984? how many of us left our families to do thsi sewa and end up dead in the ravi river? who do we pray for in ardaas? all those shaheed pariwaars are the true reason any of us are proud to be sikh.

stop all these worthless threads about what will happen after khalistan, save your turban now.

[Bijla Singh]

Then why do you say that Pakistan supplied the Kharkoo Singhs with ammunition? Why do we hear stories of Hindus who took Amrit and became Singhs and joined the Babbars, some even attained shaheedi?

Singh Ji, hindus and muslims joined the movement after taking Amrit and thus they became Sikhs and belonged to Sikh community only. how many hindus and muslims have died fighting for Khalistan while staying in their own religion?

A bunch of hill rajas vs mughals is no way to brand all Hindus as traitors and all Muslims as your buddies.

Read Tabay Ros Jageyo and you will see it wasn't only hill kings who betrayed us. Punjabi Suba and 1984 are recent examples of their betrayal.

Sri Darbar Sahib is not in Pakistan.

How many Gurdwaras have been attacked by Pakistani govt. in similar fashion of blue star?

They are all with a vision, which is why the economy as well as the GDP has grown by 8% just this year.

The govt or the people? and Sikhs have no vision? I repeat my question: is every person in UAE an economist? all are in different areas. so do not expect every Khalistani to have a degree in economy so he could answer your questions.

Why you wanna be like Hindus now? Whats the point of comparing Sikhs with Hindus if we are so dead bent on being different in everything we do?

I don't. I only gave an example. I know not every american knows how USA is being run and what economic policies govt is using. Not every hindu know how Indian is being run (according to policies) so don't expect every Khalistani to know everything.

These companies are individually owned, profits dont go to the Government, T-shirts cant be the basis of our economy.

It was an example to show that companies do do business outside of Punjab. It is not like we will be shipping out t-shirts only.

Majority of those listed are very poor countries. Negotiate with who for control of sea ports? India?

I know but still surviving. The question for us is of survival. Do you expect Khalistan to become a first world country right after independence? It takes time to build the economy. All economic policies are considered after the country becomes free. Laws change over time so what we consider now may not be applicable after 10 years. New methods are always invented and new solutions are sought.

And I quote your article again brother..."people who commit adultery, smoke, drink alcohol etc. will not be allowed to live there"...I suggest you use my whole quotes instead of partial ones.

I gave an answer to mehtab Singh. There will be some restrcitions. A country is never perfect for everyone. Some may like it some may not.

How does it belong to us? Every Punjabi is entitled to Punjab not Sikhs in specific, Punjabi Muslims outnumber us dramatically.

1961 census says otherwise. Hindus have abandoned Punjabi.

Pakistani Punjab - I have already given an answer and clearly stated that attacking is not the way.

War - India cannot drop nuclear missils on Punjab. Only weapons do not make you victorious but help you become victorious and that is only if you know how to fight and if you are willing to die and sacrifice. History shows us that.

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

[LostSoul]

"It was an example to show that companies do do business outside of Punjab. It is not like we will be shipping out t-shirts only."

They can do business because they have ships to transport them to other countries. Which seaport will these manufacturing plants use when we become landlocked?

"I know but still surviving. The question for us is of survival. Do you expect Khalistan to become a first world country right after independence? It takes time to build the economy. All economic policies are considered after the country becomes free. Laws change over time so what we consider now may not be applicable after 10 years. New methods are always invented and new solutions are sought."

Barely surviving off of international aid, and still their masses go hungry and die. It shouldnt be a matter of just "getting by". We should have a full scope of vision if we are to get this nation, not think short term.

"I gave an answer to mehtab Singh. There will be some restrcitions. A country is never perfect for everyone. Some may like it some may not."

Actually that response was for me, if you scroll down and check the post you'll see. I had asked why in your article you will kick out anybody who smokes, and drinks. In your line of thinking we will have another huge wave of refugess, and more lives put through turmoil.

"1961 census says otherwise. Hindus have abandoned Punjabi.Pakistani Punjab - I have already given an answer and clearly stated that attacking is not the way. War - India cannot drop nuclear missils on Punjab. Only weapons do not make you victorious but help you become victorious and that is only if you know how to fight and if you are willing to die and sacrifice. History shows us that."

Actually no, Hindus form a strong majority of Punjabs population, they number in they millions. If a few decided to list Hindi as their mother language that doesnt mean all have, or even if they did does that make it right to take their land away from them simply for that reason? Doesnt sound like the Khalsas way. As for your stance on Pakistan actually you have not given a definitive answer, your article sugggests that we attack them, and claim East Punjab as well, I suppose we agree that Islamabad is in Punjab now?. Not necessarily nuclear weapong but non nuclear missiles could be dropped and insurgents now from a safe distance. I didnt get a response to my questions posted, my post was ignored, Im interested in your response veer ji.

[LostSoul]

im sick of this why khalistan, what after khalistan, tell me what's going to happen after sikhs were boiled alive in police stations, had their private parts electrocuted and women raped in front of their families.  what is going to happen after hundreds of thousands of people have been liquidated?  Did the sikh nation produce over 200,000 terrorists which the GOI had to exterminate?! what is going to happen after all this oh mighty scholars?  do we go on like nothing happened?  Hindus cannot forget about a 16th century mandir but what about 15 20 years ago for us? we forgot about partition, we forgot about the punjabi suba movement, now what 1984, delhi pogroms?!  are we fools or something are we jsut supposed to take it like sheeps at the butcher?  what about all this scholar sahibs?!  what is going to happen after all this? 

forget about after khalistan, what is going to happen after your people were liquidated?  you ever thought about this?  all you people worrying about the ecenomies and money and inustries, what does that do for a mother who lost four, five sons?  yeah i live in the west, but i have a heart.  have some feelings man, have a heart.  every time we do ardaas we pra for the people who gave shaheedi for the sewa of our gurughars, were any of us doing sewa for the destroyed akaal takhat sahib in 1984?  how many of us left our families to do thsi sewa and end up dead in the ravi river?  who do we pray for in ardaas?  all those shaheed pariwaars are the true reason any of us are proud to be sikh. 

stop all these worthless threads about what will happen after khalistan, save your turban now.

140645[/snapback]

The question of what will happen to our people after Independence is a legitimate question. What would you have Brother, to lead our people to poverty and famine? Do you not think if the demand for Khalistan is strong the demand for a structured plan for after seperation should also be on the drawing table? Many people lost loved ones, another movement will make more mothers cry. You call for Khalistan and if a farmer in Punjab asks you "what will happen to me and my family if you win the war?" What would be your response? Tell them dont worry? What answers will you give to the millions of people there? They need reassurance, I need reassurance, I need to know that this movement has intelligent people involved with it, to make sure our family interests are secure. We can always come back to our homes abroad but there are millions who will feel the effect of it full force. If you find the thread stupid you dont need to post a comment Veer Ji, Peace be with you! GurFateh

[Sabre Sword]

Not necessarily nuclear weapong but non nuclear missiles could be dropped and insurgents now from a safe distance.

there are Many ways of evading laser guided munition. after new weapons are developed it dosent take long for militants to form a strategy to deal with it.

[Guest SatwantBeantKehar]

In Khalistan we will only have a prime minister - The president will be Guru Granth Sahib - for ever.

Also the constitution will be based on SGGS.

The healthcare, welfare and employment inusrance will be just like canada - and that'd mean fat taxes and i dont support sparing farmers from taxes - thats a business too afterall.

Female infanticide or feoticide will be considered homicide with dire consequences (jail term like 25 - 35 yrs for the parents and the doctor).

Friendly relations with neighbouring countries to minimize defense spending.

Policing will be also be similar to candian system - a cop so much as slapping someone might earn a jail sentence - all cops will address people with sir/madam.

The govt will have pro - outsoucing policies to attract call centers, software development centers etc.

Every graduate in any discipline will have to have understand guru granth sahib word by word to earn his degree.

[LostSoul]

Very lofty ideas easily said but hard to folllow through on. Maybe you could read my previous post and answer those Brother?

"The healthcare, welfare and employment inusrance will be just like canada - and that'd mean fat taxes and i dont support sparing farmers from taxes - thats a business too afterall."

So we tax the poor? Sit down and think if you were that same farmer and you were feeding your family fine, and then comes this new regime with high taxes, would you sit there and take it or...could it lead to a revolt?

"Friendly relations with neighbouring countries to minimize defense spending."

You mean India? Pakistan would be there, but as the article had suggested some of our eager brother might put claim to East Punjab as well. I highly doubt that Pakistan wants to acieve Khalistan because they truely like us, they have their own motives.

"all cops will address people with sir/madam."

Thats how its supposed to be here, whats a Cops motto "TO SERVE AND PROTECT" but as we all know power corrupts people, that politefullness is wishful thinking.

"The govt will have pro - outsoucing policies to attract call centers, software development centers etc."

Alot of countries do, but I hardly think that major corporations will invest into a newly independent nation, the market would be to volatile for them. Also along with the outsourcing will come the dreaded Western influence!

"Every graduate in any discipline will have to have understand guru granth sahib word by word to earn his degree."

Why? What about the non Sikhs? What if a student wants to focus on his major and rather not study bani?