The Only Way...

[Guest original poster]

THANK YOU SOOOOOO MUCH!!!!! to everyone who posted

its helped ALOT. ermmm dnt reli no wht else to say

[Laadli Fauj]

sikhi is NOT the pnly way. If u consider thine self a sikh, then it is.

A Tata Safari isn't a tata if it has a ferrari engine.

U drive ur car with all da parts. Ur missing wheels, u wont go nowware. broken steering & u might turn go backwards. U drive ur car completely w/ all parts.

U follow ur religion the same way 2 -- To the fullest.

It's just that Sikhi aint no car--It's an F-18 blackbird.

[Singh132]

The people that think all religions lead to the same goal are very deluded. Muslims want to go to heaven with rivers of wine and untouched virgins. Is this the same as Sachkhand? Please give me some evidence from Guru Granth Sahib to support that all religions go to the same place.

All humans are born equal. All deserve the same respect. All are loved by God. But that doesn't mean all religions are true. They are not.

from www.whyichosesikhism.com

A: It is a TOTALLY FALSE argument that Sikhism believes all paths lead to the same goal and thus all religions are equal: From its very inception, Gurmat has been declared a unique and distinct path. Bhai Gurdas writes: "the Guru has created the mighty Gurmukh panth. This panth keeps itself away from the boundaries of the Vedas and the Semitic scriptures..." (Bhai Gurdas, 23.19)

SGGS over and over stresses the importance of "Gurmat Naam". Without Gurmat Naam no one can find Akaal or reach sachkhand. Gurmat naam is only available in the house of Guru Nanak: "Nanak kai ghar keval, naam" . Keval means "only".

Without naam, no one can find God. GurbaaNee is clear about this fact:

Nanak naam binaa ko mukath n hoee

Translation:O Nanak, without the Naam, the Name of the Lord, no one is liberated

Where is this naam to be found? From the Guru.

bin gur naam n paaeiaa jaae

Translation:Without the Guru, the Naam cannot be obtained.

Satguru Nanak is the only true Guru who has preached naam, and given gurmat-naam.

As for other acts of "religion", this is what Guru Nanak says:

theeruthh thup dhaeiaa dhuth dhaan ||

Pilgrimages, austere discipline, compassion and charity

jae ko paavai thil kaa maan ||

these, by themselves, bring only an iota of merit.

suniaa mu(n)niaa man keethaa bhaao ||

Listening and believing with love and humility in your mind,

a(n)thurugath theerathh mal naao ||

cleanse yourself with the Name, at the sacred shrine deep within.......

So, unless someone receives Gurmat Naam from Guru Nanak, there is no liberation. They will be rewarded for their good karma, but not liberated. They don't want liberation! Christians are content with heaven, and they will receive it. But then they will enter the cycle of births and deaths again, hopefully in a life which will bring them closer to liberation. Gurmat Panth's respect of all religions goes as far as saying that they are not sent to eternal hell, they will get what they work for. Like Harmandir Saahib: God is open and available to all directions and all people of the world, but the path to God is ONE: Gurmat.

About other faiths:

eik jainee oujhurr paae dhhuruhu khuaaeiaa ||

Some are Jains, wasting their time in the wilderness; by their pre-ordained destiny, they are ruined. panna 1285

hi(n)dhoo a(n)nhaa thurukoo kaanaa ||

The Hindu is blind; the Muslim has only one eye. panna 875

In many other places it is made clear that Gurmat, the way of the Giani, who meditates on Gurmat Naam is the only path to Akaal. Others will get their heaven etc. but not find Akaal.

All faiths will get what they work towards. Only Gurmat has a concept such as Sach Khand and God-Realisation in such a clear way. Thus, Gurmat is the only path to Sach Khand and merger with Akaal.

Who else is the true Guru of status of Guru Nanak? Mohammad? Jesus? Krishna? Rama? There is none. These prophets don't come close to even the Sikhs of Guru Nanak, let alone Guru Nanak himself. GurbaaNee leaves no doubt: "Sabh tay Vadaa Satgur Nanak, Jin kal raakhee mayree" meaning Satuguru Nanak is THE GREATEST who has protected my honour in this age of darkness (Kaljug).

[Laadli Fauj]

Sach khand/union w/Waheguru is our destination.

Rivers of wine and whores are the Muslim destination. THat's there destination. It's not congruent, yet synonymous in that that's their heaven, and union w/Waheguru is ours

[Laadli Fauj]

and about naam, is Allah yet another for of it?

[Khalsa4ever]

Waheguroo jee ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo jee kee Fateh!

It doesn't matter what you call it, us knowing the final destination is unimportant. True, the dogma of islamic faith is with heaven with the virgins, etc. and christians have a thought of some place in the clouds with golden harps, but does it really matter?

Each person thinks of God as different, so each person will perceive 'heaven' differently. No two sants have described our final destination the same way. And the reason is because it is IMPOSSIBLE to describe God and thus unifying with him in words. Guru Granth Sahib is full of quotes that back this up. So people do the best they can, by trying to describe it as accurately as possible in THEIR VIEW.

But that still doesn't mean that adhering to the faith in the way that that faith shows that you will achieve "God" is wrong. You may think you're getting a ride to school in a car, but its not up to you where you end it, its the driver. (ie: the end is irrelevant, because regardless of what the end is, its what we have to do in life that matters).

Waheguroo jee ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo jee kee Fateh!

[Khalsa4ever]

and about naam, is Allah yet another for of it?

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Page 885

raamukulee mehulaa 5

Raamkalee, Fifth Mehl:

koee bolai raam raam koee khudhaae

Some call Him, 'Raam, Raam', and some call Him, 'Khudaa-i'.

koee saevai guseeaa koee alaahi

Some serve Him as 'Gusain', others as 'Allaah'. ||1||

kaarun kurun kureem

He is the Cause of causes, the Generous Lord.

kirupaa dhaar reheem

He showers His Grace and Mercy upon us. ||1||Pause||

koee naavai theerath koee huj jaae

Some bathe at sacred shrines of pilgrimage, and some make the pilgrimage to Mecca.|

koee kurai poojaa koee sir nivaae

Some perform devotional worship services, and some bow their heads in prayer. ||2||

koee purrai baedh koee kuthaeb

Some read the Vedas, and some the Koran.

koee outai neel koee supaedh

Some wear blue robes, and some wear white. ||3||

koee kehai thuruk koee kehai hindhoo

Some call themselves Muslim, and some call themselves Hindu.

koee baashai bhisuth koee suragindhoo

Some yearn for paradise, and others long for heaven. ||4||

kuhu naanuk jin hukum pushaathaa

Says Nanak, one who realizes the Hukam of God's Will,

prubh saahib kaa thin bhaedh jaathaa

knows the secrets of his Lord and Master. ||5||9||

[Singh132]

Khalsa4Ever,

I'm glad you replied.

You said: "so each person will perceive 'heaven' differently"

That's fine and good, but heaven is not somewhere a Sikh wants to go. Heaven exists, no doubt, but it is not anywhere near Sachkhand. Gursikhs say, nwnk nwim ibswirAY nrk surg Avqwr ]9]

This means, if you forsake naam, then you are subject to heaven, hell and reincarnation.

Without naam, Muslims, Christians, etc. will go to their paradise but then be reborn over and over until they get naam. Then you can say kbIr surg nrk qy mY rihE siqgur ky prswid ] This means only by the grace of the Satguru, is someone saved from both Heaven and Hell.

You quoted a shabad. I want to now go over it with you and reflect on what Guru Sahib has said. You highlighted, "some call him raam raam...". Yes, of course they do. Guru Sahib is stating a fact. Just like he states that some call themselves Muslims and others Hindus, and some bathe at pilgrimage and some go to Mecca.

Are you saying Guru Sahib is approving these things and saying they are worthwhile and all the same path to God? Because that is logically not possible. If these are part of a path to God, then the examples that follow like going to Mecca and bathing in pilgrimage are good too and also true religion. Guru Sahib has already told us going to Mecca and bathing at pilgrimage is not going to lead to God.

The essence of this shabad is two fold.

1) kaarun karun kareem kirpaa dhaar raheem. Vahiguru blesses and loves all people regardless of religion. But that doesn't mean all end up going to him.

2) Kahu Nanak jin hukum pachhata, prabh sahib ka tin bhaed jata What is the Hukum? Gurbani, whenever it talks about hukum talks about naam. eyko nwmu hukmu hY nwnk siqguir dIAw buJwie jIau ]5] This clearly means, the ONE Naam (Gurmat naam) is the Hukam and this has been explained by the Satguru.

So, for these reasons, and the ones already given, Naam is only available from Guru Nanak (bani tells us this). Only naam can liberate us. The rest of the religions, will get what they work for (paradise, etc.) but that is not the ultimate destination. Ultimate Destination is through Guru Nanak's path only.

[Khalsa4ever]

Waheguroo jee ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo jee kee Fateh!

So you're saying that reaching Waheguroo isn't paradise?

Or that they go to heaven but don't? It can't be both ways. That's what I mean about perception.

It doesn't matter what we think the end of the road looks like, but so long as we drive on that road we will reach the end. Then and ONLY then will we know what the end of the road is.

And listen to the hipocracy of what you just said. "Ultimate Destination is through Guru Nanak's path only."

Then how did Guru Gobind Singh, who tells us in Dasam Granth, BEFORE THE arrival of Guru Nanak, how he reached Waheguroo in his past life before being brought forth as our Guru?

You are deluded to believe that no one in 4.5 Billion years on Earth, or the Trillions of years before that Waheguroo created the universe, that NOBODY reached Waheguroo except for the last 500 years.

Waheguroo jee ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo jee kee Fateh!

[Singh132]

Reaching Vahiguru is beyond paradise. Bani says as much. Paradise is a very lowly thing. Sachkhand is something totally different.

You haven't rebutted any of my points.

You brought up Guru Gobind Singh in Bachitar Natak. First I ask, do you know what Guru Gobind Singh was when he talks about his time in Hemkunt? Was he a human? Was he a spirit? How do you know it was before Guru Nanak? Does it say anywhere how he reached the state he was in? How can you say it was without Guru Nanak's kirpa?

Bani says there is no Guru but Guru Nanak and only Gurmat Naam unites one with Vahiguru. According to these unbending principles, only someone who has taken naam from Guru Nanak can unite with God.

At any rate, if you want to debate it, rather than making statements over and over, either present your own evidence or prove that the statements I have made are wrong.