Arriving In Australia - 18th April 2006

[guru fateh]

even sant jarnail singh ji khalsa, sant baba ishar singh rara sahib wale, sant attar singh ji and many more have done a dharnas tooo....were they wrong to do a dharna?..... all baba ranjit singh is doing is making the meanings of bani sound easier to understand at not many people understand bani, lets look at the positive point, he has made thousand of people sons and daughters of guru gobind singh ji maharaj and mata sahib kaur ji has taken them off the path of drugs and put them on the gurus path.

[singh15]

even sant jarnail singh ji khalsa, sant baba ishar singh rara sahib wale, sant attar singh ji and many more have done a dharnas tooo....were they wrong to do a dharna?..... all baba ranjit singh is doing is making the meanings of bani sound easier to understand at not many people understand bani, lets look at the positive point, he has made thousand of people sons and daughters of guru gobind singh ji maharaj and mata sahib kaur ji has taken them off the path of drugs and put them on the gurus path.

I didn't mean that bhai ranjit singh is doing something bad...he's helped bring thousands of people on the sikhi path.. I just didn't want sangat to confuse bhai ranjit singh's dharna or har ras with bani

[sher_panjabi]

I heard that Bhai Ranjit Singh Ji Dhadrianwale promotes Gurmat Rehit of Dastaar should be worn by both men and women.

Out of interest, in the Amrit Sanchaars organised by him, do all women have to tie a Dastaar (i.e. a requirement)?

[Lion(LK)King]

Akal Thakhat has made a decision on the issue of kuchi Bani.

Since no-one bothered to respond, I assume that he did indeed sing dharna.

A beanti is - call it dharna. Do NOT say he is doing KIRTAN. Say he is doing Dharna.

Thanks

[_K4UR_]

he did kirtan the first 2 days but then sangat started sayin tht they wanna hear dharnaaz jus like he sings em in india...so he sang dharnaaz aswell as kirtan...if u dont like him dont listen to him...no use arguin...end of story

waheguru ji ka khalsa

waheguru ji ki fateeeeh

[N30S1NGH]

Akal Thakhat has made a decision on the issue of kuchi Bani.

Since no-one bothered to respond, I assume that he did indeed sing dharna.

A beanti is - call it dharna. Do NOT say he is doing KIRTAN. Say he is doing Dharna.

Thanks

Lion King- sensible question?

May i see akaal takth hakumnama from you or you can direct me to sources where akaal takth have issued such hakumnama or maryada?

also i am just suprised sikhs having monaply over word "kirtan" but i guess i shouldnt be that suprised because so called sikhs already claimed supermacy over Naam. Naaam- Vahiguroo japped can only get you sachkhand nothing else..

Kirtan word goes back to its sanskrit root, sorry may you allow me but kirtan of Vahiguroo is not 0wned by tat khalsa or anyone but only vahiguroo (nirgun and sarguna form) because kirtan is his praise and no one else.

At satsang we chant songs called kirtan. Most of the chants are in Sanskrit, but we also sing some English songs. We have been hosting satsang in my home for 28 years. My children have been participating since before they were born. They didn't have much choice as young children but now the oldest is eighteen and he is leading more chants than me. My fifteen year old is following suit. What an amazing thing it is to see my kids love something that's so close to my heart and great for them too!

At our satsang we use the harmonium (a droning keyboard from India), guitar, drums and a few rhythm instruments. The instruments follow the lead singer as he or she builds the chant from slow to fast and back down to a slower speed.

The power of sound is felt directly by chanting the ancient mantras and names of the Divine. A deep meditation is possible if aim, faith and concentration blend into the experience of the chant. In Yoga, Kirtan is the practice of singing and repeating the name of God (in both male and female aspects), as well as using descriptive phrases or divine attributes. The word Kirtan comes from the Sanskrit root "kirt", or "kirti", meaning to name, to communicate, to share, to participate in, to celebrate, to praise, and to glorify. The purifying power of God's name is mentioned in most spiritual traditions.

In the classical Ashtanga Yoga system, Pratyahara is the methods used to draw the mind inwards. Kirtan is Pratyahara, 5th limb. Kirtan can be a bridge between our outer and inner selves and an expression of our desire to know and love the Divine within. Kirtan is also said to be part of Bhakti yoga - the yoga of devotion.

Traditionally, Kirtan is done in a call and response style. There is a subtle dialogue, or as the word itself suggests, communication between the caller and the response. How the songs unfold depends on the group's wholehearted response. Traditionally, harmony is not part of kirtan, but when you throw 'Westerners' into the mix occasionally it happens and it can be very beautiful.

Concentration on the different names of God, the meanings, or the ragas (melodic structures) increases the focus of Kirtan. For some, translating the words and meaning of the Kirtan enhances concentration and devotion, while others prefer to dwell on the Name itself or on the raga. In reality, a person doesn't need to literally know the meaning of the chant, because the power is inherent in the sound. If someone is totally present in the chant, the energy and power will be experienced and can awaken them into the Stillness within.

[Lion(LK)King]

Mere Veer jeeyo, unlike you, most people can backup their arguements with evidence other than 'my seniour family members told me'.

http://www.sgpc.net/hukamname_Aadesh_Sandesh.pdf

Hukamnama # 91 (page 163)

Jathedar Ranjit Singh.

he did kirtan the first 2 days but then sangat started sayin tht they wanna hear dharnaaz jus like he sings em in india...so he sang dharnaaz aswell as kirtan...if u dont like him dont listen to him...no use arguin...end of story

waheguru ji ka khalsa

waheguru ji ki fateeeeh

1- Was Gurbani kirtan not giving them the rus that Dharn woudl give them?

Does Dharna (i.e. his own composition) give more Rus and anand than Gurbani?

2- So what Sangat of Australia is above Akal Thakhat?

Just ebcause the Sangat of Australia Says sometihng, desn't mean he has to follow it, Akal Thakhat goes abve all. Is he there to make sangat happy or the Guru? Of course making the local Sangat happy and doing what they say (even if tha means going agianst maryada) means more c@$h...

[SSM]

The knowledge and understanding some people have is not very deep and so dharna can be a great inspiration to those men and women.

They are not disagreeing with the singing of bani but asking for something to be sung which will help them to understand the message of bani.

No person in their right mind should see anything wrong in this.

The question in not about anand,if it were then why would these poeple gather in front of Guru Ji.

The question is about which one they can understand and once they can understand they can move on to experience anand.

[sher_panjabi]

I've been reading the various posts.

There is a difference between singing poetry about Sikh history or in praise of the Guru/ Waheguru and TWISTING GURBAANI.

Kachee Baani is the following:

1. Changing the words around in a shabad.

2. Adding your own words to a Shabad (even the smallest word like adding "Jee" to a word in a shabad).

3. Impersonating Gurbaani (i.e. the style and presentation or using the word "Naanak" like it is used in Gurbaani).

Baba Ram Rai did the above - he changed a word in Gurbaani to suite his own agenda.

Another example of this is "Sant" Maan Singh singing the shabad "pehilaa maran kabool jeevan kee chhadd aas" as "pehlaa maran kabool "KAR" jeevan kee chhad aas". This constitutes as KACHEE BANI as it has been MUTILATED.

Sant Jarnail Singh Ji did NOT impersonate Gurbaani, nor did he add his own words when reciting Gurbaani. Same goes for Dhadhi Singhs.

Bhul chuk maaf.

[singh_sandhu]

Will they be coming to UK by any chance? this yeaR?