Dont Want Khalistan

[ThirdRound]

Everyone that is reading this, here is some advice I learned the hard way. During the freedom movement Sikhs from various parts of the world would have secrete meetings about what to do about the situation in Punjab, but some how the Indian government would know exactly what was said at the meetings. They would then send each group a transcript of what was said. This would lead to confusion, mistrust and frustration. To further the situation, the agents inside the various groups would then start to accuse others of being spies, those people would get mad and accuse others and so on. The original point of the meetings was to figure out what to do in Punjab, but what ended up happening was people started fighting with each other.

These agents or informers are still around today, even more so then before. The Indian government keeps an active eye on these discussions and tries to keep it from growing into anything. So my advice to anyone who gets a useless post accusing them of being racist or saying this conversation is pointless, just ignore it. If no one responds to these people they will eventually leave or stop posting useless things. What we as a people should do is try to figure out is what really is Khalistan, what do we want, how is it going to be, how will it be governed. These are the important questions that once answered will make the movement unstoppable. It is up to the youth to figure these out, but be warned many people will try to stop you.

Now, back to the point made about sexuality. I do not believe it is a very pressing issue, but because you have raised the issue I would like to make my opinion clear. I believe sexuality should be accepted into the cultural norm of Khalistan. Human nature should not be suppressed, but at the same time there should be some self control. We should not have “red light” districts, but at the same time, male and female interaction should be encouraged.

Now I ask you, is it better to have one person in power or a council, what would be the most effect way to get people into power (besides elections from the general population), how long should their term in power be for?

[ISDhillon]

Now, back to the point made about sexuality. I do not believe it is a very pressing issue, but because you have raised the issue I would like to make my opinion clear. I believe sexuality should be accepted into the cultural norm of Khalistan. Human nature should not be suppressed, but at the same time there should be some self control. We should not have “red light” districts, but at the same time, male and female interaction should be encouraged.

but i think people should have the right to same-sex marriages also, in the west same-sex relationships are a welcomed thing but in dire societies which are stagnant same-sex relationships are not very much appreciated i think we need an overhaul in what is really important in life. i think that punjabis are more interested in keeping taboos hidden and it shouldn't be, thats why theirs soooo much drug addiction cos people dont understand how to cope with natural feelings.

Now I ask you, is it better to have one person in power or a council, what would be the most effect way to get people into power (besides elections from the general population), how long should their term in power be for?

i would prefer that their be no "government", i believe the country should have a "collaborant", where people work together, because when you have an opposition then slowly we progress into dirty politics for power, wheras when people are working together the wheel of dharma will continue to spin. Its the way of thinking that we have been brainwashed that a country needs to be governed, yet our guru made us sovereign people ie, self-governing, so why do we need to bestow any authority on an elite group of individuals, why not have a platform where joe bloggs can walk of the street and discuss ideas for the welfare of sarbat, do you get me just trying to think outside the box of modern nation state.

isdhillon

[singh_comradz]

Just my 2 pence worth.

I think divine rule of Panj Piyaare is the most viable option cus then if we put our faith in Guru Sahib then he will guide us all the way. This system of sovereignty has been given to us by Guru Gobind Singh and should be equal to that of presidency or premiership. All other tried and tested methods have major downsides.

With parliamentary democracy for example, some of the most power hungry selfish people become politicians with the intention of filling their own pockets. I guess this would be a major problem in a third world province such as punjab and even india. Perhaps a written constitution should provide the guidelines on the running of the country.

Secular countries of the West have seen a gradual decay in morals, maybe a good idea would be to have a

written constitution within a moral and gurmat framework acceptable by all. Cus unlike sharia law the Guru's teachings are universal to all and do not discriminate between groups, gender, colour etc....

An advisory council representing all groups and factions would be helpful too, but then they should not have the supreme say over legislation.

Something resembling the separation of powers between the executive, judiciary and and the legislative should be incorporated to prevent the centralisation of too much power and keep everything in check..

Unfortunately in India the system of governance is still artificial and from British times, there is little accountability for public bodies and politicians.

A judicial system ranging from a local level to a national level and involving the decisions of Panj Piyaare might be effective.

If there is an independant state then it should be on Gurmat guidelines. Other religious groups might object if they fear that their identity is threatened. But Sikhi respects and recognises everyone as equal and does not look down on religions. Furthermore the SGGS contains contributions from Muslims and Hindus as well as the Guru's. Therefore I doubt there would be much ground for objection.

On the other hand Sharia states look down on Non-Muslims and discriminate.

Far right Hindu rule advocates assimilation and submission.

So Khalsa rule is the most viable option.

bhul chuk maaf

[Revolutionary]

Sorry to interupt,

just had a conversatoin with my uncle about this subject.

He has a friend who has been in the indian army - as a captain.

His friend told him of how corrupt the army really is, such as selling parts of army vehicles to make money and how he never went down that hole because of his sikhi - he didn't ask for promotion and didn't care about punishment.

Moving onto this topic, when he was asked about Khalistan, he said there is no chance for the Sikhs to get it by fighting.

This army uses cunning strategies - such as put young/new recruits forward in battle - to minimize amount of compensatoin need to be paid to relatives. No army in the world has dared to take their helicopters at very high altitudes because of the risk of crashing. Indian army dont care and are able to fly their helicopters over the Himalayan Mountains!

They are never taught that they will die in battle; instead they are told "theres only a smal risk in battlefield".

I'm not against Khalistan, nor for it... just wanted to let you know about the above.

[singh_comradz]

On a serious note though, in my opinion Khalistan will happen but in the present moment in time the circumstances don't give rise to that possibility, but then saying that, circumstances can change very rapidly. Most this talk I guess is speculation which ain't really that bad, just peoples ideas on how the whole thing might work.

bhul chuk maaf

[Pakandi baba]

Just my 2 pence worth.

I think divine rule of Panj Piyaare is the most viable option cus then if we put our faith in Guru Sahib then he will guide us all the way. This system of sovereignty has been given to us by Guru Gobind Singh and should be equal to that of presidency or premiership. All other tried and tested methods have major downsides.

With parliamentary democracy for example, some of the most power hungry selfish people become politicians with the intention of filling their own pockets. I guess this would be a major problem in a third world province such as punjab and even india. Perhaps a written constitution should provide the guidelines on the running of the country.

Secular countries of the West have seen a gradual decay in morals, maybe a good idea would be to have a

written constitution within a moral and gurmat framework acceptable by all. Cus unlike sharia law the Guru's teachings are universal to all and do not discriminate between groups, gender, colour etc....

An advisory council representing all groups and factions would be helpful too, but then they should not have the supreme say over legislation.

Something resembling the separation of powers between the executive, judiciary and and the legislative should be incorporated to prevent the centralisation of too much power and keep everything in check..

Unfortunately in India the system of governance is still artificial and from British times, there is little accountability for public bodies and politicians.

A judicial system ranging from a local level to a national level and involving the decisions of Panj Piyaare might be effective.

If there is an independant state then it should be on Gurmat guidelines. Other religious groups might object if they fear that their identity is threatened. But Sikhi respects and recognises everyone as equal and does not look down on religions. Furthermore the SGGS contains contributions from Muslims and Hindus as well as the Guru's. Therefore I doubt there would be much ground for objection.

On the other hand Sharia states look down on Non-Muslims and discriminate.

Far right Hindu rule advocates assimilation and submission.

So Khalsa rule is the most viable option.

bhul chuk maaf

I agree!

Where as most have a primeminster we will have Panj Pyare and if one is corrupt they will be able to deal with him accordingly.

[Akali]

. As soon as this occurs, Pakistan will attack and take over. India will not come to the aid of Khalistan as it is a seperate nation.

Tere dode kade?? Your talking nonsense!

Why would Pakistan attack us, what motive do they have? You've been sitting to close to the Brahmins!

Sikhs need their own country just as the Jews do and they are less in quantity than we are.

As for the current state of Panjab, do you think there is a country in this world that's crime, poverty, drugs, free? NO, so shut up talking about trivial matters and get behind the cause!! :TH:

Watch your mouth! Read my further posts.

[ThirdRound]

I do not believe in giving too much power to religion alone. I do believe religion should have a voice in a council made up of educated people representing all aspects of khalistan, but Panj Piyaare controlling all of Khalistan would be too one sided. Respected that these people would have great deal of knowledge pertaining to Sikhi, but how knowledgeable would they be when it comes to day-to-day administrative activities. Certain things may also require a great deal of understanding and study, such as economics. These decisions the Punj Piyaare make will be based on there religions training? I do believe that there should be a seat for religion on a council, but religion should be one voice just like everyone else.

This is also another reasons why I dislike the name Khalistan, people start associating the state as an extension of the religion. Like the laws and decisions taken by the state should not be based on Sikhi alone. I believe the Panj Piyaare in charge of Khalistan would be a very dangerous situation. I would rather see the state run by a council with one seat dedicated to a religions representative, regardless of religion.

Also, the way Khalistan will be formed isn’t through violence (in my opinion), it is through education and organization. The more we come together and start to organize ourselves the more power we will have. I believe a new party needs to be started in India. This party could have chapters in all states that want to be independent from India (its not just Punjab that wants to be independent). Then we should start to push forward resolutions that will eventually lead to independence.

Violence will be used by the Indian government to intimidate us, at this point we must use the world media to our advantage. India of today is not the same India of 84. No longer can it afford to seem intolerant to minorities in fear of losing world investment. In addition, the Sikh community of today isn’t the same as in 84. Today we have many well established Sikhs in powerful positions throughout the world. We only grow stronger, while India is being more restraint.

The world is changing very quickly today and will do so for the next 40 to 50 years. Natural resources will soon deplete and countries will start to war over various needs. Already the US is engaged in war over control of oil, it will only get worst. Change is opportunity and we will take advantage of this opportunity.

[singh_comradz]

I do not believe in giving too much power to religion alone. I do believe religion should have a voice in a council made up of educated people representing all aspects of khalistan, but Panj Piyaare controlling all of Khalistan would be too one sided. Respected that these people would have great deal of knowledge pertaining to Sikhi, but how knowledgeable would they be when it comes to day-to-day administrative activities. Certain things may also require a great deal of understanding and study, such as economics. These decisions the Punj Piyaare make will be based on there religions training? I do believe that there should be a seat for religion on a council, but religion should be one voice just like everyone else.

This is also another reasons why I dislike the name Khalistan, people start associating the state as an extension of the religion. Like the laws and decisions taken by the state should not be based on Sikhi alone. I believe the Panj Piyaare in charge of Khalistan would be a very dangerous situation. I would rather see the state run by a council with one seat dedicated to a religions representative, regardless of religion.

Also, the way Khalistan will be formed isn’t through violence (in my opinion), it is through education and organization. The more we come together and start to organize ourselves the more power we will have. I believe a new party needs to be started in India. This party could have chapters in all states that want to be independent from India (its not just Punjab that wants to be independent). Then we should start to push forward resolutions that will eventually lead to independence.

Violence will be used by the Indian government to intimidate us, at this point we must use the world media to our advantage. India of today is not the same India of 84. No longer can it afford to seem intolerant to minorities in fear of losing world investment. In addition, the Sikh community of today isn’t the same as in 84. Today we have many well established Sikhs in powerful positions throughout the world. We only grow stronger, while India is being more restraint.

The world is changing very quickly today and will do so for the next 40 to 50 years. Natural resources will soon deplete and countries will start to war over various needs. Already the US is engaged in war over control of oil, it will only get worst. Change is opportunity and we will take advantage of this opportunity.

Interestin' points you raised veer/sis ji. Just a few more points I'll make. About authoritative governance of Khalistan, it should rest solely with Panj Piyaare cus that is the system of leadership that Guru Gobind Singh has given us and that which is also his roop. With Guru Ji at the helm what isn't achievable.

The alternative is a democratically elected parliament. The problem with that is it will be just the same as India which totally defeats the purpose of a Sikh homeland.

Lower down the heirarchy I guess different Panj Piyaare could advise departments of education, transport etc...

As for the name Khalistan, again the state and name is predominantly to do with Sikhi. An advisory council representing all religions, groups would be good but their authority should not precede the authority of the Panj. You stated that it was a dangerous situation but how I see it, all countries have heads of state. Despite many countries being democracies, the individual president and premier has alot of power invested in him/her. Thats a far more dangerous situation than having 5 people as the ruling body. For instance Goerge Bush is the president of a 'model' democratic superpower. However even he led to nation into an illegal war in Iraq based on lies when it was really for Hallburtons profits and oil. And Indira Gandhi, she rewrote the consitution to solidify her powerbase to do alot of messed up things. How ironic that while she could do that, Sikhs still can't ammend art.25 of the Indian constitution which labells Sikhs, Jains and Buddhists as Hindus! As for different religions/sects, look at Iraq. Sunni's and Shia's are killing each other over the bid for power. Hindus, Muslims and Sikhs in a ruling council just couldn't work. Plus divine power is invested in Panj Piyaare, all we need is the faith to follow this route.

The problem with a party in India is if people did that, then the Indian gov't and fanatic groups would see it as a threat and they will do the same as they have done with other pro-independance groups. That is to infiltrate them and annihilate the threat and label them as 'terrorists.'

India today is still the same as India in '84. In 2000, Indian soldiers killed 39 (i think) Sikhs in Kashmir to coincide with Clintons visit and blamed it on Muslims. In 2001 or 2002 Hindu extremists backed by the police killed, raped and burned 2000 Muslims in Gujarat. This sort of stuff goes on with all Sikhs, Muslims, Dalits, Christains in India the world media just turns a blind eye. India will just use mass propaganda and lie to the world. This is why raising awareness by Sikhs and other groups of India's true reputation is scaring them a little and your right, Sikhs have a stronger voice than ever before.

We do need to take every given opportunity we can in todays world. :e:

bhul chuk maaf

[Long live the khalsa]

WJKKWJKF

First of all im a firm believer of khalistan but i believe that sikhs around the world arent at the level to become soldiers and i think that we should become saints first before taking on the role of the soldier. Our shaheeds were soorma singhs and singhnia and we jus not at that level but khalistan will come when we are ready and when we prove to maharaj that we can be suva lakh. Maharaj kirpa

RAJ KAREGA KHALSA!!!!!!!

I think khalistan should be governed by punj piare, all chardi kalaa gursikhs and i think khalistan should be a republic. Amritsar should be the capital with a brand new government building close to Akaal Takhat Sahib. Khalistan will be for all of humanity and everyone will be treated respectfully.

jus a few thoughts

please forgive me if i offended anyone, these were merely ideas and i hope no one will take offense. please maharaj forgive moorakhs like me.

WJKKWJKF

bhul chuk maaf