Why Womens/females Dont Have Rights To Give Amrit Or Become Punj Pyaree/pyari

[ghumangee]

I agree bhain ji.

and ghumangee i understand what you are saying and i agree with you.

WJKK-WJKF

guru piario .. thanx.....

problom ehh hai ke babean de (pareh likhe)murakh anne bhagat jadonn apne ghare bnaee GURMAT sari kome te thosann de koshish karde ne tann udonn phir kome vich kalesh peda ho janda ne..

ehh anne bhagat ehh nahee sochde ke asse jo babeann de dasee Gurmat da agoon parchar karr rahe hann uss nall babeann de vee lokann vich bani ejjat da kee banega..................

simple gall hai ..... koee vee matric tonn jiada paria hoia manukh ....mardan te estreean de bibiann vich honn wale badlawan bare changee trann janda hai ....te ihh vee janda hai ke .... bibiann...ekk maheene vich siraf... tin jan charr dinn hee iss chakarr vichoon nikaldiann hann te bakee sara maheena bibiann nu koee problam nahee hundee.

rhee mardann de gall ... (sngat jee maff karna) ehoo jahe murkh bhagat (kujh namm bani wale guru piariann nu chhad ke) jo babeann de dereann te rehnde ne .... te garisth marg tonn door honn karke changee shakall suratt.... te feshnan patian bibian nu dekhde hee leek hona shuru hoo jande ne te ehoo jahe dass ne app amirit sancharr karwande wekhe ne even teen eger munde punj piare bna ke amrit sanchar karan laee bhej dite jande ne .....

kaarnn ehh hai kee ..... babeann ne apni mashuree karwani hundee hai ke iss sall asee ene lakh praniann nu amrit chhka dita hai .....parr chhei maheene jan sall badd ja ke pata karoo uss lakh vichon soo vee amritdharee nahee riha hunda.....

essda kaarn ehh hai ke amit chakaann walle app hee kache pile sann ..... sangat nu uhh kithonn pake karr sakde sann .....

dass de gall theek na lage tann .... ehnan sare babeann diann lists te figars... jo ehh prcharde firde ne lai ke dekho ....jine lakh lokann nu ehnan ne amrit chhkaiaa see uhh amritdharee kithe gaee ne .....

punjab vich tann 90% munde sir munaee firde ne kreeb 90% bibiann faishann ne patt laeeann ne harr koee bharwate te wall trimm kraee firdee hai.

Parr murkh bhagatann nu babe tonn siwa kujh disda hee nahee ..... babe ne jo marjee sach jothe keh dita ehnna laee ohoo gurmat bann jandee hai ......

banda ehnn nu puchhe ke .... tusee babe pichhe annean wang lage hoo bakee komm da kee ksoor hai ...

kionn babe deean ull jaluul gallan nu komm te gumat da namm de ke laguu karann de koshish karde hoo.

guru bhala kare te ehnn lokann nu summat bakhshe

bhulann ,guru te guru kee sangat bakhshan yog hai jee ...... bakhsh denian jee........

guru ghar de kukkar honn karke sangtann nu bhonn ke khabrdarr karr riha hann jee...

ONE MORE Q...

GURU SAHEBAN JEE DE SAME KINE TE KEHRE GURSIKH DE NAMM NALL "SANT" DE PADVEE LAGDE SEE TE JEKARR USS SAMEI ENEE KMAEE WALLA KOEE GURSIKH NAHEE HOEAA TANN HUNN WALE BABEANN NE EHH "SANT" DE PADVEE KIVEN LAI LAEE HAI JEE????????????????????????

[Jai Tegang!]

This issue has more to do with western conditioning of our minds in relation to equality issues. The issue of women being allowed in the Panj Piarey has only really heated up in the last ten years as the generation of Gursikhs in the wesstern age became old enought o be in positions to be heard. No Gursikh bibia in Punjab ever raised any isues with only Singhs being part of Panj Piarey, even the Bibia who were part of Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh ji's jatha from his time agree that bibia should not be part of Panj Piarey (they do believe, though, that in extreme circumstances bibia should be allowed). But apart from akj jatha bibia, there never was nor is a demand to be part of panj.

What most of the people who support bibia in panj forget is that at the end of the day, it's not what we think is right or what is equality, but what Guru ji tells us.

Anyway, peace.

can anybody give me a valid reason as to why women cant be panj pyare? a VALID one, if guru ji preached equality then i see no reason why women can't, it just seems so obvious. i cant believe sant jarnail singh ji agreed that women shouldn't participate, but i'm NOT gona take someones word for it, i have to hear it to believe it(even then i would be questioning), baba ji would never say a woman shouldnt participate simply because she is a woman...as far as the kirtan in harmandir sahib goes, im sorry dude thats wrong. i dont understand where ppl are getting these ideas from, it's like arguing that "you could cut the hair on your head but u have to wear a dastaar when u go out in public" btw, thats NOT TRUE :..: :lol: besides, one would think that harmandir sahib, the most well known gurdwara in the world would represent sikhi, but they cant have women doing kirtan??BS :bringitondude

Bhenji,

I’m sure someone can get the audio, but it’s very well known about the position of Santji, as well as the Taksal in general. For that matter, all great Gursikhs of the Panth have followed this maryada of Panj Singhs in Panj Piarey. Baba Attar Singh ji, Baba Gurbachan Singh ji Bhinderawale are just two names that come to the top of my head.

It was only when the western idea of equality became introduced into the panth via the British and Western education that some Sikhs started questioning some of our traditional Sikhi practices.

IF you look closely at our history, you will notice the differences existing between men and women in the Panth. All of our Guru sahibaan were males. The Khalsa Fauj was by and large males only, with few exceptions such as when Mai Bhag Kaur ji led the 40 Singhs back into battle.

Even though there were very pious and Bhramgyani Bibia within the Panth uring Guruji’s time, only males were given Gurgadhi. Even Mata Sahib Kaur did not become Guru after Guru Gobind Singh ji maharaj.

Similiarly, Guruji’s maryada of only tyar bar tyar Singhs, with no physical handicaps, being allowed to serve in the Panj Piarey was and is practiced. This tradition has continued on through the traditional seena-baseena sikhya that Gursikhs have passed on to their students.

btw, I never commented on Kirtan at Darbar Sahib, so no need to bring that up. I don’t know enough on this issue to comment.

Let’s not bring up the equality card each time we need to prove a point. Guruji’s marayda is above our worldly benchmarks as to what equality is and what it isn’t. Someone could very easily argue that Sikhi is sexist because none of the Guru sahibaan were females and there are no female contributors to SGGS.

Just a question out of curiosity, if we were able to convincingly find out if women can be in the Panj, would all of you who now say that “Guru ji wouldn’t discriminate” accuse Guruji of being sexist if the answer was that Panj piarey can only be males? Or would you all accept it as hukam and not object?

[Guest HaRdKaUrWaRrIoRz]

This issue has more to do with western conditioning of our minds in relation to equality issues. The issue of women being allowed in the Panj Piarey has only really heated up in the last ten years as the generation of Gursikhs in the wesstern age became old enought o be in positions to be heard. No Gursikh bibia in Punjab ever raised any isues with only Singhs being part of Panj Piarey, even the Bibia who were part of Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh ji's jatha from his time agree that bibia should not be part of Panj Piarey (they do believe, though, that in extreme circumstances bibia should be allowed). But apart from akj jatha bibia, there never was nor is a demand to be part of panj.

What most of the people who support bibia in panj forget is that at the end of the day, it's not what we think is right or what is equality, but what Guru ji tells us.

Anyway, peace.

can anybody give me a valid reason as to why women cant be panj pyare? a VALID one, if guru ji preached equality then i see no reason why women can't, it just seems so obvious. i cant believe sant jarnail singh ji agreed that women shouldn't participate, but i'm NOT gona take someones word for it, i have to hear it to believe it(even then i would be questioning), baba ji would never say a woman shouldnt participate simply because she is a woman...as far as the kirtan in harmandir sahib goes, im sorry dude thats wrong. i dont understand where ppl are getting these ideas from, it's like arguing that "you could cut the hair on your head but u have to wear a dastaar when u go out in public" btw, thats NOT TRUE :..: :lol: besides, one would think that harmandir sahib, the most well known gurdwara in the world would represent sikhi, but they cant have women doing kirtan??BS :bringitondude

Bhenji,

I’m sure someone can get the audio, but it’s very well known about the position of Santji, as well as the Taksal in general. For that matter, all great Gursikhs of the Panth have followed this maryada of Panj Singhs in Panj Piarey. Baba Attar Singh ji, Baba Gurbachan Singh ji Bhinderawale are just two names that come to the top of my head.

It was only when the western idea of equality became introduced into the panth via the British and Western education that some Sikhs started questioning some of our traditional Sikhi practices.

IF you look closely at our history, you will notice the differences existing between men and women in the Panth. All of our Guru sahibaan were males. The Khalsa Fauj was by and large males only, with few exceptions such as when Mai Bhag Kaur ji led the 40 Singhs back into battle.

Even though there were very pious and Bhramgyani Bibia within the Panth uring Guruji’s time, only males were given Gurgadhi. Even Mata Sahib Kaur did not become Guru after Guru Gobind Singh ji maharaj.

Similiarly, Guruji’s maryada of only tyar bar tyar Singhs, with no physical handicaps, being allowed to serve in the Panj Piarey was and is practiced. This tradition has continued on through the traditional seena-baseena sikhya that Gursikhs have passed on to their students.

btw, I never commented on Kirtan at Darbar Sahib, so no need to bring that up. I don’t know enough on this issue to comment.

Let’s not bring up the equality card each time we need to prove a point. Guruji’s marayda is above our worldly benchmarks as to what equality is and what it isn’t. Someone could very easily argue that Sikhi is sexist because none of the Guru sahibaan were females and there are no female contributors to SGGS.

Just a question out of curiosity, if we were able to convincingly find out if women can be in the Panj, would all of you who now say that “Guru ji wouldn’t discriminate” accuse Guruji of being sexist if the answer was that Panj piarey can only be males? Or would you all accept it as hukam and not object?

has it ever occured to you that at guru ji's times ppl, men in this case, were filled with homai and it is guru ji that taught us about being humble? and b/c of this homai, men thought of themselves as being superior to women?homai prevented women from being able to join armies and it deprived them of a voice.to those sikh women who did so much for the kaum at that time under all of the oppression, i ADMIRE AND APPLAUD. all of the things u've said in ur post can be answered if u just read the other posts. but let me ask you something, a sincere question, dig down deep into ur heart and tell me wen u were typing up ur reply was there some homai in u? im sure ur reply wud be no b/c if u said yes, it wud prolly make u look bad infront of the sangat, but im not here to make anyone feel bad, but hopefully u, urself, will realize why u believe in this double standard. take any situation and it all boils down to the 5 evils:kaam, krodh, lobh , moh, hunkaar(homai). I NOE A LOT OF WOMEN WHO BELIEVE IN SIKHI BECAUSE THEY FEEL THEY GET EQUAL PRIVELIGES IN THIS FAITH, PLEASE DONT TWIST MY GURUS TEACHINGS AND DRIVE PPL AWAY FROM SIKHI, IT'S NO WONDER PPL ON THESE THREADS COMPLAIN ABOUT WHY SIKH GIRLS ARE NOT MARRYING SIKH GUYS...WAKE UP!

[Jai Tegang!]

^umm...thanks for that polite response….anddid you just accuse Singhs at the time of Guru maharaj of being filled with haumai?

I think the real haumai is within you if you think your idea of equality has to override what Guruji’s hukam is. I mean how dare you!

Btw, like to comment on some of the points I raised?

Like all Guru sahibaan being only males, and only male contributors to SGGS, or the khalsa fauj being almost all male.

Let me help you out. It is by Akal Purakh’s hukam that Guru sahib have to be male. The Panj Piarey are representative of Guru Gobind Singh, and hence have to be male. Not only that, but it’s Guruji’s hukam, which has been passed down from Gursikhs to Gursikhs since that day.

I don’t see puratan Sikh Bibia running away from Sikhi because they weren’t allowed in Panj Piarey. It’s only this twisted western feminist thinking that is polluting the minds of young girls in the west that is causing the real harm.

[Guest HaRdKaUrWaRrIoRz]

^umm...thanks for that polite response….anddid you just accuse Singhs at the time of Guru maharaj of being filled with haumai?

I think the real haumai is within you if you think your idea of equality has to override what Guruji’s hukam is. I mean how dare you!

Btw, like to comment on some of the points I raised?

Like all Guru sahibaan being only males, and only male contributors to SGGS, or the khalsa fauj being almost all male.

Let me help you out. It is by Akal Purakh’s hukam that Guru sahib have to be male. The Panj Piarey are representative of Guru Gobind Singh, and hence have to be male. Not only that, but it’s Guruji’s hukam, which has been passed down from Gursikhs to Gursikhs since that day.

I don’t see puratan Sikh Bibia running away from Sikhi because they weren’t allowed in Panj Piarey. It’s only this twisted western feminist thinking that is polluting the minds of young girls in the west that is causing the real harm.

sorry to burst ur buuble dude but no it is driving females away, havent u ever heard of "takes one to know one"? cant believe im doing this but i'll RESTATE what ppl have ALREADY said before: if the punj pyare had their respected castes, that means all of the punj pyare these days should originally be from those castes, BUT HEY WHY STOP THERE? they should be the same height, they should all be brown, they should have the same shoe sizes-hec they should have the same DNA! as a matter of fact, if we could find some of their hair or something im sure we can do PCR and maybe come up with clones..yeah yeah thats right CLONES.

get real. equality doesnt have two meanings(ie: india style and western style) equality is equality. PERIOD. and how dare u put words in teh mouth of our guru, next thing u noe sum1's gona put up a qoute of how guru ji said only men are allowed to be punj pyare...as i mentioned b4, women werent taken seriously and so in order to spread the word of sikhi it wud make sense that a male who had an authoritative role would preach(DUH is it just me or is this common sense??) otherwise ppl wouldnt take the rebellious ways of sikhi serioulsy, as well, dont u think it wud be more powerful that a message of equality amongst genders came from a side that already had a upper hand? i mean its ironic and it makes ppl think...btw r u sure ur reading all of the posts coz ur posing questions that cud b easily answered, if not by common sense, by other replies....o and my hunkaar? standing up for the truth isn't hunkaar, if i had hunkaar i wouldnt admit to the acknowledgement men had over women and still do b/c of the punj chor.

[Lion(LK)King]

ghumangee brings some very valid points. Although i didn't udnerstand everything (bhull chukk maaf) i did understand the part about Sants. I do agree with you. I havn't understood what you have to say about Bibiya in Punj...

Bhenji,

I’m sure someone can get the audio, but it’s very well known about the position of Santji, as well as the Taksal in general. For that matter, all great Gursikhs of the Panth have followed this maryada of Panj Singhs in Panj Piarey. Baba Attar Singh ji, Baba Gurbachan Singh ji Bhinderawale are just two names that come to the top of my head.

You are right. I should have the copy somewhere. Bhindranwale's stance on this subject is wellknown.

On the otherhand I wonder if thesse Gurmukh (no matter how spiritually elivated) can be compared to Guru khalsa Panth. Guru Gobind SIngh Ji (according to Sainpat) gave Guru gaddi ti Guru Granth Sahib Ji and Guru Khalsa Panth. If Guru Khalsa Panth makes a decision on Something, no-one on this planet, no matter how spiritually elivated, cannot go against that hukam.

It was only when the western idea of equality became introduced into the panth via the British and Western education that some Sikhs started questioning some of our traditional Sikhi practices.

As far as I'm concerned, Pritham Guru Ji, Guru Nanak Dev Ji already introduced the concept of equality when he said -

ਭੰਡਿ ਜੰਮੀਐ ਭੰਡਿ ਨਿੰਮੀਐ ਭੰਡਿ ਮੰਗਣੁ ਵੀਆਹੁ ॥

ਭੰਡਹੁ ਹੋਵੈ ਦੋਸਤੀ ਭੰਡਹੁ ਚਲੈ ਰਾਹੁ ॥

ਭੰਡੁ ਮੁਆ ਭੰਡੁ ਭਾਲੀਐ ਭੰਡਿ ਹੋਵੈ ਬੰਧਾਨੁ ॥

ਸੋ ਕਿਉ ਮੰਦਾ ਆਖੀਐ ਜਿਤੁ ਜੰਮਹਿ ਰਾਜਾਨ ॥

ਭੰਡਹੁ ਹੀ ਭੰਡੁ ਊਪਜੈ ਭੰਡੈ ਬਾਝੁ ਨ ਕੋਇ ॥

From woman, man is born; within woman, man is conceived; to woman he is engaged and married.

Woman becomes his friend; through woman, the future generations come.

When his woman dies, he seeks another woman; to woman he is bound.

So why call her bad? From her, kings are born.

From woman, woman is born; without woman, there would be no one at all.

http://www.sikhitothemax.com/Page.asp?Sour...D=1748&Format=2

I was speaking about Guru Nanak Dev Ji's pihlosophy of Equality to someone the other day and she goes: "wow the Guru already spoke about womens rights and equality at a time when they were rightless in the west?"

Even Gorey are impressed by the revolutionary message of our Gurus. Please stop distorting it just ebcause someone who was mistaken about a issue (no doutb much respected, but mistaken=...goes agian the Guru.

IF you look closely at our history, you will notice the differences existing between men and women in the Panth. All of our Guru sahibaan were males. The Khalsa Fauj was by and large males only, with few exceptions such as when Mai Bhag Kaur ji led the 40 Singhs back into battle.

Even though there were very pious and Bhramgyani Bibia within the Panth uring Guruji’s time, only males were given Gurgadhi. Even Mata Sahib Kaur did not become Guru after Guru Gobind Singh ji maharaj.

Similiarly, Guruji’s maryada of only tyar bar tyar Singhs, with no physical handicaps, being allowed to serve in the Panj Piarey was and is practiced. This tradition has continued on through the traditional seena-baseena sikhya that Gursikhs have passed on to their students.

I'm not sure how much of the philosophy of Guru Nanak Dev ji you are aware of.

Guru Nanak Dev Ji did not look at his followers in terms of caste, gender or other superflous labels (no matter how much McLeodians try to claim that). The fact that the Guru Sahibs were all males is completly irrelevant. So what? are you trying to say that if Bhai Lehna was a Bibi Guru ji would not have given 'her' Gurugaddi?

Are you trying to tell me that Guru Tegh Bahadur Sahib wouldn't give Gurgaddi to Dasmesh Pita jee if he was a bibi? Reject your Guru then, cause Guru Ji's neither. Guru ji never was a man or a women. Guru ji's body was never the Guru. It always was Shabad Guru. Remember? Bani Guru Guru hai bani?

Can that Parkash of Parmatma, that Parkash of Bani not be ina bibi? can that prakash of Gurbani/Parmatma only occur in a male because he ahs a <admin-profanity filter activated>? Give me a break. You are not only undermining the Gurus, but are distorting his message at thesame time.

When it comes to the Khalsa Fauj, you are right. Vast majority of the Khalsa Fauj was males. Again, your point being? The cook in Guru Ji's darbar was a brahmin? So what. Does tha mean that a Sikh should only eat from the hands of Brahmans? Same way, Most of Khalsa Fauj was males just because of society at the time. The fact that women were suppressed at the time... cannot be denied. Women in Punjab (and Punjabi diaspora) are STILL suppressed. Can you seriously say that even today with the western on about equality ho ha, women are equal to men in the PUNJABI population? No. If you're out after 6 you're mostly getting calls from you parents every 10 minutes asking where you are. Do Punjabi men get these phone calls? No.

Face is Punjabis are one of the most sexistic people on this planet. Back in the time Women were suppressed. The fact that we had the likes of Mai Bhago tells us very much.

Times were Changing. Guru Sahib had brought a change. Guru Amardas ji banned sati. Guru Amardas ji made females "missionaries". I'm sure they too ahd their period? OMG that's terrible for you isn't it? Our Gurus were so revolutionary. They broke every norm in the society. Openly told everyone that menstruations were all part of Vahegur's Hukam and is NOT anything dirty. It is not anything to be shy about, because Vaheguru himself made it that way. Anyone daring to mention period as an anti-female subejct is just retarded and has no knowledge of Gurmat (I'm speaking about those who use priods as an excuse). Our Gurus were soo modern... They even spoke about it and openly told everyoe there's no such thing as impurity. The Impurity is in being separated from Vaheguru. Unforunatly 'Sikh' men are walking on the path of Punjabi men. A Sikh bibi SHOULD be able to speak to her brother/male cousin/friend about these issues cause these are not things to be shy about. It's natural and that's the way Vaheguru made it. (sorry for divirting)

btw, I never commented on Kirtan at Darbar Sahib, so no need to bring that up. I don’t know enough on this issue to comment.

This was most likely brought up from the mahants who raped innocent women in Darbar Sahib and other shrines. There is no excuse why Bibis can't do kirtan today.

Let’s not bring up the equality card each time we need to prove a point. Guruji’s marayda is above our worldly benchmarks as to what equality is and what it isn’t. Someone could very easily argue that Sikhi is sexist because none of the Guru sahibaan were females and there are no female contributors to SGGS.

No that is an invalid argument, since the Gurus were beyond gender and physical aspects. Anyone with very very slightly knowedge of Gurmat can bring up issues as Guru Sahibs not being females and no female contributors to Maharaj. Guru Sahib had a parameter fixed. He wasn't going to change it just because no females composing something wasn't within those parameters. the Argument is absurd, and anyone with knowledge of Gurmat would not bring up such an abusrd argument. the Bhagats, Gurus, Sikhs, bhatts were all beyond gender and the physical. It was only parmatma. Mool. They had released their mool. Remember - Man too jyot saroop hai apna mool Pachan... They weren't males. They were all wifes of the one

Just a question out of curiosity, if we were able to convincingly find out if women can be in the Panj, would all of you who now say that “Guru ji wouldn’t discriminate” accuse Guruji of being sexist if the answer was that Panj piarey can only be males? Or would you all accept it as hukam and not object?

I would question until he could give me a very satisfying answer. I have all right in the world to question him. He is my bapu. I am his son. He is my peh...He wouldn't object me questioning him. I'm sure he'd be happy me removing doubt from my mind. And you never know.. if it's a test from the Guru.... wanting you to question him..just like his Khalsa did at his time :lol: (not in any way comparing myself to the Khalsa at the time...)

Bhull Chukk Maaf Karni jee

[buddasingh]

Just a question out of curiosity, if we were able to convincingly find out if women can be in the Panj, would all of you who now say that “Guru ji wouldn’t discriminate” accuse Guruji of being sexist if the answer was that Panj piarey can only be males? Or would you all accept it as hukam and not object?

"If we were able to convincingly find out if women can be in the Panj......if the answer was that Panj piarey can only be males......"?? :lol: @

Isn't "convincingly find out" what you are claiming to have done already?

So are you still convincingly trying to find out while you are convincing all of us that you have already convincingly found out?

Not very found out, nor very convincing.

[mann_kaum_layee_qurbaan]

In gurbaani we are all females. The soul is the soul-bride longing for the beloved husband lord god. If guru sahibs thought less of women then they never would have referred to the soul in a female context.

Without women there would be no guru sahibs. without woman there is no father of the khalsa and no khalsa, period.

bibi nanaki, the first sikh. a female was the first to see the divine jot of god radiate from jagat guru sri guru nanak dev ji.

[Guest HaRdKaUrWaRrIoRz]

In gurbaani we are all females. The soul is the soul-bride longing for the beloved husband lord god. If guru sahibs thought less of women then they never would have referred to the soul in a female context.

Without women there would be no guru sahibs. without woman there is no father of the khalsa and no khalsa, period.

bibi nanaki, the first sikh. a female was the first to see the divine jot of god radiate from jagat guru sri guru nanak dev ji.

just to add to that, in chandi di // (song of war) guru gobind singh ji uses the word Bhagoutee which is a name for God it shows that God in this case is female-it illustrates the point that God is without sex. besides arent our bodies just sacs of dirt? does it matter if someone is man or woman? dont we all have gods light? we are not supposed to be attached to this body, right?

[Jai Tegang!]

I’ll respond to LK since he actually gave a decent reply.

1. I agree with the Guru Khalsa Panth principle. But it’s very difficult to implement. At the moment SGPC makes itself look like the Panth, but clearly is not. It’s very difficult to get every jathebandi to agree to a point, so this might be difficult. But heck, if it worked back in the day, maybe it can work once again.

2. I think you can’t simply ignore the fact that all Guru sahibaan were males. Saying they were above gender is a cop out in the context of this argument. I’m not arguing that Guru ji didn’t preach equality, all I’m saying is we need to understand their view on equality as opposed to what we’ve been taught at school or through the media.

3. You’re not giving a very good response about women not being part of Khalsa fauj in large numbers, or even present at all. Again, if Guruji felt that it was a place for women to be, he would have instructed them as such. Just like Guru sahib made Sikh women missionaries, he could have given other responsibilities to them as well. Fact is Guru maharaj did not give Gurgadhi to any women, nor were women in the khalsa fauj. These are positions which are better suited for males, just like the seva of Panj Piraey is better suited for males.

4. Again, I don’t know the reasoning behind women not being allowed to do kirtan at Darbar sahib. I seriously don’t want to take a stance without knowing the historical reasons for this, if any exist.

I feel I’m repeating myself, and the replies also feel repetitive. I’m not going to keep arguing this with the same argument, so I’ll just leave it at this.

No hard feelings,

Gufateh.