Who Was Guruji!

[Golee Maro]

That shabad says that the 2nd Guru was the incarnation of the 1st etc but not the incarnation of God.

As in Jyot

i understand that. but heres some katha i heard : apparently, Mehta Kalu was a sanyaasi in his previous incarnation. he done keval tapp, which was total meditation away from gristt jeevan. Once he had done 'enough', he dreamt of a devi moorta who offered him anything, but mukhti, in return. His wish was to have God Himself to be born into his house. He was told he would be granted that wish but because he hadnt done bhagti, he would not be given "pehchaanan da //" - the ability to recognise the jyot. He would only be able to recognise the jyot once he had done bhagti or at such a time that Maharaj permits.

away from that, i believe Maharaj is in every living thing, and in every inanimate object that exists. But i believe Guru Nanak Dev Jee was BEYOND any ordinary "man". However i also believe, with total control of ure mann and total pyaar, devotion and bhagti, what Guru Nanak Dev jee achieved, man can achieve too and that is perfection. Coz Guru Nanak Dev Jee was perfect and i believe we have been given the same ability to reach such a state of mind.

im not very learned so do forgive me if i say nething wrong here...

[Guest PRITAM SINGH KHALSA]

That shabad says that the 2nd Guru was the incarnation of the 1st etc but not the incarnation of God.

As in Jyot

i understand that. but heres some katha i heard : apparently, Mehta Kalu was a sanyaasi in his previous incarnation. he done keval tapp, which was total meditation away from gristt jeevan. Once he had done 'enough', he dreamt of a devi moorta who offered him anything, but mukhti, in return. His wish was to have God Himself to be born into his house. He was told he would be granted that wish but because he hadnt done bhagti, he would not be given "pehchaanan da //" - the ability to recognise the jyot. He would only be able to recognise the jyot once he had done bhagti or at such a time that Maharaj permits.

away from that, i believe Maharaj is in every living thing, and in every inanimate object that exists. But i believe Guru Nanak Dev Jee was BEYOND any ordinary "man". However i also believe, with total control of ure mann and total pyaar, devotion and bhagti, what Guru Nanak Dev jee achieved, man can achieve too and that is perfection. Coz Guru Nanak Dev Jee was perfect and i believe we have been given the same ability to reach such a state of mind.

im not very learned so do forgive me if i say nething wrong here...

That is true in everyway and is the most educated statement so far on this thred besides the qoutes. The qoutes are of the Gurus and nothing is more educated than the Gurus.

I agree fully with what you have stated

its just really hard to achieve their level of spiritual well being

the definition of a Brahm Giani?

or Jeevam mukat?

[Revolutionary]

lol @ argument between between pritam singh ji and bhajanpreet singh ji.

You both are basically saying the same thing.. Find it amusing :|

Lets analyse a shabad while we are here...

ਸਿਰੀਰਾਗੁ ॥

ਤੋਹੀ ਮੋਹੀ ਮੋਹੀ ਤੋਹੀ ਅੰਤਰੁ ਕੈਸਾ ॥ ਕਨਕ ਕਟਿਕ ਜਲ ਤਰੰਗ ਜੈਸਾ ॥1॥

You are me, and I am you - What's the difference between us?

We are like gold and the bracelet, or water and the waves. ||1||

Now you see in what way Guru Ji is one with God, while not being God?

The Shabad Caries on to explain this..

ਜਉ ਪੈ ਹਮ ਨ ਪਾਪ ਕਰੰਤਾ ਅਹੇ ਅਨੰਤਾ ॥

If I did not commit any sins, O Infinite Lord,

ਪਤਿਤ ਪਾਵਨ ਨਾਮੁ ਕੈਸੇ ਹੁੰਤਾ ॥1॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥

how would You have acquired the name, 'Redeemer of sinners'? ||1||Pause||

As well as a sign of humility, the use of "Infinite God" shows that no-one at all can be compared to Akal Purakh.

ਤੁਮ੍‍ ਜੁ ਨਾਇਕ ਆਛਹੁ ਅੰਤਰਜਾਮੀ ॥

You are my Master, the Inner-knower, Searcher of hearts.

If He is Guru's master.. How can they be one??

Answer: Cary on with the shabad...

ਪ੍ਰਭ ਤੇ ਜਨੁ ਜਾਨੀਜੈ ਜਨ ਤੇ ਸੁਆਮੀ ॥2॥

The servant is known by his God, and the Lord and Master is known by His servant. ||2||

(i love Shabads..They know exactly what you'll be asking next :wub: lol)

ਸਰੀਰੁ ਆਰਾਧੈ ਮੋ ਕਉ ਬੀਚਾਰੁ ਦੇਹੂ ॥

Grant me the wisdom to worship and adore You with my body.

Therefore, God is inside you, making you ONE with God!

ਰਵਿਦਾਸ ਸਮ ਦਲ ਸਮਝਾਵੈ ਕੋਊ ॥3॥

O Ravi Daas, one who understands that the Lord is equally in all, is very rare. ||3||

Now, please dont argue "but that is written by BHAGAT ravidaas ji".. Or I won't be a very happy person :wub:

[Guest Singh_jee]

god is in every one...... even those ones who sin and commit crimes, god is stiill in them!

even people who do not believe in any sort of god, they are god aswell!

[Kalsingh]

naanak breham giaanee aap paramaesur ||6||

O Nanak, the God-conscious being is Himself the Supreme Lord God. ||6|| (Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji p.273)

breham giaanee aap nira(n)kaar ||

The God-conscious being is himself the Formless Lord. (Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji p.274)

naanak breham giaanee sarab kaa dhhanee ||8||8||

O Nanak, the God-conscious being is the Lord of all. ||8||8|| (Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji p.274)

breham giaanee kaa a(n)th n paar ||

The God-conscious being has no end or limitation. (Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji p273)

breham giaanee pooran purakh bidhhaathaa ||

The God-conscious being is the Perfect Supreme Being, who orchestrates all. (Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji p.273)

breham giaanee kaa sagal akaar ||

The God-conscious being owns the entire creation. (Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji p.273)

breham giaanee ko sadhaa adhaes ||

Forever bow to the God-conscious being. (Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji p.273)

What do you say to that?

The god conscious being is himself God. Not more than humans but less than god. Not at one with god but still not God. God himself!!!!! The true saint is infinite, owns everything and is nothing but the lord himself.

And Pritam Singh, I suggest you study gurbani more before making ignorant statements like staying away from Saints. Guru Granth Sahib Ji themselves tell us to seek the company of such beings and fall at their feet. The true saint is no different to our Gurus and God. They are all one. And this does not mean you have to abandon Guru Granth Sahib Ji. The true ones attach us to Guru Granth Sahib Ji and never let us bow to them when they are in front of Guru Ji. I understand that the issue of saints has got a bad name attached to it because of all of the false ones out there. They out number the true ones. But believe it or not, there are very few but yes, true brahmgianis on this planet.

And besides I think it was Guru Arjun dev Ji who actually called Guru Nanak Dev Ji God.

Guru Gobind Singh Ji never directly says they are not God. They are meaning that to worship them as God is futile, as it is because people won’t get attached to formless God without a body.

[Pakandi baba]

The thing is though they were one with God. So in a sense, they were God.

There should be a choice "All of the above" or something like that, because he really was...

But do not make the mistake of thinking they were God or you would fail in Sikhi altogether.

Guru Gobind Singh Ji - "Those who call me God, will fall into the deep pit of hell''

[Bhajan_preet]

Guru Ji's Sipahi, lol, you're right. I was going to point that out, but I had said I was done with this thread. I realize that was really stupid of me to say and childish, so, yay, I'm back.

I also realized after I reread this thread with a more fresh mind that the choice in the poll is:

As one with GOD

So... now I'm confused as to what the problem is. He was LIKE one with God, but not God. I dunno, I'm totally foncuzzled...

Pakandi baba, where did Guru Gobind Singh Ji say that? Not doubting what you said, I'm just wondering.

[ssinghuk]

PRITAM SINGH KHALSA jee, the translations of the Bachitar Natak that you have bolded:

He who calls me God will surely burn in the fire of hell. For I am only the servant of God: doubt not the veracity of this statement.

are WRONG.

Its not 'he who calls ME God...', but 'he who calls HIMSELF God'!!

[Guest PRITAM SINGH KHALSA]

The Divine Guru hath sent me for religion's sake On this account, I have come into the world; Extend the faith everywhere Seize and destroy the evil and sinful. Understand this, ye holymen, in your minds I assumed birth for the purpose of spreading the faith, saving the saints and extirpating all tyrants." (Guru Gobind Singh- Chaupai, Bachitar Natak)

What does this mean then? Why would he say he even has a Divine Guru?

"One cannot comprehend Him through reason, even if one reasoned for ages"

Guru Nanak

So through our reasoning will we comprehend God?

I need expert opinion in this

"The lord can never be established nor created; the formless one is limitlessly complete in Himself"

Guru Nanak

So if God was condensed to one being, then how limitlessly and complete is he in himself?

Jyot means the light of GOD. The Gurus had Guru Jyot and passed it to their successor.

I have this same debate with Christians about how they think Jesus was God incarnated.

I didnt translate the statement above my post. Sanddep Singh did, so take it out with him.

http://www.sikhs.org/guru10.htm

""""For I am only the servant of God: doubt not the veracity of this statement."""""" 10th Guru

Now tell me I translated this wrong too. I didnt translate it. Sandeep Singh did.

How can you mix this up from what he said about himself?

How can he say he is only a servant of God and be a servant of himself?

[Guest PRITAM SINGH KHALSA]

http://allaboutsikhs.com/gurus/gurugobind.htm