To N30 Singh

[Guest learner singh]

1. You stated that Sikhi has many flavours and one should pick one and stay with that ? Are you saying that Sikhi is a religion of sects ?. Did the Gurus preach Sikhi to be a collection of various sects rather than just Sikhism. No founder of a religion has ever created two or three sets of followers. Did the Gurus create different types of Sikhs ?.

Bikramjit singh can you provide us reference where Guru Nanak Dev ji founder of Sikhism has given name "sikh" to his follower?

2. You have referred to Sampardhayas who have a lineage going back to the Gurus. What research have you done on them and what makes you think that any Sampardhya which has a lineage going back to the Gurus has the right to claim themselves to be the only true Sikhs and their Amrit to be the only true Amrit ?. Over time every Sampardhya is liable to corruption and so have the four Sampardhyas that you are been referring to. Didn't Guru Gobind Singh finish the Masand system when they became corrupt even through they had a lineage going back to the Fifth Guru ?.

And where is that one panth Bikramjit Singh ji? Can you show me any single sikh on this site, who has clear picture

of sikhism? Sorry to mention it but we couldn't even figure out if meat is allowed within panth or not? Some of the sikhs on this site will call you non-sikh just because you eat meat? Whats up with that? Are you sure guru ji left us this confused that after 500 years we are still trying to figure out that what sikhism really is?

3. You have, in imitation of the Nangs started to refer to the Guru Granth Sahib as 'Aad Guru Durbar', the Dasam Granth as 'Dasam Guru Durbar' and Sarbloh Granth as 'Sarbloh Guru Durbar', why ?. You have claimed to be a Taksali and sometimes a Nanaksari on sikawareness but does the Taksal refer to the Guru Granth Sahib as 'aad Guru Durbar' ?. Does it give the title of Guru to the Sarbloh Granth ?. If you believe the Sarbloh Granth to be Guru can you give us some reasons why you think that Sarbloh Granth is Gurbani. I am right in thinking that you have not read the Sarbloh Granth, if that is so then what led you to conclude that it is Gurbani ?. I ask this question solely because I am interested to know why someone like yourself would believe in the Sarbloh Granth as Gurbani when only a few dozen Uk nangs believe in it be so and a few thousand Nihangs in India.

As I know from sikh-history forum where you have moderator position and once a while you come over there to discuss malwa population of sikhs that you're sikh from SGPC rehat maryada and still you are not hesitating to discuss "Dasam Granth" when on the other hand Akal Thakhat has restricted sikhs to discuss Dasam Granth until they resolve it by themselves. What's up Bikramjit Singh? Is EGO going off the hook? In your head which is making you so numb that you are forgetting Akal Thakat's Hukumnama?

r>Be a sikh first by getting rid of your ego and then come and start discussing panthic issues. As far as I know you from different forums you are known racist.

Admin -- Have sikh attitude and don't delete my questions because they all are relevent to this thread.

[Guest learner singh]

Also Bikramjit singh, What do you think about this Gurbani Salok?

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|| 4 || Chant the Praises of the Lord; Kali Yuga has come. The justice of the previous three ages is gone. One obtains virtue, only if the Lord bestows it. || 1 || Pause || In this turbulent age of Kali Yuga, Muslim law decides the cases, and the blue-robed Qazi is the judge. The Guru's Bani has taken the place of Brahma's Veda, and the singing of the Lord's Praises are good deeds. || 5 || Worship without faith; self-discipline without truthfulness; the ritual of the sacred thread without chastity - what good are these? You may bathe and wash, and apply a ritualistic tilak mark to your forehead, but without inner purity, there is no understanding. || 6 || In Kali Yuga, the Koran and the Bible have become famous. The Pandit's scriptures and the Puraanas are not respected. O Nanak, the Lord's Name now is Rehmaan, the Merciful. Know that there is only One Creator of the creation. || 7 || Nanak has obtained the glorious greatness of the Naam, the Name of the Lord. There is no action higher than this. If someone goes out to beg for what is already in his own home, then he should be chastised. || 8 || 1 || RAAMKALEE, FIRST MEHL: You preach to the world, and set up your house. Abandoning your Yogic postures, how will you find the True Lord? You are attached to possessiveness and the love of <admin-profanity filter activated> pleasure. You are not a renunciate, nor a man of the world. || 1 || Yogi, remain seated, and t

he pain of duality will run away from you. You beg from door to door, and you don't feel ashamed. || 1 || Pause || You sing the songs, but you do not understand your own self. How will the burning pain within be relieved? Through the Word of the Guru's Shabad, let your mind be absorbed in the Lord's Love, and you will intuitively experience the charity of contemplation. || 2 || You apply ashes to your body, while acting in hypocrisy. Attached to Maya, you will be beaten by Death's heavy club. Your begging bowl is broken; it will not hold the charity of the Lord's Love. Bound in bondage, you come and go. || 3 || You do not control your seed and semen, and yet you claim to practice abstinence. You beg from Maya, lured by the three qualities. You have no compassion; the Lord's Light does not shine in you. You are drowned, drowned in worldly entanglements. || 4 || You wear religious robes, and your patched coat assumes many disguises. You play all sorts of false tricks, like a juggler. The fire of anxiety burns brightly within you. Without the karma of good actions, how can you cross over? || 5 || You make ear-rings of glass to wear in your ears. But liberation does not come from learning without understanding. You are lured by the tastes of the tongue and sex organs. You have become a beast; this sign cannot be erased. || 6 || The people of the world are entangled in the three modes; the Yogis are entangled in the three modes. Contemplating the Word of the Shabad, sorrows are dispelled. Through the Shabad, one becomes radiant, pure and truthful. One who contemplates the true lifestyle is a Yogi. || 7 || The nine treasures are with You, Lord; You are potent, the Cause of causes. You establish and disestablish; whatever You do, happens. One who practices celibacy, chastity, self-control, truth and pure consciousness - O Nanak, that Yogi is the fri

end of the three worlds. || 8 || 2 || RAAMKALEE, FIRST MEHL: Above the six chakras of the body dwells the detached mind. Awareness of the vibration of the Word of the Shabad has been awakened deep within. The unstruck melody of the sound current resonates and resounds within; my mind is attuned to it. Through the Guru's Teachings, my faith is confirmed in the True Name. || 1 || O mortal, through devotion to the Lord, peace is obtained.

[Guest learner singh]

Few Sloks from Gurbani for all Bikramjit Singh's supporter.

Sri Guru Granth Sahib

pg 902

RAAMKALEE, FIRST MEHL, ASHTAPADEES:

ONE UNIVERSAL CREATOR GOD. BY THE GRACE OF THE TRUE GURU:

The same moon rises, and the same stars; the same sun shines in the sky. The earth is the same, and the same wind blows. The age in which we dwell affects living beings, but not these places. || 1 || Give up your attachment to life. Those who act like tyrants are accepted and approved - recognize that this is the sign of the Dark Age of Kali Yuga. || 1 || Pause || Kali Yuga has not been heard to have come to any country, or to be sitting at any sacred shrine. It is not where the generous person gives to charities, nor seated in the mansion he has built. || 2 || If someone practices Truth, he is frustrated; prosperity does not come to the home of the sincere. If someone chants the Lord's Name, he is scorned. These are the signs of Kali Yuga. || 3 || Whoever is in charge, is humiliated. Why should the servant be afraid, when the master is put in chains? He dies at the hands of his servant.

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|| 4 || Chant the Praises of the Lord; Kali Yuga has come. The justice of the previous three ages is gone. One obtains virtue, only if the Lord bestows it. || 1 || Pause || In this turbulent age of Kali Yuga, Muslim law decides the cases, and the blue-robed Qazi is the judge. The Guru's Bani has taken the place of Brahma's Veda, and the singing of the Lord's Praises are good deeds. || 5

124;| Worship without faith; self-discipline without truthfulness; the ritual of the sacred thread without chastity - what good are these? You may bathe and wash, and apply a ritualistic tilak mark to your forehead, but without inner purity, there is no understanding. || 6 || In Kali Yuga, the Koran and the Bible have become famous. The Pandit's scriptures and the Puraanas are not respected. O Nanak, the Lord's Name now is Rehmaan, the Merciful. Know that there is only One Creator of the creation. || 7 || Nanak has obtained the glorious greatness of the Naam, the Name of the Lord. There is no action higher than this. If someone goes out to beg for what is already in his own home, then he should be chastised. || 8 || 1 || RAAMKALEE, FIRST MEHL: You preach to the world, and set up your house. Abandoning your Yogic postures, how will you find the True Lord? You are attached to possessiveness and the love of <admin-profanity filter activated> pleasure. You are not a renunciate, nor a man of the world. || 1 || Yogi, remain seated, and the pain of duality will run away from you. You beg from door to door, and you don't feel ashamed. || 1 || Pause || You sing the songs, but you do not understand your own self. How will the burning pain within be relieved? Through the Word of the Guru's Shabad, let your mind be absorbed in the Lord's Love, and you will intuitively experience the charity of contemplation. || 2 || You apply ashes to your body, while acting in hypocrisy. Attached to Maya, you will be beaten by Death's heavy club. Your begging bowl is broken; it will not hold the charity of the Lord's Love. Bound in bondage, you come and go. || 3 || You do not control your seed and semen, and yet you claim to practice abstinence. You beg from Maya, lured by the three qualities. You have no compassion; the Lord's Light does no

t shine in you. You are drowned, drowned in worldly entanglements. || 4 || You wear religious robes, and your patched coat assumes many disguises. You play all sorts of false tricks, like a juggler. The fire of anxiety burns brightly within you. Without the karma of good actions, how can you cross over? || 5 || You make ear-rings of glass to wear in your ears. But liberation does not come from learning without understanding. You are lured by the tastes of the tongue and sex organs. You have become a beast; this sign cannot be erased. || 6 || The people of the world are entangled in the three modes; the Yogis are entangled in the three modes. Contemplating the Word of the Shabad, sorrows are dispelled. Through the Shabad, one becomes radiant, pure and truthful. One who contemplates the true lifestyle is a Yogi. || 7 || The nine treasures are with You, Lord; You are potent, the Cause of causes. You establish and disestablish; whatever You do, happens. One who practices celibacy, chastity, self-control, truth and pure consciousness - O Nanak, that Yogi is the friend of the three worlds. || 8 || 2 || RAAMKALEE, FIRST MEHL: Above the six chakras of the body dwells the detached mind. Awareness of the vibration of the Word of the Shabad has been awakened deep within. The unstruck melody of the sound current resonates and resounds within; my mind is attuned to it. Through the Guru's Teachings, my faith is confirmed in the True Name. || 1 || O mortal, through devotion to the Lord, peace is obtained.

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The Lord, Har, Har, seems sweet to the Gurmukh, who merges in the Name of the Lord, Har, Har. || 1 || Pause || Eradicating attachment to Maya, one merges into the Lord. Meeting with the True Guru, we unite in His Union. The Naam, the Name of the Lord, is a priceless jewel, a diamond. Attuned to it, the mind is comforted and encou

raged. || 2 || The diseases of egotism and possessiveness do not afflict one who worships the Lord. Fear of the Messenger of Death runs away. The Messenger of Death, the enemy of the soul, does not touch me at all. The Immaculate Name of the Lord illuminates my heart. || 3 || Contemplating the Shabad, we become Nirankaari - we come to belong to the Formless Lord God. Awakening to the Guru's Teachings, evil-mindedness is taken away. Remaining awake and aware night and day, lovingly focused on the Lord, one becomes Jivan Mukta - liberated while yet alive. He finds this state deep within himself. || 4 || In the secluded cave, I remain unattached. With the Word of the Shabad, I have killed the five thieves. My mind does not waver or go to the home of any other. I remain intuitively absorbed deep within. || 5 || As Gurmukh, I remain awake and aware, unattached. Forever detached, I am woven into the essence of reality. The world is asleep; it dies, and comes and goes in reincarnation. Without the Word of the Guru's Shabad, it does not understand. || 6 || The unstruck sound current of the Shabad vibrates day and night. The Gurmukh knows the state of the eternal, unchanging Lord God. When someone realizes the Shabad, then he truly knows. The One Lord is permeating and pervading everywhere in Nirvaanaa. || 7 || My mind is intuitively absorbed in the state of deepest Samaadhi; renouncing egotism and greed, I have come to know the One Lord. When the disciple's mind accepts the Guru, O Nanak, duality is eradicated, and he merges in the Lord. || 8 || 3 || RAAMKALEE, FIRST MEHL: You calculate the auspicious days, but you do not understand that the One Creator Lord is above these auspicious days. He alone knows the way, who meets the Guru. When one follows the Guru's Teachings, then he realizes the Hukam of God's Command. || 1 || Do not tell

lies, O Pandit; O religious scholar, speak the Truth. When egotism is eradicated through the Word of the Shabad, then one finds His home. || 1 || Pause || Calculating and counting, the astrologer draws the horoscope. He studies it and announces it, but he does not understand reality. Understand, that the Word of the Guru's Shabad is above all. Do not speak of anything else; it is all just ashes. || 2 || You bathe, wash, and worship stones. But without being imbued with the Lord, you are the filthiest of the filthy. Subduing your pride, you shall receive the supreme wealth of God. The mortal is liberated and emancipated, meditating on the Lord. || 3 || You study the arguments, but do not contemplate the Vedas. You drown yourself - how will you save your ancestors? How rare is that person who realizes that God is in each and every heart. When one meets the True Guru, then he understands. || 4 || Making his calculations, cynicism and suffering afflict his soul. Seeking the Sanctuary of the Guru, peace is found. I sinned and made mistakes, but now I seek Your Sanctuary. The Guru led me to meet the Lord, according to my past actions. || 5 || If one does not enter the Guru's Sanctuary, God cannot be found. Deluded by doubt, one is born, only to die, and come back again. Dying in corruption, he is bound and gagged at Death's door. The Naam, the Name of the Lord, is not in his heart, and he does not act according to the Shabad. || 6 || Some call themselves Pandits, religious scholars and spiritual teachers.

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Tinged with double-mindedness, they do not find the Mansion of the Lord's Presence. One who takes the Support of the Naam, by Guru's Grace, is a rare person, one among millions, incomparable. || 7 || One is bad, and another good, but the One True Lord is contained in all. Understand this, O spiritual teacher, thro

ugh the support of the True Guru: rare indeed is that Gurmukh, who realizes the One Lord. His comings and goings cease, and he merges in the Lord. || 8 || Those who have the One Universal Creator Lord within their hearts, possess all virtues; they contemplate the True Lord. One who acts in harmony with the Guru's Will, O Nanak, is absorbed in the Truest of the True. || 9 || 4 || RAAMKALEE, FIRST MEHL: Practicing restraint by Hatha Yoga, the body wears away. The mind is not softened by fasting or austerities. Nothing else is equal to worship of the Lord's Name. || 1 || Serve the Guru, O mind, and associate with the humble servants of the Lord. The tyrannical Messenger of Death cannot touch you, and the serpent of Maya cannot sting you, when you drink in the sublime essence of the Lord. || 1 || Pause || The world reads the arguments, and is softened only by music. In the three modes and corruption, they are born and die. Without the Lord's Name, they endure suffering and pain. || 2 || The Yogi draws the breath upwards, and opens the Tenth Gate. He practices inner cleansing and the six rituals of purification. But without the Lord's Name, the breath he draws is useless. || 3 || The fire of the five passions burns within him; how can he be calm? The thief is within him; how can he taste the taste? One who becomes Gurmukh conquers the body-fortress. || 4 || With filth within, he wanders around at places of pilgrimage. His mind is not pure, so what is the use of performing ritual cleansings? He carries the karma of his own past actions; who else can he blame? || 5 || He does not eat food; he tortures his body. Without the Guru's wisdom, he is not satisfied. The self-willed manmukh is born only to die, and be born again. || 6 || Go, and ask the True Guru, and associate with the Lord's humble servants

. Your mind shall merge into the Lord, and you shall not be reincarnated to die again. Without the Lord's Name, what can anyone do? || 7 || Silence the mouse scurrying around within you. Serve the Primal Lord, by chanting the Lord's Name. O Nanak, God blesses us with His Name, when He grants His Grace. || 8 || 5 || RAAMKALEE, FIRST MEHL: The created Universe emanated from within You; there is no other at all. Whatever is said to be, is from You, O God. He is the True Lord and Master, throughout the ages. Creation and destruction do not come from anyone else. || 1 || Such is my Lord and Master, profound and unfathomable. Whoever meditates on Him, finds peace. The arrow of the Messenger of Death does not strike one who has the Name of the Lord. || 1 || Pause || The Naam, the Name of the Lord, is a priceless jewel, a diamond. The True Lord Master is immortal and immeasurable. That tongue which chants the True Name is pure. The True Lord is in the home of the self; there is no doubt about it. || 2 || Some sit in the forests, and some make their home in the mountains. Forgetting the Naam, they rot away in egotistical pride. Without the Naam, what is the use of spiritual wisdom and meditation? The Gurmukhs are honored in the Court of the Lord. || 3 || Acting stubbornly in egotism, one does not find the Lord.

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Studying the scriptures, reading them to other people, and wandering around at places of pilgrimage, the disease is not taken away. Without the Naam, how can one find peace? || 4 || No matter how much he tries, he cannot control his semen and seed. His mind wavers, and he falls into hell. Bound and gagged in the City of Death, he is tortured. Without the Name, his soul cries out in agony. || 5 || The many Siddhas and seekers, silent sages and demi-gods cannot satisfy themselves by practicing re

straint through Hatha Yoga. One who contemplates the Word of the Shabad, and serves the Guru - his mind and body become immaculate, and his egotistical pride is obliterated. || 6 || Blessed with Your Grace, I obtain the True Name. I remain in Your Sanctuary, in loving devotion. Love for Your devotional worship has welled up within me. As Gurmukh, I chant and meditate on the Lord's Name. || 7 || When one is rid of egotism and pride, his mind is drenched in the Lord's Love. Practicing fraud and hypocrisy, he does not find God. Without the Word of the Guru's Shabad, he cannot find the Lord's Door. O Nanak, the Gurmukh contemplates the essence of reality. || 8 || 6 || RAAMKALEE, FIRST MEHL: As you come, so will you leave, you fool; as you were born, so will you die. As you enjoy pleasures, so will you suffer pain. Forgetting the Naam, the Name of the Lord, you will fall into the terrifying world-ocean. || 1 || Gazing upon your body and wealth, you are so proud. Your love for gold and <admin-profanity filter activated> pleasures increases; why have you forgotten the Naam, and why do you wander in doubt? || 1 || Pause || You do not practice truth, abstinence, self-discipline or humility; the ghost within your skeleton has turned to dry wood. You have not practiced charity, donations, cleansing baths or austerities. Without the Saadh Sangat, the Company of the Holy, your life has gone in vain. || 2 || Attached to greed, you have forgotten the Naam. Coming and going, your life has been ruined. When the Messenger of Death grabs you by your hair, you will be punished. You are unconscious, and have fallen into Death's mouth. || 3 || Day and night, you jealously slander others; in your heart, you have neither the Naam, nor compassion for all. Without the Word of the Guru's Shabad, you will not find salvation or honor. Without the Lord'

;s Name, you shall go to hell. || 4 || In an instant, you change into various costumes, like a juggler; you are entangled in emotional attachment and sin. You gaze here and there upon the expanse of Maya; you are intoxicated with attachment to Maya. || 5 || You act in corruption, and put on ostentatious shows, but without awareness of the Shabad, you have fallen into confusion. You suffer great pain from the disease of egotism. Following the Guru's Teachings, you shall be rid of this disease. || 6 || Seeing peace and wealth come to him, the faithless cynic become proud in his mind. But He who owns this body and wealth, takes them back again, and then the mortal feels anxiety and pain deep within. || 7 || At the very last instant, nothing goes along with you; all is visible only by His Mercy. God is our Primal and Infinite Lord; enshrining the Lord's Name in the heart, one crosses over. || 8 || You weep for the dead, but who hears you weeping? The dead have fallen to the serpent in the terrifying world-ocean.

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Gazing upon his family, wealth, household and mansions, the faithless cynic is entangled in worthless worldly affairs. || 9 || He comes when the Lord sends him; when the Lord calls him back, he goes. Whatever he does, the Lord is doing. The Forgiving Lord forgives him. || 10 || I seek to be with those who have tasted this sublime essence of the Lord. Wealth, miraculous spiritual powers, wisdom and spiritual knowledge, are obtained from the Guru. The treasure of liberation is obtained in His Sanctuary. || 11 || The Gurmukh looks upon pain and pleasure as one and the same; he remains untouched by joy and sorrow. Conquering his self-conceit, the Gurmukh finds the Lord; O Nanak, he intuitively merges into the Lord. || 12 || 7 || RAAMKALEE, DAKHANEE, FIRST MEHL: Abstinence, chastity,

self-control and truthfulness have been implanted within me; I am imbued with the sublime essence of the True Word of the Shabad. || 1 || My Merciful Guru remains forever imbued with the Lord's Love. Day and night, He remains lovingly focused on the One Lord; gazing upon the True Lord, He is pleased. || 1 || Pause || He abides in the Tenth Gate, and looks equally upon all; He is imbued with the unstruck sound current of the Shabad. || 2 || Wearing the loin-cloth of chastity, He remains absorbed in the all-pervading Lord; His tongue enjoys the taste of God's Love. || 3 || The One who created the creation has met the True Guru; contemplating the Guru's lifestyle, He is pleased. || 4 || All are in the One, and the One is in all. This is what the True Guru has shown me. || 5 || He who created the worlds, solar systems and galaxies - that God cannot be known. || 6 || From the lamp of God, the lamp within is lit; the Divine Light illuminates the three worlds. || 7 || The Guru sits on the true throne in the true mansion; He is attuned, absorbed in the Fearless Lord. || 8 || The Guru, the detached Yogi, has enticed the hearts of all; He plays His harp in each and every heart. || 9 || O Nanak, in God's Sanctuary, one is emancipated; the True Guru becomes our true help and support. || 10 || 8 || RAAMKALEE, FIRST MEHL: He has made His home in the monastery of the heart; He has infused His power into the earth and the sky. || 1 || Through the Word of the Shabad, the Gurmukhs have saved so very many, O Saints. || 1 || Pause || He conquers attachment, and eradicates egotism, and sees Your Divine Light pervading the three worlds, Lord. || 2 || He conquers desire, and enshrines the Lord within his mind; he c

ontemplates the Word of the True Guru's Shabad. || 3 || The horn of consciousness vibrates the unstruck sound current; Your Light illuminates each and every heart, Lord. || 4 || He plays the flute of the universe in his mind, and lights the fire of God. || 5 || Bringing together the five elements, day and night, the Lord's lamp shines with the Immaculate Light of the Infinite. || 6 || The right and left nostrils, the sun and the moon channels, are the strings of the body-harp; they vibrate the wondrous melody of the Shabad. || 7 || The true hermit obtains a seat in the City of God, the invisible, inaccessible, infinite. || 8 || The mind is the king of the city of the body; the five sources of knowledge dwell within it. || 9 || Seated in his home, this king chants the Shabad; he administers justice and virtue. || 10 || What can poor death or birth say to him? Conquering his mind, he remains dead while yet alive.

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|| 11 || Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva are manifestations of the One God. He Himself is the Doer of deeds. || 12 || One who purifies his body, crosses over the terrifying world-ocean; he contemplates the essence of his own soul. || 13 || Serving the Guru, he finds everlasting peace; deep within, the Shabad permeates him, coloring him with virtue. || 14 || The Giver of virtue unites with Himself, one who conquers egotism and desire. || 15 || Eradicating the three qualities, dwell in the fourth state. This is the unparalleled devotional worship. || 16 || This is the Yoga of the Gurmukh: Through the Shabad, he understands his own soul, and he enshrines within his heart the One Lord. || 17 || Imbued with the Shabad, his mind becomes steady and stable; this is the most excellen

t action. || 18 || This true hermit does not enter into religious debates or hypocrisy; the Gurmukh contemplates the Shabad. || 19 || The Gurmukh practices Yoga - he is the true hermit; he practices abstinence and truth, and contemplates the Shabad. || 20 || One who dies in the Shabad and conquers his mind is the true hermit; he understands the Way of Yoga. || 21 || Attachment to Maya is the terrifying world-ocean; through the Shabad, the true hermit saves himself, and his ancestors as well. || 22 || Contemplating the Shabad, you shall be a hero throughout the four ages, O hermit; contemplate the Word of the Guru's Bani in devotion. || 23 || This mind is enticed by Maya, O hermit; contemplating the Shabad, you shall find release. || 24 || He Himself forgives, and unites in His Union; Nanak seeks Your Sanctuary, Lord. || 25 || 9 ||

~~Waheguru~~

[warrior*princess]

HERES JUST SOME PROOF FOR YOU

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I think YOU are the one with the ego. Next time remember that Guru jee came to earth to start Sikhi because all other religions were not following a correct path, so of course there is only one maraag, Sikhi!!! (Just thought i'd make the main 1big so that you cant miss it.)

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"Khalsa mero roop hai khaas. Khalse me hau karo niwas."

Khalsa (Sikh) is a true picture of mine. I live in a Khalsa.

He alone is a Sikh, a friend, a relative and a sibling, who follows the Way of the Guru's Will. One who follows according to his own will, O Siblings of Destiny, suffers displeasure of separation from the Lord.

(Sorath M3, P601)

So Sikh Sakhaa Bandhap Hai Bhai,Jay Gur Ke Bhaaney Vich Aavey

Aapney Bhaaney Jo Chaley Bhai, Vichharr Chotaan Khaavey (pg 601)

Only that person is a Sikh and he is my near and dear one, who comes under the total allegiance of the Guru. As against this, one who owes allegiance only to his personal will, always remains in separation and will suffer.

Only upon receiving ordination from the Guru Can a disciple call himself a Sikh.

- [bhai Gurdas Ji, // 3, pauri 1]

Pratham Rahit Yeh Jaan, Khande-ki-Pahul Chhakey.

Soee Sikh Pardhan, Avar Naa Pahul Jo Lai.

(Rahitnamaa of Bhai Desa Singh Ji. )

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By the way its only Taksali that could not decide on issues such as meat...but in the beginning they didnt used to allow it, they only loosened the reht for qu

antity.

"Kabir Bhaang, Mach liii Surapaan Jo Jo Praanee Khahey.

Tirath, Barat, Nem Kiaye Te Sabhay Rasaatal Jahey" (pg. 1376)

Whosoever eats flesh, fish, etc. and takes wine and hemp, all his religious acts will go to waste.

"Kabir Jee Jo Maareh Jor Kar,Kaahtey Heh Ju Halaal.

Daftar Daee Jab Kaadh Hai, Hoegaa Kaun Havaal" (pg. 1375)

Whosoever slays life by force and call it sanctified; What will be his fate when he will be called to account for it in His Court?

"Jee Badhoh So Dharam Kar Thaapoh,Adharam Kaho Kat Bhai.

Anpas Ko Munwar Kar Thaapoh, Kaa Ko Kaho Kasaaee. (pg. 1103)

You kill animals and call it religion (Rahit); then what indeed is irreligion (Kurahit)? Even then you consider yourself as a sage of sages; then whom to call a butcher?

"Bed Kateb Kaho Mat Jhoothhay, Jhoothhaa Jo Na Bichaarey. Jo Sabh Meh Ek Khudai Kahat Ho,To Kio Murghi Maarey" (pg. 1350)

Do not call various religious texts false. False is one who gives no thought to their contents. If you consider God is in all, then why you slaughter the chicken (i.e., life?)

"Rojaa Dharey, Manaavey Mlah, Svaadat Jee Sanghaarey.

Aapaa Deldi Avar Nahin Dekhey,Kaahey Kow Jhakh Maarey" (pg. 1375)

You keep fasts (i.e., religious acts) to appease God. At the same time you slay life for your relish. This utter selfishness is nothing but empty or nonsensical talk.

"Kabir Khoob Khaana Khichri, Ja Meh Amrit Lon

Heraa Rotee Kaarney Galaa Kataavey Kon" (pg. 1374)

Blessed is the simple food of rice mixed with salt; Who would risk his head to be slain hereafter, for the meat one eats here?

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Rahnee Rahai Soee Sikh Meraa...

Aau Sahib Mai Oos Kaa Cheraa.

Reht binaa dar Chotaa Kavai...

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Manmukh Naam Na Jannani, Vinn Naavey Pat Jaaey... Vishta Kay Keerray Pavey Wich Vishta Se Vishta Mahe Samaaye(pg. 28)

The egocentrics know not the Naam, and without Naam lose their honor... They are

worms of excrement, fall in excrement, and get absorbed in excrement.

Manmukh Oodha Kowi Hai, Na Tis Bhagat Na Naao (pg. 511)

The egocentric person (i.e. Manmukh) is like a reversed lotus and possesses neither devotion nor God's name.

[Guest learner singh]

"Khalsa mero roop hai khaas. Khalse me hau karo niwas."

Khalsa (Sikh) is a true picture of mine. I live in a Khalsa.

Do you even know which granth this quote comes from? Try to learn Gurmukhi and other languages first and then come here and become a part of these discussion. Don't choose what is good for your org, jatha and leave which is not...

I won't discuss it any further because I have seen freedom of speech already where I defeated all you vaishno mata bhagats..... So I won't go for meat issues.

[>Bikramjit Singh<]

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

This thread was started because the other thread where this topic was being discussed became a slinging match. Now someone called 'Learner Singh' has again started to get personal. But this is to be expected, when you lose the argument then you try and sabotage the debate by getting personal and hope the other party will also start getting personal and then the topic is locked by the Mods.

Learner Singh

I am touched that you have taken the time and effort to locate my posts on other forums but I advise you to use the time that you have for more worthwhile activities rather than chasing my posts on different forums and then deciding whether they are racist or not ! Not that you need to be a rocket scientist to locate my posts, I post under the same name in all the Sikh forums unlike some people with an agenda who post as Narsingha, Nihang, Brown Cookie, Learner Singh etc on different forums.

Now back to the debate

1. Where would you like the reference to be from to prove that Guru Nanak called his followers Sikhs ?. From the Janamsakhis where the Sakhi usually ends with the characters becoming Sikhs of the Guru ?. From Bhai Gurdasji's vaars ?. From the Guru Granth Sahib where the 2rd and 4th Jot which warrior Princess has quoted in her post.

Here's a question for you ?. Do you believe that all Gurus contained the same Jot as Guru Nanak. If so under what foolish assumption are you asking for references to Guru Nanak referring to his followers as Sikhs ?

2. Your Gurbani Quotes. Congratulations, you have mastered the technique of cutti

ng and pasting. Any chance of showing me where the quotes that you have c&p have a relevance to the debate. Unless of course you are attempting to show me up to be a egoist or my beliefs to be due to the this age being Kalyug.

3. The fact that many Sikhs today are involved in Jathebandis does not mean that the Gurus never intended there to be just one Panth. The Nang view of Sikhi as espoused by yourself wants to make Sikhi into a 'Mini Hinduism', as does N30 and his flavours of Sikhi.

4. As far as I am aware I did not discuss Dasam Granth, only Sarbloh Granth. Nice to know that even the Nangs are keeping up with the Hukumnamas from Akal Takht.

5. My ego. You sound a lot like my old mate Narsingha.

GurFateh

Bikramjit

[>Bikramjit Singh<]

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

I won't discuss it any further because I have seen freedom of speech already where I defeated all you vaishno mata bhagats..... So I won't go for meat issues.

Who's suffering from EGO now ??

[Guest learner singh]

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

I won't discuss it any further because I have seen freedom of speech already where I defeated all you vaishno mata bhagats..... So I won't go for meat issues.

Who's suffering from EGO now ??

Feel free to make assumptions.

[Guest learner singh]

Bikramjit Singh I knew that it was coming to me. I don't know if its brown cookie or white cookie but sorry to disappoint you that im not your online mate.

What is Hinduism Bikramjit singh? Also Sikhism is not a part of Hinduism, if there is any. If you find me reference that there is something called hinduism then this debate matters. Because your main fear I see is that Sikhism might dissolve in Hinduism when on the other hand I know that there is nothing like Hinduism. Now go back to your books and read them once again.

[guruvah]

u go warior princess!!