Women getting Amrit

[Guest r k]

Mai Bhago had to ask explicit permission to Guru Gobind Singh to wear men's clothes which means that amritdhari women are not supposed to wear dastar unless they make the explicit statment that they become thrid gender amazones. As per maryada of Budha Dal women who fight cannot be killed on the battlefield unless they are dressed as men because they become men!

Kirpan da amrit for women is still administred by Hazur Sahib and Budha Dal!!!"

that's INSANE ..

these people preach that for some reason women are inferior, so they're supposed to take amrit with a kirpaan rather than a proper khanda.. it's sad but true that they administer this 'amrit' to girls at Hazur Sahib..

someone should tell these people that the khalsa has no gender

[Gupt_Singh]

lalleshvari is one of those people who never provides any references to what he says

look at puratan rehatnamas like bhai daya singhs "women should wear a topknot on the top of their head" and sau sakhi saying always wear a keski, its clear that the concept of keski for women was there since the beginning as a compulsory thing.........

i dont post their anymore but i wouldnt believe a word lalleshvari says. on that same post he makes a comment saying that women who wear keskis look like men. pretty ironic coming from someone who looks like he grew up in a dumpster (look at his picture on www.shiachat.com :e: )

[serenity]

The original question I beleive was about kirpan dha amrit, on the other forum a man named amrit has said he has seen the amrit being given at Hazoor Sahib. :T:

I myself am someone who has always held this takht in high esteem, and apparently they still do things the way they used to be done, ie have not changed with the times.

However a question was aksed about proof of women being given amrit in general, and on that site no such proof has been given.

Is there documented evidence for women being given amrit by Guru Gobind Singh Ji? As I myself am interested in taking amrit, this question means alot to me. I dont just mean Mata Bhag Kaur Ji, I mean the Guru's own mehals, mother, Sikh women. :

[Gupt_Singh]

serenity looking for any time of history on women is very hard. its likely there were alot more mata bhag kaurs that have simply not been documented throughout sikh history becuase all sikh historians were men and so women were often pushed to the sidelines.

even information on 1699 we have is a little sketchy - we have stuff like sri gur sobha and guru kian sakhian, but the fact is much history has been destroyed over the years, this is why we even have people disagreeing on what the 5th kakkar is.

just like its hard to find puratan info on any stuff like 1699, its hard to find exactly the phrase "guru gobind singh gave amrit to a woman called x"

amrit for women is IMPLIED alot. for example the words singhnee sikhni are often used, and parts of the rehat meant for women (head coverings, etc) are also documented. the rehat only applied to baptised sikhs so its obvious that guru ji must have baptised women.

charan di paul form of amrit was around since guru nanaks time and there is historical info that proves it was given to women (janamsakhis). there is thus no reason to believe that when guru gobind singh replaced charan di paul with khanda di paul, he would have just stopped giving amrit to women.

mata sahib kaur was the MOTHER of the KHALSA and guru gobind singh was the FATHER. guru gobind singh got down on his knees and took amrit from the panj (even this is not thoroughly documented althoguh appears in reliable souces, proving how sketchy sikh history can be) there is no reason why an non-khalsa woman would be the head of the khalsa!

the bottom line is its blatantly obvious women did get amrit as they had done for 100s of years before, just

because it is not explicitly said "women took khanda di paul" its pretty much said in an implied way alot of other places. i can guarantee u this, so dont hav any hesitations taking amrit....when the panj pyare are around guru gobind singh is there too

[Guest Akaal108]

Bikkie if you want to post my stuff.. atleast post it full.. what is it?? take three lines out and posting it here and leavin the rest of it---

This is what i post...

Dear lalleshvari veer ji,

I always being interested to know bit more about kirpan da amrit.. Can you shed more light on this matter??

For example-

Hows is it done??? Same way through panj pyarei(male) or panj pyareiiiz(female)...

whats the difference between kirpan da amrit or khandaie da phaul amrit???

Its just i m very much like to know.. i might bring my future wife( if she is non-amrit dhari) to expereince kirpan da amrit at hazor sahib...and be an buddhal dal nihangani...since i m very much beleive in variety of flavours within sikhi praticised in the household

akaaaaaaaaaaaaal hee akaaaaal

anand hii anand

If you notice there was a question directed to him with an humor... .. then upong gettin no responses.. steele bangle this time asked him in harsh manner..

until laalesh or anyone else who can provide historical evidence of kirpan da amrit... and not just "its available at hazoor sahib"... then this matter is not to be talked about again on this board - from its description it seems ver

y sexist, only a single pyara recites the banis? and what a woman isnt good enough to drink from the same bata as a man??

how can this amrit be valid?.. when we have the likes of laalesh sayin without dasam granth present at amrit sanchar - ur amrit is invalid..... well what about if a man takes this so called kirpan da amrit.... only has 5 pauriya recited and doesnt have to wear a kachera..... or a dastar... is this amrit valid???

im pretty sick of people mentioning things and then havin nothing to back up their claims and then runnin around in circles - if theres no DECENT evidence of these claims then you will recieve a warning for the intension to mislead members of the board

Then Khalsa Soulja comes along.... spread the hate towards mod's, site...and then i came on the site.. Banned him for good... MADE MY DAY

[serenity]

Thankyou Khalsa Soulja, however, I think that women who were blessed with amrit at the hands of Dhan Guru Gobind Singh Ji would have made a note of it somewhere, or even their ancestors would have done. Where are the descendents of Guru Ki mehals?

Much is made of history being lost, but much history still flourishes, out of that, surely there must be some mention of amrit for women. I don't get it, I'm asking to those that have had the time to research the old articles, scriptures, books.

This is a big fundamental thing is sikhism, surely there must be a rehitnama Mata Sahib Kaur Ji would have written for women? Does anyone know of this?

[Gupt_Singh]

Thankyou Khalsa Soulja, however, I think that women who were blessed with amrit at the hands of Dhan Guru Gobind Singh Ji would have made a note of it somewhere, or even their ancestors would have done. Where are the descendents of Guru Ki mehals?

plez dont overestimate desi history, becuz its an absolute joke. did u know that recently, a really old bir just got stolen by some old man? theres no security, theres no order to sikh history, unfortunately. we only just found out about the bhatt vahis, probably one of the most reliable source of history around, because of pyare singh padam. and because of them, the scholars have "corrected" alot of dates which every other book has had wrong, and we have been celebrating wrongly for like 200 odd years, lol.

Much is made of history being lost, but much history still flourishes, out of that, surely there must be some mention of amrit for women. I don't get it, I'm asking to those that have had the time to research the old articles, scriptures, books.

penji im sure there are. most people say banda singh bahadur didnt take amrit (Becuz he is called banda bahadur by many). and no one can argue with them because

we dont have any historical sources to prove it. then Ganda singh, a well known historian, trawls through loads of islamic history books, goes thru persian accounts etc etc and finds about 10 odd sources which prove he took amrit. until the scholars have a proper hunt thru different sources, not all of history can be totally backed up.

This is a big fundamental thing is sikhism, surely there must be a rehitnama Mata Sahib Kaur Ji would have written for women? Does anyone know of this?

mata sahib kaur wrote a few hukamnamas i believe, but im not sure. even in ganda singhs hukamanas book, it is a fact that over half are fake.

what im tryna get across is, dont look for an explicit reference because unfortunately sikh history isnt like that. in banda singh bahadurs time, anyone who was sikh would get killed and their killer would get money from the mughal leaders. sikhs got put down to VERY low numbers. no one took any historical details down since they were all out fighting......

bhai gurdas says in varan, "one is only a sikh once blessed with amrit". even mardana, who people assume was a muslim, actually took amrit, according to the janamsakhis, from guru nanak. ANYONE who followed the guru would HAVE to take amrit, otherwise there was no point in them following the rehat - a far cry from the situation we have today

because we have specifically written rehatnamas that address women, and a REHATnama gives a part of the REHAT, and one followed the REHAT if they were a SIKH, and if one was a SIKH they HAD to take amrit, its obvious that women did take amrit.

the use of words

like SINGHNEE in historical texts make it obvious that women must have taken amrit - people werent called SINGH back then unless they actually were SINGH..

i really dont have that much knowledge on these subjects so that is all the info i can give you.

n30 singh:

Then Khalsa Soulja comes along.... spread the hate towards mod's, site...

cuz i said it was RSS?

and then i came on the site.. Banned him for good... MADE MY DAY  

wow, your days must be so exciting if that was no1 event!

i think im going to sit in the corner and cry, because ive been banned from some RSS website which smells faintly of holy cow

just as an banned persons request, PLEASE can u put back up that link to lalleshvaris picture in the post???????? PLEZ PLEZ PLEZ with BAHMAN ON TOP!!!!!!

[>Bikramjit Singh<]

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

N30 Singh

Upto a few weeks ago Sikhawareness had only ever banned one person, a Muslim spreading BS about Sikhi. In the last 2 weeks at least three people have been banned !. You must be having the time of your life.. all that power !!

GurFateh

Bikramjit

[V]

it cna be useful to read the complete thread instead of just commenting with out knowing what really happened :

http://www.sikhawareness.com/sikhawareness...er=asc&start=15

Gurfateh!

[guruvah]

100 year ago.....bibian were only given amrit >>by "kirpan da amrit!"..........but baba attar singh jee was againtzz this"kirpan da amrit!".........thatz why if u see.........most of the amrit sacharz today give khandey batey da amrit to both genderz........i thought this SO-CALLED"KIRPAN DA AMRIT WAS NO MORE".....but it is still around .........we have to do something!