Marriage And Divorce Trends

[cksingh]

in my observation, i have notice a trend in peoples general attitudes towards divorce; it is becoming more and more acceptable even within our own amritdhari community.

from what gurbani tells us, marriage is not a bond between two people, but rather their bond with the guru ji. as a society, we're taking it upon ourselves to decide what is good for us and who we should be with, whereas we are ignoring waheguru ji's hukum.

it is hipocritical for people to say its to advance their sikhi, when the attitude of getting divorce goes against any hukum. We are essentially taking happiness in our own hand, and we are ignoring the vow we took in maharaj's hazoori, as well as the supreme hukum we were ordered. We are meant to be with the particular person through better or for worse, and help them attain understanding. By helping them, we are also helping ourselves and our own patience, undstanding of life, and people. if a spouse cannot give unconditional love, other then guru ji, who can.

the underlying issue here is our ego. because we are not satisifed, and this person is not fufilling certain desires, we look other places and this is wrong. let it be known. there are many cases where there is violence, and to protect one's self they can leave for safety if all other options are exhausted.

however, to pretect one's self is one thing; to divorce and remarry, in any situation, is simply wrong. If one person did not bring you your happiness, what makes you sure the new person will? Only Guru ji can make you happy, in any situation.

more and more we are forfeiting to western cultures 'me' and 'I' attitudes. "When 'I' am not satisifed and you are not fufilling 'me' and 'my' needs, i will take my business elsewhere."

The reason i mention this is our weakening attitudes. We are becoming complacent and many of us are contorting sikhi to justify our own needs. A certain sect of christianity was started solely to make divorce supposedly 'legal' in the eyes of god, and St Thomas more, a priest, became a martyr to defend the sanctity of his religion.

anyhow, this is something i have noticed. half the couples in n.a. are not married, and their lazy attitudes towards a moral marriage are non-existent. as sikhs, we need to realize sikhi is to lose ego and realize god, not to fufil the desires of the mind and body.

[Hardeep__singh]

in my observation, i have notice a trend in peoples general attitudes towards divorce; it is becoming more and more acceptable even within our own amritdhari community.

from what gurbani tells us, marriage is not a bond between two people, but rather their bond with the guru ji. as a society, we're taking it upon ourselves to decide what is good for us and who we should be with, whereas we are ignoring waheguru ji's hukum.

it is hipocritical for people to say its to advance their sikhi, when the attitude of getting divorce goes against any hukum. We are essentially taking happiness in our own hand, and we are ignoring the vow we took in maharaj's hazoori, as well as the supreme hukum we were ordered. We are meant to be with the particular person through better or for worse, and help them attain understanding. By helping them, we are also helping ourselves and our own patience, undstanding of life, and people. if a spouse cannot give unconditional love, other then guru ji, who can.

the underlying issue here is our ego. because we are not satisifed, and this person is not fufilling certain desires, we look other places and this is wrong. let it be known. there are many cases where there is violence, and to protect one's self they can leave for safety if all other options are exhausted.

however, to pretect one's self is one thing; to divorce and remarry, in any situation, is simply wrong. If one person did not bring you your happiness, what makes you sure the new person will? Only Guru ji can make you happy, in any situation.

more and more we are forfeiting to western cultures 'me' and 'I' attitudes. "When 'I' am not satisifed and you are not fufilling 'me' and 'my' needs, i will take my business elsewhere."

The reason i mention this is our weakening attitudes. We are becoming complacent and many of us are contorting sikhi to justify our own needs. A certain sect of christianity was started solely to make divorce supposedly 'legal' in the eyes of god, and St Thomas more, a priest, became a martyr to defend the sanctity of his religion.

anyhow, this is something i have noticed. half the couples in n.a. are not married, and their lazy attitudes towards a moral marriage are non-existent. as sikhs, we need to realize sikhi is to lose ego and realize god, not to fufil the desires of the mind and body.

All in all, if one partner is very violent in which his/her behaviour cannot be tolerated any longer then its justified to be divorced.

[cksingh]

would you agree to an actual legal divorce, or just live separate?

i think the purpose of divorce becomes a legal issue, where one is allowed to remarry, which is wrong.

in the older days, noone knew what a divorce was.

[Hardeep__singh]

would you agree to an actual legal divorce, or just live separate?

i think the purpose of divorce becomes a legal issue, where one is allowed to remarry, which is wrong.

in the older days, noone knew what a divorce was.

If one seeks a happy life with another, and has suffered physical violence, I think perhaps it is justified to divorce and remarry.

If however a divorce for one is just a game and an escape to seek a better partner materialistically, is however wrong.

I dont know the history of divorce back in the days, they probably had another word or something else in place for it.

Sorry back to the original question would I agree, it really depends on the circumstances, on what measures would you quantify that you have to have a divorce and that there are no other means.

[cksingh]

singh ji, we have to incorporate gurbani into all of this. you should read my first post closer as to what i was saying. you said:

If one seeks a happy life with another

if we have a clear understanding of gurbani, we realize what true happiness is. in my original post, and in gurbani, its mentioned that the only true love and true happiness is from the guru, and from within saadh sangat.

Guru ji warns us to stop chasing this so called happiness we have become accustomed to. one can not seek happiness or attain happiness from another human, or any other material thing. If one person gets the best of us, do we turn another person or to guru ji? He already warns us that all relationships are false, and that household anxiety is the worst anxiety. Gurbani is based upon destroying ego, and to control the duniyavi pleasures which we enjoy. We take four trips around the guru ji with the person he himself assigned us to. Who are we to tell him he is wrong? Our own karam placed us with that person, to against such hukum is disobeying the guru.

We have to stop thinking on a earthly level. We are not here to marry, to get the best jobs, biggest houses etc etc...we are here to defeat the mind and become one with waheguru all within the life and situations he setup for us, based on our own karm. By running to other people for sukh is leading a trap for ourself.

[Harmeet_Singh]

Ho many marriages actually end up in divorce because of abuse?

Im guessing its only a fraction.

[Hardeep__singh]

singh ji, we have to incorporate gurbani into all of this. you should read my first post closer as to what i was saying. you said:

If one seeks a happy life with another

if we have a clear understanding of gurbani, we realize what true happiness is. in my original post, and in gurbani, its mentioned that the only true love and true happiness is from the guru, and from within saadh sangat.

Guru ji warns us to stop chasing this so called happiness we have become accustomed to. one can not seek happiness or attain happiness from another human, or any other material thing. If one person gets the best of us, do we turn another person or to guru ji? He already warns us that all relationships are false, and that household anxiety is the worst anxiety. Gurbani is based upon destroying ego, and to control the duniyavi pleasures which we enjoy. We take four trips around the guru ji with the person he himself assigned us to. Who are we to tell him he is wrong? Our own karam placed us with that person, to against such hukum is disobeying the guru.

We have to stop thinking on a earthly level. We are not here to marry, to get the best jobs, biggest houses etc etc...we are here to defeat the mind and become one with waheguru all within the life and situations he setup for us, based on our own karm. By running to other people for sukh is leading a trap for ourself.

Let me ask you a question and god forbid this will not happen..

1) If your married and your partner gives you physical tormentation etc and you are not happy and you turn to Guru ji, but still tormenting happens, and as you say divorce isnt the answer, what will you do in this situation?

It depends on each human being, would you like to re-marry, if you do, and its in your karam to get married again then the Guru will allow you to, though being happy in the relationship OR Gurus will maybe that you dont and become single and you become heavily devoted to Guru Granth sahib ji. It all depends, you can be married and devote your time too....well if all relationships are false, then how would you expect the Sikh community to grow, and we do want it to grow. What Guru ji is saying that this is a dreamland we are on is false, but we also know he was married too as well as nearly all Gurus, so is this a contradiction?

Well its not a contradiction, if Guru ji was married doesnt mean to say his relationship was false with his wife, however he said he sees all the world as false. When you are married you make a submission to Guru ji and though doing anand karaj, linking with Guru ji is not a false relationship, all other relationships maybe false.

[Hardeep__singh]

We live in a society where marriage has lost it’s value. Fifty percent of marriages are ending in divorce. Why? Because the purpose of marriage is not understood. Furthermore, people have little support in the journey of their soul and little support in their community.

In the Sikh marriage ceremony we are offered a way to bring this support into our lives. Guru Ram Das has given us a formula for a successful marriage in the form of four rounds (Laava(n)), four concepts. In fact, he describes for us the sacred journey of the soul merging with the infinite. When applied to marriage it results in happiness and fulfillment.

The Sikh man and woman marry to help one another on the spiritual path, surely. Marriage is also a cozy haven of love and joy in this world. However, one's main support and mainstay is God and in one's ability to access that Source of Life. The gift to the Sikh is the Siri Guru Granth Sahib. Why does the couple circle the Siri Guru Granth Sahib as they commit to each round? It is not just a ritual. You are making a commitment with the Guru as witness. And as you circle the Siri Guru Granth Sahib you are reminded that the Guru is the center of your life, from which springs your life and the understanding of the journey of the soul crossing this world ocean. The Siri Guru Granth Sahib represents the core of you. The Sadh Sangat is your support system.

Marriage is a spiritual identity, not just a love affair between two people. The focus of marriage is not romantic love or physical liaison, though these aspects of marriage naturally bring their own delight. The Sikh marriage is all about love, but what kind of love? It is the Love of the Soul-bride for God, that longing to merge with the Infinite. A Sikh marriage is two people trying to help one another in this merger. The highest love is assisting another in the merger of the soul with the infinite, helping the Beloved to find the true purpose of their life.

The four nuptial rounds were written by Guru Ram Das for his own wedding. In them he tells us that the first commitment is for one to be true to one's own soul, to be committed to righteousness, be on the spiritual path and communicate with the soul through personal spiritual practice.

Then he tells the couple that they have met the True Guru, they can get out of their ego identification and sacrifice to the unity, to the merger, and rise above their personalities and judgements. Commit to the institution of marriage as part of one’s spiritual path.

Next, he or she tells the couple that they have been blessed to be a part of the Sadh Sangat, and that their lives should be an example of service and divinity to all around them, to fulfill the great destiny they have been given.

Finally, the Guru says that the merger has taken place with the Infinite, because one has followed his advice. Each has inspired the other towards that merger.

[cksingh]

so what are you saying....?

[Hardeep__singh]

so what are you saying....?

In reality, well I think one should be a devoted in Sikhi, misfortunes happen and you got to be prepared in every case, and take the step that suits you.