Anti Beadbi Campaigns

[Sarbloh]

Below are some of my concerns about the approach of the anti beadbi campaigns in the UK. Despite being one of the strongest and most established Sikh community outside India, we are no where near united in one leadership.

It seems the anti beadbi campaigns are reacting to situations every time rather than working proactively, which is the stage they SHOULD be at NOW after almost 3 years on. I have never heard the R4G campaign holding large scale parchar and gatherings up and down the country continually to educate the Sikh masses and the Gurdwara parbandhaks (who are largely the irresponsible individuals with very little sikhi or common sense).

The best way to counter beadbi is to involve and increase the knowledge and learning among the Sikh sangats, run active learning process where the Sikh sangats participate in daily care and respect of the saroop of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji during daily prayers and ceremonies. This will increase the involvement of local Sikh sangats, offering them opportunities to take control over their own areas and their own Gurdwaras. The field is now open to a Singh Sabha type large scale movement among local sikh sangats over this issue.

Some Sikhs are having great concerns the direction the present campaigns may take. If it simply continues on this road, all we may end up doing is to expose the campaigns as nothing short of fanatical individuals, finally segregating the beadbi campaigns to a bunch of riot seeking fanatics comparable to any other religious zeolots. Be careful we do not fall into that trap by ensuring a jevaans are strong (including me)!!! This is not what they should become, neither only the crowd that gathers only to make “force" respect for Sri Guru Granth sahib Ji.

The danger with the growing egos is that the Sikh youth are not going to understand the dire need to turn the anti beadbi campaigns diplomatic and into a Sikh sangat movement. We need to connect the Panth together where there will be no need to force large protests to counter issues over the respect for Sri Guru Granth sahib Ji, each and every time, and causing almost riot like situations which we seem to struggle to justify when confronted by the media and even other Sikhs.

What are your opinions?

[Guest Dancing Warrior]

Below are some of my concerns about the approach of the anti beadbi campaigns in the UK. Despite being one of the strongest and most established Sikh community outside India, we are no where near united in one leadership.

It seems the anti beadbi campaigns are reacting to situations every time rather than working proactively, which is the stage they SHOULD be at NOW after almost 3 years on. I have never heard the R4G campaign holding large scale parchar and gatherings up and down the country continually to educate the Sikh masses and the Gurdwara parbandhaks (who are largely the irresponsible individuals with very little sikhi or common sense).

The best way to counter beadbi is to involve and increase the knowledge and learning among the Sikh sangats, run active learning process where the Sikh sangats participate in daily care and respect of the saroop of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji during daily prayers and ceremonies. This will increase the involvement of local Sikh sangats, offering them opportunities to take control over their own areas and their own Gurdwaras. The field is now open to a Singh Sabha type large scale movement among local sikh sangats over this issue.

Some Sikhs are having great concerns the direction the present campaigns may take. If it simply continues on this road, all we may end up doing is to expose the campaigns as nothing short of fanatical individuals, finally segregating the beadbi campaigns to a bunch of riot seeking fanatics comparable to any other religious zeolots. Be careful we do not fall into that trap by ensuring a jevaans are strong (including me)!!! This is not what they should become, neither only the crowd that gathers only to make “force" respect for Sri Guru Granth sahib Ji.

The danger with the growing egos is that the Sikh youth are not going to understand the dire need to turn the anti beadbi campaigns diplomatic and into a Sikh sangat movement. We need to connect the Panth together where there will be no need to force large protests to counter issues over the respect for Sri Guru Granth sahib Ji, each and every time, and causing almost riot like situations which we seem to struggle to justify when confronted by the media and even other Sikhs.

What are your opinions?

I could not agree with you more, there needs to be diplomacy and education geared towards unity, a common think tank amongst the more learned on such issues within the panth would be of very useful.

The Guru Granth should be far reaching, educating, enlightening all those who thirst for it. The foot of the Guru can step anywhere at any time we should be there being students and teachers at the same time, embracing all, equality to all, blind to discrimination and prejudices.

It is easier to reach out to others, genuinely, graciously, truly, then to disfigure and distort slapping your own backs.

Fools do you not see it is the Guru who has saved you! Yet you think you are saviours of the Guru! Where is the Beadbi?

[akaash]

Judging by the attitude of many on this forum, I dont think they are capable of engaging in parchar and Gurmat discussion with others.

All they will say is "Your a Sikh, You do something" or "Why dont you lead on the Leeds issue"

Come out of your shells and do parchar to the sangat. R4G doesnt want to take the route that will have greatest effect on the UK Sikhs. Instead they prefer the one day mob/hooligan approach with a outcome from which the can brag and produce self glorifying videos!!

Think about Guru Granth Sahib and how beabdi can actually be stopped!!! Engage with the Sangat who are ignorant about respect for SGGS.

You will find out soon or later that parchar was and is the only way forward.

In all the ek niwas/ Baba Wadbhag Singh stuff not one on this forum gave an insight from Rehat Maryada or Akal Takht Hukamnamas about why Guru Granth Sahib must not be with murtis. Instead they tried to cover up smashing murtis at Baba Wadbhag and justified actions by making people feel guilty for not being there!!

Without Gyan there is no JEET. With Gyan of Gurmat and Rehit you can win all battles without lifting a finger. Thats a fact. We are not fighting an enemy, we are fight ingorance. You cannot say all doing beadbi are enemies of the panth, they are our sangat who need educating. Knowledge is never gained my protests and within a day. It will take time, but why are we worried, SGGS is eternal and so is the Khalsa.

[singh_comradz]

Being proactive is something we all should do, its not down to just some Sikhs.

[Sarbloh]

Being proactive is something we all should do, its not down to just some Sikhs.

It is the “some Sikhs” who seem to be able to influence (I would even be bold enough to say manipulate) the majority of us. There is no doubt that if it was not for the R4G campaign, the young sangat would not have started noticing beadbi, even though ironically these issues have existed for a long time. But now are the youth thinking for themselves or are they being lead to issues out of fear of being branded a deserter to sikhi?!!! Does the individual understand why they have turned up to a protest and have they really analysed what a successful outcome should be?!!!

[singh_comradz]

Being proactive is something we all should do, its not down to just some Sikhs.

It is the “some Sikhs” who seem to be able to influence (I would even be bold enough to say manipulate) the majority of us. There is no doubt that if it was not for the R4G campaign, the young sangat would not have started noticing beadbi, even though ironically these issues have existed for a long time. But now are the youth thinking for themselves or are they being lead to issues out of fear of being branded a deserter to sikhi?!!! Does the individual understand why they have turned up to a protest and have they really analysed what a successful outcome should be?!!!

Yep

[Bir_Ras]

Sorry but i have to agree we must unite and stop beadbi. WE should unite together and have a meeting discuss our actions then do action on them. I heard the protest was going to be a peacefull one. Before all the diehard kharkoos throw the story about a brick in my face. Id like to point out i agree with stopping beadbi, but to stop to beadbi we shouldnt resort to violence unless it puts someones life in danger. Gursikhs such as bhai fauja singh had such a high jeevan that when him and his comerades went to put a stop to gurbachna using the SGGS as a stepping stone a peacefull protest was agreed upon, at all costs. Various gunmen tried to shoot him down, yet he only uttered waheguru waheguru waheguru. The R4G singhs need to take a deep look inside and ask themselves why couldnt we be patient and ignore the bricks. Their mind wasnt with waheguru thats why, manmat came back into play and they got worried about their injuries. When gurbachna threatend singhs back in the day with guns and rains of bullets they didnt run, scream or retaliate, they uttered waheguru, they accepted the gurus decision, and as the nihangs say charyee kargay.

Sorry if this distresses the people that were present but im not condemning you, but i am condemning your motives as before arrivbing their was an agreement that there would be no need for violence.

[AK-47]

Sarbloh ...

Singhs are already and have been working on preparing literature, videos, workshops, presentations, parcharaks with kirtani jatha's, a whole 'road show' if you like that will go around the country and with guru ji's kirpa re-educate the sangat about the importance of guru granth sahib ji. this will both in english and punjabi to hit all generations. As im sure you will appreciate this will take some time. Given that most of the singhs who help with the campaign are also either working/students, engage in arranging progs at their gurdwara's, sikh societies, katha/gatka classes, they already have a huge workload of parchar on their plates. However with guru jis kirpa they will get this seva done also.

Unlike some, you may be aware that the level of parchar done by younger singhs and singhnia is growing and growing across the UK and other countries. Sikhi has always encougared parchar, which is being done, but it also teaches to stand up for what is right, which is also being done. No matter how much some individuals will cry and cry the seva will continue in all its shapes and forms.

Unfortunetly, to able to do this type of seva means you must step up to the line. Some do this via their bhagti, but for most it is via the blessings of maharajh that they are given the opportunity to do parchar seva. However, unless we try, how can we suceed. If you want to actually help out and not just cry and moan and do nindiya of others, and just throw mud, then do ardas to vaheguru and get involved with real seva. Whether people like it or not, seva will mean taking hours out of your daily routines, it means you cant just jot down a few lines on sikh sangat and feel good about how smart you are for tryin to knock other sikhs down. it means doing the research of gurbani, it means preparing presentations, preparing talks, organising kirtan darbars, jumping into mini buses and driving up and down the country and via the sweat of your brow doing the seva!

To avoid confusion, personally i have nothing to do with organising anything for R4G, im just a joe blogs from the street, so this is by no means an announcment from those gursikhs. Im sure, in fact i know my brothers are busy with countless tasks and probably dont have time to argue over the internet.

So unfortunetly just to repeat from other threads, if you have GENUINE concerns, then please call the R4G guys, they would be more than happy to speak to people and have more sangat get involved!!! Those people who ARE genuine will call them and express their worries, and will take an active role going forward, those who just talk, will continue to do jus that ... talk. And yes brother, i am still waiting for you to LEAD on leeds, or even sunderland now that you raised that issue. apparantly the singhs are asleep and chal at least your awake, lets see your GENUINE input on how to get it resloved rather than just cry and moan about other singhs! :TH:

Bir ras, your points are well taken, but you chose one example from history, there are also countless more. You spoke in your last line about what nihang singhs say, there is also another bhangti you should be aware of .. 'gur ki ninda sooneh na khan ...' i'll let you finish the rest off yourself :lol: And further to your example, dont forget that within a few years of that incident, the majority of the narakdhari leadership had been assasinated by the singhs. Nobody has spoken about anything like that here and nor do i recommend it, so lets keep this in context.

There was another gursikh at that time who also spoke about guru jis beadbi, im sure we have all heard his speeches and are aware of what his view was to do with those who disrespect guru ji ..., but we all know that were not going to go down that line, so i wont go into that veechar in any more detail.

Finally i think we should stop using old phrases like 'r4g singhs'. exactlly what does that mean?! The singhs who help out are Guru Gobind Singh Ji's singhs, please dont make this into another jatha, we have more than enough of these!!

On a final note, im sure the singhs are taking everyones egnuine and sincere comments on board. the silly ones are probably making them laugh! but back to the point, on a personal note i do a benti to everyone to get involved as much as you can. if not directly with this project then with the countless others happening. do make a difference we have to be active and get off our backsides, please can we all make an effort to us all contributing something back to our community via parchar and seva? Talking and talking will only lead to more talking, get involved and make the difference!

Apologies if i said anything wrong.

Apologies, the news item on the right side regarding the situation in California needs to be resolved asap. The house of Guru Nanak Dev Ji should not be supporting acts of drinking alocohol and meat etc. The report suggests that only a 'small number' oppose it. Please can the US sangat get on top of this and let them know that we are feel passionate and oppose this.

For the UK guys, lets just keep going, its going to be a long process sorting all this mess out but all we can do is try! :TH:

[akaash]

Sarbloh ...

Singhs are already and have been working on preparing literature, videos, workshops, presentations, parcharaks with kirtani jatha's, a whole 'road show' if you like that will go around the country and with guru ji's kirpa re-educate the sangat about the importance of guru granth sahib ji. this will both in english and punjabi to hit all generations. As im sure you will appreciate this will take some time. Given that most of the singhs who help with the campaign are also either working/students, engage in arranging progs at their gurdwara's, sikh societies, katha/gatka classes, they already have a huge workload of parchar on their plates. However with guru jis kirpa they will get this seva done also.

Unlike some, you may be aware that the level of parchar done by younger singhs and singhnia is growing and growing across the UK and other countries. Sikhi has always encougared parchar, which is being done, but it also teaches to stand up for what is right, which is also being done. No matter how much some individuals will cry and cry the seva will continue in all its shapes and forms.

Unfortunetly, to able to do this type of seva means you must step up to the line. Some do this via their bhagti, but for most it is via the blessings of maharajh that they are given the opportunity to do parchar seva. However, unless we try, how can we suceed. If you want to actually help out and not just cry and moan and do nindiya of others, and just throw mud, then do ardas to vaheguru and get involved with real seva. Whether people like it or not, seva will mean taking hours out of your daily routines, it means you cant just jot down a few lines on sikh sangat and feel good about how smart you are for tryin to knock other sikhs down. it means doing the research of gurbani, it means preparing presentations, preparing talks, organising kirtan darbars, jumping into mini buses and driving up and down the country and via the sweat of your brow doing the seva!

To avoid confusion, personally i have nothing to do with organising anything for R4G, im just a joe blogs from the street, so this is by no means an announcment from those gursikhs. Im sure, in fact i know my brothers are busy with countless tasks and probably dont have time to argue over the internet.

So unfortunetly just to repeat from other threads, if you have GENUINE concerns, then please call the R4G guys, they would be more than happy to speak to people and have more sangat get involved!!! Those people who ARE genuine will call them and express their worries, and will take an active role going forward, those who just talk, will continue to do jus that ... talk. And yes brother, i am still waiting for you to LEAD on leeds, or even sunderland now that you raised that issue. apparantly the singhs are asleep and chal at least your awake, lets see your GENUINE input on how to get it resloved rather than just cry and moan about other singhs! :TH:

Bir ras, your points are well taken, but you chose one example from history, there are also countless more. You spoke in your last line about what nihang singhs say, there is also another bhangti you should be aware of .. 'gur ki ninda sooneh na khan ...' i'll let you finish the rest off yourself :lol: And further to your example, dont forget that within a few years of that incident, the majority of the narakdhari leadership had been assasinated by the singhs. Nobody has spoken about anything like that here and nor do i recommend it, so lets keep this in context.

There was another gursikh at that time who also spoke about guru jis beadbi, im sure we have all heard his speeches and are aware of what his view was to do with those who disrespect guru ji ..., but we all know that were not going to go down that line, so i wont go into that veechar in any more detail.

Finally i think we should stop using old phrases like 'r4g singhs'. exactlly what does that mean?! The singhs who help out are Guru Gobind Singh Ji's singhs, please dont make this into another jatha, we have more than enough of these!!

On a final note, im sure the singhs are taking everyones egnuine and sincere comments on board. the silly ones are probably making them laugh! but back to the point, on a personal note i do a benti to everyone to get involved as much as you can. if not directly with this project then with the countless others happening. do make a difference we have to be active and get off our backsides, please can we all make an effort to us all contributing something back to our community via parchar and seva? Talking and talking will only lead to more talking, get involved and make the difference!

Apologies if i said anything wrong.

Apologies, the news item on the right side regarding the situation in California needs to be resolved asap. The house of Guru Nanak Dev Ji should not be supporting acts of drinking alocohol and meat etc. The report suggests that only a 'small number' oppose it. Please can the US sangat get on top of this and let them know that we are feel passionate and oppose this.

For the UK guys, lets just keep going, its going to be a long process sorting all this mess out but all we can do is try! :TH:

If we are talking as Gursikh brothers and sisters then Guru Ji will give us the answers to move forward. Our sangat is our sangat. We cannot force them to rise, we can however improve them.

Issues of Beadbis are not clear cut. Guru Ji will test his Sikhs like in Ek Niwas. Many thought the issue was closed when they agreed to stop SGGS at the place, however instead the started prakas of Senchis. Guru Ji is telling us the problem is not as simple as protesting for a day. It will take efforts to change people's attitudes.

How do we stop these Gurdwara halls? Protesting will not achieve anything. Instead we have to change the attitude of the sangat for them to feel it is wrong to have a party there. This is not a attitude of putting other people down, its being realistic and the most effective way of combating beadbi.

[DeepiKaur]

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh!!

I completly agree with this. By doing all these protest that last for one day isnt teaching us anything but hatred against others, Guru Ji has also created those people. Where is our humbleness gone? Where is our pyare? Where is our True Sikhi gone? We are not Mahaan Sikhs that we can go around telling everyone whats right and whats wrong, thats Guru Ji's job, we can only talk to sangat, do parchar and gain there pyare then we are able to make things right together as Sangat with Guru Ji's blessings.

Also bad parchar against other religions i feel is very wrong. Guru Teg Buhadar Ji gave there life up for a complete different religion, so why are we against these people.....

We need to gain the Sangat pyare, whether there sikh, hindu or muslim, we need to teach them about our Sikhi and we need to learn for ourself but we have to put our all in our Guru Ji.