Anti Beadbi Campaigns

[AK-47]

I repeat again and again, ik niwas has been happening for 15 years!! for 15 years singhs have been trying to resolve the issue there. at certain times people gave up, but then they tried again.. over the last 6 or 7 MONTHS the issue was brought to a head. this is not one day but as i say years of effort!

The freedom to protest is a pillar stone of democracy and the civilised world praises itself on the fact that its citizens can protest without fear of prosecution (however the police seem to be able to bend rules to suit themselves - however another topic another time!). How can we say protests achieve nothing? A single protest will not solve a problem, just like a single A4 piece of literature will not solve the issue. protests form part of the solution, talks, literature are all part of the solution. A protest is an extremely powerful expression of opinion. It shows that people are passionate and care enough to actually physically stand,sit, run jump etc whatever it is for the cause of their choice. Protest can swing opinions and protests can bring political change. I dont want to start a political essay on the benefits of the show of punlic support via protest, but it is obvious that protests are useful and can add benefit to the cause that they support.

Penji, how is a protest a sign of hatred? If my brother does something wrong and i tell him to stop or i prevent him from doing the wrong thing.. does that mean i hate him? or does it mean that i care enough to make him stop? When singhs sat outside wedding halls doing kirtan, was that hatred? no, it was their pyaar that made them sit there. they didnt hate the people at the wedding, they understood that they were misguided, but being misguided is no excuse, it was and is singhs responsibility to make sure these mistakes dont happen. I would say that it takes a mahaan sikh to sit in a street and do kirtan while people swear at him and threaten to knock his dastaar off. This isnt a movement of hate against anyone, its a movement of pyaar for guru granth sahib ji.

Again penji, the campaign or these efforts are not about attacking other faiths/religions. Sikhs respect the right of others to worship in the way that they wish, however this cannot mean that disrespect is shown to guru granth sahib ji. nobody is against 'hindus or muslims or christians'. im not sure where you got that idea from at all. e.g when maharajh's saroop came out of ek niwas the entire sangat fell to their knees and mutha tekhed. the cops stepped back as they were so shocked at the sight of a few hundred sikhs bowing like that in the middle of the street. when guru ji went back to the gurdwara sahib the entire sangat followed behind maharajh, the nishaan sahibs were flying and the nagara was beating. singhs had tears of love in their eyes. even the police were amazed at the love the singhs showed for guru ji and they expressed that they never saw anything like this before. NOBODY stayed around ek niwas after maharajh went. people were there for love of guru ji not because of hatred of anyone or ek niwas. once maharajh was out, the singhs left the place to carry on with whatever they wanted.

as i said its a movement of love for our guru, and your right we have to put our all in our guru. so just like in the past when gurmukhs have taken out their own eyes in exchange for fire to warm up the bath of their guru, we should also be ready to do whatever it takes to do seva of our master.

[DeepiKaur]

I wasnt talking about Ek Nivas, i was saying in general. I have been to a few protests myself and i learnt nothing but intimidation against your own sangat.

As you are talking about Ek Nivas, well...I have seen the images to the Ek Nivas protest and i understand that this has been going on for years and i understand why the protest was happening, i understand how long the sangat sat outside to wait for Guru Ji to come out but where were Guru Ji's vastars? Where was Guru Ji's blanket to keep them warm from the cold? Where was the umbrella over Guru Ji as it was raining that day? Im sorry if ive missed these images but i didnt see them. Where was that pyare for Guru Ji?

Ive also seen the video clip to Baba Vadbhag in Greenford protest. What was that whole speech about in the Gurdwara?? "Cut off there tongue if someone says something against sikhi" etc.... what that taught me was hatered against other religions. I didnt learn anything positive from that speech but hatered again. So is that what Mahann Sikhs do? Is that what our Guru Ji's did? Is this what needs to be taught to the new generation? I personally dont think so.

[machete]

Sorry but i have to agree we must unite and stop beadbi. WE should unite together and have a meeting discuss our actions then do action on them. I heard the protest was going to be a peacefull one. Before all the diehard kharkoos throw the story about a brick in my face. Id like to point out i agree with stopping beadbi, but to stop to beadbi we shouldnt resort to violence unless it puts someones life in danger. Gursikhs such as bhai fauja singh had such a high jeevan that when him and his comerades went to put a stop to gurbachna using the SGGS as a stepping stone a peacefull protest was agreed upon, at all costs. Various gunmen tried to shoot him down, yet he only uttered waheguru waheguru waheguru. The R4G singhs need to take a deep look inside and ask themselves why couldnt we be patient and ignore the bricks. Their mind wasnt with waheguru thats why, manmat came back into play and they got worried about their injuries. When gurbachna threatend singhs back in the day with guns and rains of bullets they didnt run, scream or retaliate, they uttered waheguru, they accepted the gurus decision, and as the nihangs say charyee kargay.

Sorry if this distresses the people that were present but im not condemning you, but i am condemning your motives as before arrivbing their was an agreement that there would be no need for violence.

u havent got a clue about bhai fuaja singhs jeevan, the singhs just defended themselves. bhai fuaja singh took out his kirpan and managed to kill 3 nirankaris before attaining shaheedi, bhai fuaja singh fought against injustice and even severd time in prison for choppin of the head of a rapist. he was a saint soldier, the ek niwas people started the war a battle field was created that day, singhs dealt wid it.

[Sikh Soldier]

WJKK WJKF

Firstly all of this post is my opinion only.

I fell that what the R4G Sikhs (Sikhs, not Singhs, cuz alot of Singhneea were also present), had a good thing going. They had the set up, the contacts, and most importantly they had various case studies to refer back to (due to the fact that alot of beadbi had been stopped up and down the UK. Many of the R4G Sikhs both from London and Midlands have given their time, money, patience, resources and even thier freedom (many have been arrested) for the cause, and for this I say Bole Sonihaal, Sat Sri Akaal.

They ALWAYS were in contact with the respected families/organisations before and during any protests. This ensured that such protest by Gursikhs went as peacefully as possible and in many cases stopped the beadbi before it got to that stage. So education was also given.

In the time i've heard of and been imvolved with R4G (and i'm just an average 'joe' off the streets), I have seen many cases where beadbi has been stopped.

But recently I've seen factions occuring. Divisions in the UK Sikhi scene. Some people (and you know who you are) have created other campaigns which have different names and are also doing Guru's Seva, but are doing the same thing that R4G were doing. Why? Why the division? Considering R4G had the man power, the studies, the protocol, and the Sikhi all in place why didnt these people just join R4G (theres ALWAYS seva to do, and in Sikhi its all about 'The more the merrier').

Now, doing seva is brilliant, but doing seva together is better!

I dont want to bad mouth these people, but when seva was needed a few years ago with R4G, they 'werent available'/'were too busy', but now they got 'their own thing going on' they jumping in front of cameras, getting media attention, getting all the elder generation (and some do care, but most are just there for the publicity) and getting involved in certain issues which have NOTHING to do with them.

For example why come to Guru Nanak Gurudwara (Smethwick) and give it loads, when the LOCAL Smethwick sangat agreed that they would not get involved in the elders petty conflicts and instead attend a Rhensbhai down the road at Baba Sang Gurudwara (smethwick) peacefully.

And we all know what happened at Guru Nanak Gurudwara that night

Also the Ek Nivas thing STILL ISNT RESOLVED, and this is after how many years? Meeting after meeting. Contract after contract, and all to no avail!!! You've tried to stop beadbi which is good, but you tried to do it undercover and the facts speak for themselves, that the Ek Nivas issue is still not resolved.

So all I got to say is stop dividing, and unite. Stop trying to do undercover missions and get all the sangat involved. Stop doing whats best for your image/reputation and do whats best for the Khalsa Panth.

Remember, I'm just an average Joe of the streets, and if I can see all this, then you Gursikhs reading this must see and know alot more.

Bhul Chuk Maaf Karnee

[akaash]

I repeat again and again, ik niwas has been happening for 15 years!! for 15 years singhs have been trying to resolve the issue there. at certain times people gave up, but then they tried again.. over the last 6 or 7 MONTHS the issue was brought to a head. this is not one day but as i say years of effort!

The freedom to protest is a pillar stone of democracy and the civilised world praises itself on the fact that its citizens can protest without fear of prosecution (however the police seem to be able to bend rules to suit themselves - however another topic another time!). How can we say protests achieve nothing? A single protest will not solve a problem, just like a single A4 piece of literature will not solve the issue. protests form part of the solution, talks, literature are all part of the solution. A protest is an extremely powerful expression of opinion. It shows that people are passionate and care enough to actually physically stand,sit, run jump etc whatever it is for the cause of their choice. Protest can swing opinions and protests can bring political change. I dont want to start a political essay on the benefits of the show of punlic support via protest, but it is obvious that protests are useful and can add benefit to the cause that they support.

Penji, how is a protest a sign of hatred? If my brother does something wrong and i tell him to stop or i prevent him from doing the wrong thing.. does that mean i hate him? or does it mean that i care enough to make him stop? When singhs sat outside wedding halls doing kirtan, was that hatred? no, it was their pyaar that made them sit there. they didnt hate the people at the wedding, they understood that they were misguided, but being misguided is no excuse, it was and is singhs responsibility to make sure these mistakes dont happen. I would say that it takes a mahaan sikh to sit in a street and do kirtan while people swear at him and threaten to knock his dastaar off. This isnt a movement of hate against anyone, its a movement of pyaar for guru granth sahib ji.

Again penji, the campaign or these efforts are not about attacking other faiths/religions. Sikhs respect the right of others to worship in the way that they wish, however this cannot mean that disrespect is shown to guru granth sahib ji. nobody is against 'hindus or muslims or christians'. im not sure where you got that idea from at all. e.g when maharajh's saroop came out of ek niwas the entire sangat fell to their knees and mutha tekhed. the cops stepped back as they were so shocked at the sight of a few hundred sikhs bowing like that in the middle of the street. when guru ji went back to the gurdwara sahib the entire sangat followed behind maharajh, the nishaan sahibs were flying and the nagara was beating. singhs had tears of love in their eyes. even the police were amazed at the love the singhs showed for guru ji and they expressed that they never saw anything like this before. NOBODY stayed around ek niwas after maharajh went. people were there for love of guru ji not because of hatred of anyone or ek niwas. once maharajh was out, the singhs left the place to carry on with whatever they wanted.

as i said its a movement of love for our guru, and your right we have to put our all in our guru. so just like in the past when gurmukhs have taken out their own eyes in exchange for fire to warm up the bath of their guru, we should also be ready to do whatever it takes to do seva of our master.

Stop living off one day of glory. We have to look forward and do something productive so the Sikh Panth has a lifetime of glory.

If protests are an effective tool then you might aswell book every weekend for the next 4 years to protest outside all 300 Gurdwaras in UK. All these Gurdwaras are doing beadbi one way or another. This protest tool will become stale soon. We are talking about making people understand that the cannot do beadbi because SGGS is god, not that they cannot do beadbi because a group of Hooligans will chase them! These people doing beadbi dont see Guru Gobind SIngh's khalsa fauj coming to stop them. They see a group of lads, end of story. Everyone should stand up against people who have come to intimidate them!!

The protesting is selective based on what will bring in the biggest acclaims. Look beyond YOUR day of glory. Your post is so defensive about the actions on one day!!! What about every other day?? What are we going to do??

Things are not as clear cut as stopping a saroop from going in here or taking a saroop from there. If you can see that then you will be protesting for the next fews years acheiving nothing.

[akaash]

I wasnt talking about Ek Nivas, i was saying in general. I have been to a few protests myself and i learnt nothing but intimidation against your own sangat.

As you are talking about Ek Nivas, well...I have seen the images to the Ek Nivas protest and i understand that this has been going on for years and i understand why the protest was happening, i understand how long the sangat sat outside to wait for Guru Ji to come out but where were Guru Ji's vastars? Where was Guru Ji's blanket to keep them warm from the cold? Where was the umbrella over Guru Ji as it was raining that day? Im sorry if ive missed these images but i didnt see them. Where was that pyare for Guru Ji?

Ive also seen the video clip to Baba Vadbhag in Greenford protest. What was that whole speech about in the Gurdwara?? "Cut off there tongue if someone says something against sikhi" etc.... what that taught me was hatered against other religions. I didnt learn anything positive from that speech but hatered again. So is that what Mahann Sikhs do? Is that what our Guru Ji's did? Is this what needs to be taught to the new generation? I personally dont think so.

Penji - looks like the elder who brought the saroop out from EknIwas has done beadbi himself.

Is The beadbi clear cut in these pictures? There is no proper covering of the saroop. The Elder has no rumalla or towel covering his head.

[rupinder singh]

oh beadbi, beadbi, beadbi! so many newly discovered experts out there.

all i c is superiority complexes out there on the battlefield. get ready for the battle of the centuary........the battle of the egos!!

and AK 47, if u want ur postings to look responsible the drop the AK 47 username. u jus sound like some nutter preacher who wants 2 blow the world up. do u think u can use a AK 47 in a protest?. lol

[AK-47]

akash do you have a problem with your reading skills?!

Singhs are already and have been working on preparing literature, videos, workshops, presentations, parcharaks with kirtani jatha's, a whole 'road show' if you like that will go around the country and with guru ji's kirpa re-educate the sangat about the importance of guru granth sahib ji. this will both in english and punjabi to hit all generations.

what do you think this means.... it means singhs are being productive and preparing things!! preparing for the future!! did you forget to read that bit?!

and who is living on what day of glory!? it was one day, whoppee doo, some of the singhs involved are now involved in doing seva of around 3 or 4 camps taking place over christmas. sorry to burst your bubble, but people have more things to do then sit on their backsides after one day! read my prev post about what it means to do seva. again and again singhs are doing benti for everyone to work together and do seva, but all you do is moan!!! you offer no solutions, no ideas, no encouragement, nothing! all you do is complain!

again its either your reading or something else...

The freedom to protest is a pillar stone of democracy and the civilised world praises itself on the fact that its citizens can protest without fear of prosecution (however the police seem to be able to bend rules to suit themselves - however another topic another time!). How can we say protests achieve nothing? A single protest will not solve a problem, just like a single A4 piece of literature will not solve the issue. protests form part of the solution, talks, literature are all part of the solution. A protest is an extremely powerful expression of opinion. It shows that people are passionate and care enough to actually physically stand,sit, run jump etc whatever it is for the cause of their choice. Protest can swing opinions and protests can bring political change. I dont want to start a political essay on the benefits of the show of punlic support via protest, but it is obvious that protests are useful and can add benefit to the cause that they support.

try READING for once!

i dont get it honestly, what is it that your expecting? you think overnight 750,000 articles are going to be printed and delivered to every sikh across teh country?! people are working on things, and have been working on things for a while. will you offer your help?! will you offer to write an article, help distribute it? produce a film? fund it? etc etc, or will you just sit there and moan! so far youve not once made even a slight suggestion of helping but your pulling the rug under the feet of those that do!

this is not mine of anyone else day of glory!! if it was a fathe then the fathe belongs to vaheguru, not to any individual .. you may have heard of this before .. .vaheguru ji ka khalsa vaheguru ji ki fateh .. ring any bells?

seriously mate you have issues, again and again i repeat more sevadars are needed to get involved, again and again people remind you to contact the R4G guys to offer your help and sort out what were going to do in the future! but you DONT listen! you seem to think with one click of the fingers that things will be sorted!! check out your history, any kind of lehar in history was never done overnight! the singh sabha movement whether you agree with everything they did or not was not an overnight blitz! there were days of actions, and months of preperation and parchar. so yes this will take time, the more people get involved the easier it will be. and its not just a beadbi issue, its sikhi parchar in general. the more sevards get involved the more parchar we can do.

with regards to the blankets etc, yes the singhs accept that galti and im sure have done ardas to maharajh asking for forgiveness, a couple of guys were sent running to the gurdwara sahib to fetch the items but maharajh started towards the gurdwara before they got back. the woman at ik niwas didnt let the singhs use anythin of hers, no towels etc not even water to wash hands, so singhs ran to shops to buy water etc etc.

that speech is by one individual. you disagree take it up with him. and its not hatred against other religions, he was speaking against people who talk bad agaisnt sikhi and guru ji. some will say he was too agressive, others wont, depends on your point of view.

sorry but im really shocked at some attitudes on display here. this is your guru we are on about here. gursikhs have stood for hours chest deep in water in a well holding up wood above their heads, but didnt let the wood get wet as it was for the guru's langar, even when he was saved from the well, he sent the wood up first. he put his guru above everything else. people today would call him a nutcase and a weirdo, a fanatic even. yet he was a guru ka pyara. Until we see the beauty of our guru things like this just wont make sense to us.

i cannot and will not speak of the avguns of other singhs, but i can speak of my own and i can say that there are many many mistakes that i make on a daily, hourly basis! all i can do is ask for forgiveness from guru sahib and the sangat. if guru sahib wishes he will rid me of my vikaars and make my maan shudh. where we have shortcomings the sangat will help us improve and improve our sikhi. but know this, seva will continue no matter what the difficulties. this is not for our benefit, but for the panth. you can only live for the panth once you have died for yourself, this is the challenge we face, and its not easy beating the mind and killing the lust, anger, attachment ego and greed. but if we want to be even the dirt on the shoes of gursikhs who we aspire to, then this is what we must do.

I apologise for posting again, i will try not to post again on this topic as it is going nowhere. basic question raised is, 'are there other things happening to teach the sangat the importance of guru ji so that incidents like this dont happen again'? the answer is 'yes there are, please get involved and help, as there is a lot to be done'.

end of conversation

[DeepiKaur]

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh!!

AK-47 many of us have helped toward the same seva, whether it be cost, or parchar, so you can not questions us on that one. At the end of the day, Guru Ji knows whats right and whats wrong, who has done the Seva with pyare or without pyare. Guru Ji knows it all. Im not saying this to have any digs at anyone but what i have said or what others have said, it has been from experience im sure.

Any protest i have been to has been a lads thing and at the end of it some singh has come up to me and asked me "So benjhi, who did you punch" i dont like comments like these cause the protests are not held for these reasons! If protests are to be held then it should be a sangats desicion as to what to do and what not to do, not just a few lads desicion on what to do. There should be resposibility aswell, being resposible for the effect on the town after the protest and before which is something that is never done. People do the protest then leave everything on someone elses shoulders. I have seen this many times now.

Protests should be held as a sangat mix of old, young, men and women, should be done with pyare, simran, with Guru Ji in our minds.

[singh_1983]

phenji ur right - protests should be done with pyare, simran, and with Guru Ji on our minds - but when the pushing and shoving etc takes place - please dont think that those involved dont have Guru Ji on thier minds, from what iv seen in recent protests this only takes place as a last resort!