Different Beliefs

[20legend]

taking religions from their origin, every religion is pure (in my opinion)

however, as we all know religion can be so easily corrupted but its easy for most people to tell the difference between reality and b*llsh*t!

ive studied sikhism for relatively my whole life and in some ways have been indoctrinated by it all.

i took amrit at age 8 and straight away found it difficult to cope with and ended up breaking my amrit, which i know of course is not good.

however, the more i educated myself about the religion the more i semed to find out along the way, but now have put it aside for a moment to see the various views i can gather from other religions.

in one sense i have no religion, i believe in god but it stops at that, there is no sub-sector, no religion at this moment in time, alhough i do kirtan sohila paath every night before i go to sleep!

what im getting at is basically, how can you see right from wrong when there are so many different views in the world! everything ranging from whether or not to keep or cut hair or even how to pray, it all differs from religion to religion!

my whole family being amritsharee in one sense can only give me one view, which of course is going to be biased towards sikhism, but who states which religion is better than the next?!

i think its unfair and clearly cannot be justified whether one religion can offer something more to an individual than another religion can - my question being where does sikhi stand on this?! ive heard some people say it is the only way to get to heaven whereas when i ask other people with different beliefs they say that all ways are correct!

judging on the latter of those statements would it be fair to say you can reach god through other channels of belief other than sikhi although the views and practise of religion is totally different i.e. christians drink wine in church etc, buddhists shave all body hair etc!

[Guest Guest]

taking religions from their origin, every religion is pure (in my opinion)

however, as we all know religion can be so easily corrupted but its easy for most people to tell the difference between reality and b*llsh*t!

ive studied sikhism for relatively my whole life and in some ways have been indoctrinated by it all.

i took amrit at age 8 and straight away found it difficult to cope with and ended up breaking my amrit, which i know of course is not good.

however, the more i educated myself about the religion the more i semed to find out along the way, but now have put it aside for a moment to see the various views i can gather from other religions.

in one sense i have no religion, i believe in god but it stops at that, there is no sub-sector, no religion at this moment in time, alhough i do kirtan sohila paath every night before i go to sleep!

what im getting at is basically, how can you see right from wrong when there are so many different views in the world! everything ranging from whether or not to keep or cut hair or even how to pray, it all differs from religion to religion!

my whole family being amritsharee in one sense can only give me one view, which of course is going to be biased towards sikhism, but who states which religion is better than the next?!

i think its unfair and clearly cannot be justified whether one religion can offer something more to an individual than another religion can - my question being where does sikhi stand on this?! ive heard some people say it is the only way to get to heaven whereas when i ask other people with different beliefs they say that all ways are correct!

judging on the latter of those statements would it be fair to say you can reach god through other channels of belief other than sikhi although the views and practise of religion is totally different i.e. christians drink wine in church etc, buddhists shave all body hair etc!

religions can be corrupted yes, but the truth cannot. Guru granth sahib ji contans the one truth. Studied sikhism? you mean studied the different sects, the oppositions, the debates? or actually studied gurugranthsahib ji? Guru nanak dev ji had no religion, neither did any o fthe other guru's. Guruji came into the era of kaljug to break through the rituals, superstition...etc. that bound religion and stated that the highest religion of all is NAAM. that doesnt mean JUST doing vaheguru vaheguru with the mouth, naam meaning, following the guru's shabad to the max an dmaking it the basis of your life, the code by which you live and make decisions.

"what im getting at is basically, how can you see right from wrong when there are so many different views in the world! everything ranging from whether or not to keep or cut hair or even how to pray, it all differs from religion to religion!"

things like cutting hair, how to pray aren't the fundamentals of gurmat, as such, of course without rehat you cannot be called a sikh, but rehat also internal rehat- compassion, seeing God in al.

if you delve into guru granthsahib ji, which hardly any of us are actually wiling to spend time doing, you would see that all guruji talks to us about is becoming a sort of humanitarian. i mean, instilling qualities that generally a good person has.

Its not that one has to believe that sikhi is better than any other religion, Sikhi doesnt even fall into the category of relgions. its a total way of life, not something you do every morning every afternoon for a couple of hours. Mahraj says if you are going to be a muslim, be a true muslim, a true hindu? be a ture hindu

musalamaan kehaavan musakal jaa hoe thaa musalamaan kehaavai ||

It is difficult to be called a Muslim; if one is truly a Muslim, then he may be called one.

aval aoul dheen kar mit(h)aa masakal maanaa maal musaavai ||

First, let him savor the religion of the Prophet as sweet; then, let his pride of his possessions be scraped away.

hoe musalim dheen muhaanai maran jeevan kaa bharam chukaavai ||

Becoming a true Muslim, a disciple of the faith of Mohammed, let him put aside the delusion of death and life.

rab kee rajaae ma(n)nae sir oupar karathaa ma(n)nae aap gavaavai ||

As he submits to God's Will, and surrenders to the Creator, he is rid of selfishness and conceit.

tho naanak sarab jeeaa mihara(n)math hoe th musalamaan kehaavai ||1||

And when, O Nanak, he is merciful to all beings, only then shall he be called a Muslim. ||1||

See, rather than looking at the rituals that bind religions...mahraj says, a true muslim is one who scrapes away his pride of posessions, one who puts aside the delusion of death, submits himself to God and is MERCIFUL TO ALL BEINGS...

these are no different from how a tur sikh.

Mahraj doesnt distinguish.Mahraj only says that if you are to be a muslim/hindu/sikh, be a true one, and above mahraj tells us how.

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE dont take my word for it. Guru granth sahib ji is truly a treasure chest. no one realises this, including me.Even many british scholars have been totally astounded at the treasures that gurugrathsahibji contains. I will give examples if need be.

Sorry for the long essay lol!

I hope this helped, i feel that i was in your situation not so long ago

vaheguroo ji ka khalsa vaheguru ji ki fateh.

[KKV]

Gurufateh!

i like to see it as EVERY human and EVERY1 Religion is ONE anyway - we as humankind label it as seperate Religions. I KNOW that beliefs are different and everything but MOST Religions believe in God dont they? I dont think ANYONE should compare Religions to eachother becuase every Religion is right in their OWN way. We dont have any right saying which Religion is wrong or right - there is no right or wrong - just Religions and beliefs!

I hope i helped in what your saying - if i aint sorry!!! :TH:

Gurufateh!

[singh_comradz]

My pennies worth.

Guru Nanaks mission wasn't to create another wordly religion. They spread the gospel of truth (naam) which was above the doctrine of any wordly religion.

Maharaj (Guru Granth Sahib Ji) emphasises that without naam one cannot cleanse the mind and cannot reach Vaheguru but is stuck in the cycle of reincarnation.

Maharaj also revealed the hyprocracy of people following wordly religions, rituals etc

but also identifies the qualities of a true religious person.

सो पंडितु जो मनु परबोधै ॥

so pandit jo man parboDhai.

He is a true Pandit, a religious scholar, who instructs his own mind.

ਰਾਮ ਨਾਮੁ ਆਤਮ ਮਹਿ ਸੋਧੈ ॥

राम नामु आतम महि सोधै ॥

raam naam aatam meh soDhai.

He searches for the Lord's Name within his own soul.

ਰਾਮ ਨਾਮ ਸਾਰੁ ਰਸੁ ਪੀਵੈ ॥

राम नाम सारु रसु पीवै ॥

raam naam saar ras peevai.

He drinks in the Exquisite Nectar of the Lord's Name.

As for Sikhi, really its a discipleship of the True Guru but people over time have thought of it as just another religion (age old human habit of labelling). I guess if we put the udham in, then alot more can be obtained from this path which cannot be found anywhere else.

सूही महला १ घरु २

soohee mehlaa 1 ghar 2

Soohee, First Mehl, Second House:

ੴ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ॥

ੴ सतिगुर प्रसादि ॥

ik-oNkaar satgur parsaad.

One Universal Creator God. By The Grace Of The True Guru:

ਅੰਤਰਿ ਵਸੈ ਨ ਬਾਹਰਿ ਜਾਇ ॥

अंतरि वसै न बाहरि जाइ ॥

antar vasai na baahar jaa-ay.

Deep within the self, the Lord abides; do not go outside looking for Him.

ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤੁ ਛੋਡਿ ਕਾਹੇ ਬਿਖੁ ਖਾਇ ॥੧॥

अम्रितु छोडि काहे बिखु खाइ ॥१॥

amrit chhod kaahay bikh khaa-ay. ||1||

You have renounced the Ambrosial Nectar - why are you eating poison? ||1||

ਐਸਾ ਗਿਆਨੁ ਜਪਹੁ ਮਨ ਮੇਰੇ ॥

ऐसा गिआनु जपहु मन मेरे ॥

aisaa gi-aan japahu man mayray.

Meditate on such spiritual wisdom, O my mind,

ਹੋਵਹੁ ਚਾਕਰ ਸਾਚੇ ਕੇਰੇ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥

होवहु चाकर साचे केरे ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥

hovhu chaakar saachay kayray. ||1|| rahaa-o.

and become the slave of the True Lord. ||1||Pause||

ਗਿਆਨੁ ਧਿਆਨੁ ਸਭੁ ਕੋਈ ਰਵੈ ॥

गिआनु धिआनु सभु कोई रवै ॥

gi-aan Dhi-aan sabh ko-ee ravai.

Everyone speaks of wisdom and meditation;

ਬਾਂਧਨਿ ਬਾਂਧਿਆ ਸਭੁ ਜਗੁ ਭਵੈ ॥੨॥

बांधनि बांधिआ सभु जगु भवै ॥२॥

baaNDhan baaNDhi-aa sabh jag bhavai. ||2||

but bound in bondage, the whole world is wandering around in confusion. ||2||

ਸੇਵਾ ਕਰੇ ਸੁ ਚਾਕਰੁ ਹੋਇ ॥

सेवा करे सु चाकरु होइ ॥

sayvaa karay so chaakar ho-ay.

One who serves the Lord is His servant.

ਜਲਿ ਥਲਿ ਮਹੀਅਲਿ ਰਵਿ ਰਹਿਆ ਸੋਇ ॥੩॥

जलि थलि महीअलि रवि रहिआ सोइ ॥३॥

jal thal mahee-al rav rahi-aa so-ay. ||3||

The Lord is pervading and permeating the water, the land, and the sky. ||3||

ਹਮ ਨਹੀ ਚੰਗੇ ਬੁਰਾ ਨਹੀ ਕੋਇ ॥

हम नही चंगे बुरा नही कोइ ॥

ham nahee changay buraa nahee ko-ay.

I am not good; no one is bad.

ਪ੍ਰਣਵਤਿ ਨਾਨਕੁ ਤਾਰੇ ਸੋਇ ॥੪॥੧॥੨॥

प्रणवति नानकु तारे सोइ ॥४॥१॥२॥

paranvat naanak taaray so-ay. ||4||1||2||

Prays Nanak, He alone saves us! ||4||1||2||

bhul chuk maaf

[20legend]

yes i see where your all coming from in a sense!

what happens to all the people who lead good lives, give to charity etc, do little wrong throughout there lives, but choose not to believe in god? do they go through all the lifetimes again as a result of this?

i find it hard to come to terms with the fact that some people read paath everyday of their lives but some people say it will have little effect been as they still go out to the pub maybe to socialise with friends or have their hair cut etc?! to what extent do you agree with that point?! i can see it in one way that the person reading the gurbani is contradicting themselves as i do not think the gurbani agrees with them doing such things?! but then does that not make reading it pointless, unless you are a true follower e.g. amirt shakiya?!

the one end goal is god and going to heaven and being one with god, but where religions differ in practise, seems to be the most confusing part - mainly because if one religion has no rules against e.g. drinking etc but one religion has 'rules' (i use the term loosely) against such things, arent the 2 in direct opposition to one another - from a neutral perspective, which do ytou choose?

[Guest Guest]

i

yes i see where your all coming from in a sense!

what happens to all the people who lead good lives, give to charity etc, do little wrong throughout there lives, but choose not to believe in god? do they go through all the lifetimes again as a result of this?

i find it hard to come to terms with the fact that some people read paath everyday of their lives but some people say it will have little effect been as they still go out to the pub maybe to socialise with friends or have their hair cut etc?! to what extent do you agree with that point?! i can see it in one way that the person reading the gurbani is contradicting themselves as i do not think the gurbani agrees with them doing such things?! but then does that not make reading it pointless, unless you are a true follower e.g. amirt shakiya?!

the one end goal is god and going to heaven and being one with god, but where religions differ in practise, seems to be the most confusing part - mainly because if one religion has no rules against e.g. drinking etc but one religion has 'rules' (i use the term loosely) against such things, arent the 2 in direct opposition to one another - from a neutral perspective, which do ytou choose?

i jus wrote arele long post but something hapeend and it all got deleted.

Reading paath and living paath are two different things.

reading paath is obviosuly better than reading rubbish, but just the reading alone wil have no effect. it is a positive step as it may help you remember the bani etc, but mahraj says many can chant har ahr with th emouth, but very few are ones who can enshrine it in their hearts. most of us feel we are not able to follow gurusahibs hukams to the max (even many amrithdaris dont, i say this as one myself). the best we can do is try to understand what guruji is saying, by learning gurmukhi or to start off with reading translations, and try to implement it into ones life. this applies to anyone, regardless of whether one is amritdhari or not.

Sikhs do not believe in heaven and hell. Yes beign one with god, i understand what you mean sorry to nit pick.

To be honest, rules are made by people.

Gurugranthshaibji is the ultimate truth- sometimes rules are necessary in the begining when we are unable to understand what guruji is saying to us. if we drink for insatnce, we are harming ourselves, we lose control of our minds and disrupt neural sysetms in the brain and synapses, resulting in us being worse off. This has been made into a "rule" because many people may not get that drinking is bad for us...anywaays i hope you get what i mean.froma mneutral perspective, it should be obvious which to choose-to drink/not? hmm... basically if you wan tot damage tyour body then go ahead drink.

Vaheguroo

[Jathedar]

Religion abides in every soul, it is the innermost nature of everything that exists. it is the yearning of man to be perfect. Even without knowing it, we are all moving towards that perfection.

Religion is to realize that we are nothing but His naam, to realize that we are nothing but HE.

But to most of us religions has become a more of a social symbol, an egotistical issue, where with we have a name to indentify ourshelves.

Is it right to hang a picture on the wall, call it our religion and leave it at that??

Religion is with us always within and without. to identify it and realzie it is our duty.

[singh_comradz]

yes i see where your all coming from in a sense!

what happens to all the people who lead good lives, give to charity etc, do little wrong throughout there lives, but choose not to believe in god? do they go through all the lifetimes again as a result of this?

i find it hard to come to terms with the fact that some people read paath everyday of their lives but some people say it will have little effect been as they still go out to the pub maybe to socialise with friends or have their hair cut etc?! to what extent do you agree with that point?! i can see it in one way that the person reading the gurbani is contradicting themselves as i do not think the gurbani agrees with them doing such things?! but then does that not make reading it pointless, unless you are a true follower e.g. amirt shakiya?!

the one end goal is god and going to heaven and being one with god, but where religions differ in practise, seems to be the most confusing part - mainly because if one religion has no rules against e.g. drinking etc but one religion has 'rules' (i use the term loosely) against such things, arent the 2 in direct opposition to one another - from a neutral perspective, which do ytou choose?

They come back in reincarnation in a janam and with karam dependant on their past actions.

मुंधे गुण दासी सुखु होइ ॥

munDhay gun daasee sukh ho-ay.

O young bride, be a slave to virtue, and you shall find peace.

ਅਵਗਣ ਤਿਆਗਿ ਸਮਾਈਐ ਗੁਰਮਤਿ ਪੂਰਾ ਸੋਇ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥

अवगण तिआगि समाईऐ गुरमति पूरा सोइ ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥

avgan ti-aag samaa-ee-ai gurmat pooraa so-ay. ||1|| rahaa-o.

Renouncing wrongful actions, following the Guru's Teachings, you shall be absorbed into the Perfect One. ||1||Pause||

ਵਿਣੁ ਰਾਸੀ ਵਾਪਾਰੀਆ ਤਕੇ ਕੁੰਡਾ ਚਾਰਿ ॥

विणु रासी वापारीआ तके कुंडा चारि ॥

vin raasee vapaaree-aa takay kundaa chaar.

Without capital, the trader looks around in all four directions.

ਮੂਲੁ ਨ ਬੁਝੈ ਆਪਣਾ ਵਸਤੁ ਰਹੀ ਘਰ ਬਾਰਿ ॥

मूलु न बुझै आपणा वसतु रही घर बारि ॥

mool na bujhai aapnaa vasat rahee ghar baar.

He does not understand his own origins; the merchandise remains within the door of his own house.

ਵਿਣੁ ਵਖਰ ਦੁਖੁ ਅਗਲਾ ਕੂੜਿ ਮੁਠੀ ਕੂੜਿਆਰਿ ॥੨॥

विणु वखर दुखु अगला कूड़ि मुठी कूड़िआरि ॥२॥

vin vakhar dukh aglaa koorh muthee koorhi-aar. ||2||

Without this commodity, there is great pain. The false are ruined by falsehood. ||2||

As for the duality factor ie. gurmat and manmat.

Sant Gyani Maskeen Singh Ji once said in katha that a person who does their paath and seva but at the same time listens to filthy songs, does manmat stuff and basically doesn't live life truthfully is a sadharan manmukh who will come back again and again.

सिरीरागु महला ३ ॥

sireeraag mehlaa 3.

Siree Raag, Third Mehl:

ਜਾ ਪਿਰੁ ਜਾਣੈ ਆਪਣਾ ਤਨੁ ਮਨੁ ਅਗੈ ਧਰੇਇ ॥

जा पिरु जाणै आपणा तनु मनु अगै धरेइ ॥

jaa pir jaanai aapnaa tan man agai Dharay-ay.

If you know that He is your Husband Lord, offer your body and mind to Him.

ਸੋਹਾਗਣੀ ਕਰਮ ਕਮਾਵਦੀਆ ਸੇਈ ਕਰਮ ਕਰੇਇ ॥

सोहागणी करम कमावदीआ सेई करम करेइ ॥

sohaaganee karam kamaavdee-aa say-ee karam karay-i.

Behave like the happy and pure soul-bride.

ਸਹਜੇ ਸਾਚਿ ਮਿਲਾਵੜਾ ਸਾਚੁ ਵਡਾਈ ਦੇਇ ॥੧॥

सहजे साचि मिलावड़ा साचु वडाई देइ ॥१॥

sehjay saach milaavrhaa saach vadaa-ee day-ay. ||1||

With intuitive ease, you shall merge with the True Lord, and He shall bless you with true greatness. ||1||

ਭਾਈ ਰੇ ਗੁਰ ਬਿਨੁ ਭਗਤਿ ਨ ਹੋਇ ॥

भाई रे गुर बिनु भगति न होइ ॥

bhaa-ee ray gur bin bhagat na ho-ay.

O Siblings of Destiny, without the Guru, there is no devotional worship.

ਬਿਨੁ ਗੁਰ ਭਗਤਿ ਨ ਪਾਈਐ ਜੇ ਲੋਚੈ ਸਭੁ ਕੋਇ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥

बिनु गुर भगति न पाईऐ जे लोचै सभु कोइ ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥

bin gur bhagat na paa-ee-ai jay lochai sabh ko-ay. ||1|| rahaa-o.

Without the Guru, devotion is not obtained, even though everyone may long for it. ||1||Pause||

ਲਖ ਚਉਰਾਸੀਹ ਫੇਰੁ ਪਇਆ ਕਾਮਣਿ ਦੂਜੈ ਭਾਇ ॥

लख चउरासीह फेरु पइआ कामणि दूजै भाइ ॥

lakh cha-oraaseeh fayr pa-i-aa kaaman doojai bhaa-ay.

The soul-bride in love with duality goes around the wheel of reincarnation, through 8.4 million incarnations.

ਬਿਨੁ ਗੁਰ ਨੀਦ ਨ ਆਵਈ ਦੁਖੀ ਰੈਣਿ ਵਿਹਾਇ ॥

बिनु गुर नीद न आवई दुखी रैणि विहाइ ॥

bin gur need na aavee dukhee rain vihaa-ay.

Without the Guru, she finds no sleep, and she passes her life-night in pain.

ਬਿਨੁ ਸਬਦੈ ਪਿਰੁ ਨ ਪਾਈਐ ਬਿਰਥਾ ਜਨਮੁ ਗਵਾਇ ॥੨॥

बिनु सबदै पिरु न पाईऐ बिरथा जनमु गवाइ ॥२॥

bin sabdai pir na paa-ee-ai birthaa janam gavaa-ay. ||2||

Without the Shabad, she does not find her Husband Lord, and her life wastes away in vain. ||2||

About the different religions/one God, you've gone back to the same point again when replies by people have been posted to help answer your question.

At the end of the day people like me (who use sikhitothemax search facility lol) can help answer your questions only so much.

All the answers you want are in Guru Granth Sahib Ji. Answers from a forum only go so far.

But what Maharaj says is 101% true, but because of the influence of Maya we doubt and don't truly contemplate it.

For understanding on bani, speaking to a Gursikh with gurmat gyan or listen to katha.

bhul chuk maaf

[Sarbloh]

aap aapni budhi hai jaiti barnt bhinun bhinun taiti tumra lkha na jaeh psara keh bidhi prthm sunsara. (17)

Every one according to their understanding, describes You differently. The limits of Your creation cannot be known, nor how in the beginning You wrought the Universes. (17)

(Patshai Dasvi Kabio Vach Bainti Chaupai)

Maharaj tells us that each person’s budhi (understanding) is different, therefore each persons understanding is different. If Jesus, Budha and Mohammed etc only had the vision up Gian Khand then that’s because of the budhi they were give by Sri Akal Purakh as Sri Akal Purakh did not show them Sach Khand. We, as followers of Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji Maharaj have been given the method of realising sach khand but that doesn’t mean we need to sit there and scrutinise those that do not yet have the same budhi.

[20legend]

yes, some very good responses which are much appreciated!

i get a very extreme viewpoint when i ask such things from the people i ask around my area, but you lot seem to give a more sound understanding of the whole thing and i am very grateful for this.

thanks :WW: