Murti Pujja And Sikhs

[jassa]

i dont know where this thread will end .... but ....

i have seen many people on this very site saying bad things about other religions communities .... there way of practice and bhakti ....

what in real is murti pujja .... and what was the reason guru ji dont wanted sikhs not to practice it .....

the difference is hindus have made murti of soil and water ..... we have made murti of guru granth sahib ..... hindu youth go and bow behind the murti of bhagwan shri ram or krishna or shiva .... they dont know who are they what was jeevan what they teach .... a sikh youth go and bow before shri adi guru granth sahib ..... but he dont know nor he cared to know whats inside .... what guru granth sahib says how many gurus bani is in there ....

what is the difference ????

maffi

[Bijla Singh]

Posted by Singh132

There's a fine line between idol worship and respect of Sri Guru Granth Sahib.

The first thing we have to understand is that Guru Granth Sahib is not a "book" and has never been treated as such by Guru Sahib in human form or any Sikhs. The biggest proof of this is the existence of Kotha Sahib in the original Sri Akal Takhat Sahib where Guru Granth Sahib has always been brought to rest and continues to this day to be brought there for sukh asan. This room wasn't created for any other reason and it is in the original structure of Sri Akal Takhat Sahib.

But at the same time we have to understand that Guru Granth Sahib is not in human form and doesn't have those needs that a human body has. For example Guru Granth Sahib doesn't need to eat or exercise or feel cold or be taken for walks. Guru Sahib doesn't need to be bathed. If we try to do these things for Guru Sahib's saroop it is idol worship.

At the same time, there is nothing more precious than Guru Granth Sahib. If there is something that precious, you don't treat it casually. That's why Guru Granth Sahib is brought in with ceremony at amrit vela and sukh asan is done at night. If you look at the Jews and how they treat the Torah, they too see it as something very precious (to this day the Torah is ONLY hand written and ONLY in the scroll format, never in a book). To get a Torah, Jews wait a long time and pay a lot of money. It is treated with utmost respect.

So at night, when there is really no one to attend to Guru Sahib's saroop and no one who can do seva or read the saroop, sukh asan is done. Guru Sahib is then taken from the Darbar to a more secure room where the saroop is left overnight. Usually Guru Sahib's saroop rests on a bed but if you look at older Gurdwara Sahibs for example Gurdwara Patti Sahib in Nankana Sahib and others as well (in Pinds), sometimes there was a compartment made in the wall, almost like a cave, that was maybe 1.5 ft tall, about the same wide and about 2 ft deep where Guru Sahib's saroop was kept. So a bed isn't absolutely mandatory, but there is nothing wrong about it either.

Guru Sahib's saroop shouldn't be treated casually because it has the jot of Satguru Nanak resting within it. Gursikhs recognise this fact and any respect they give to the saroop is not enough. So the finest resting area is created with the highest quality things.

There is an atheist/a-shardak wave going through our community these days. We have to be careful not to fall into ritualism and idol worship but at the same time we shouldn't go to the other extreme as well in which we abandon all our old traditions and beliefs. If you value something, you will treat it specially. This is the word of God and the jot of Guru Nanak, would you stomach it being placed on a shelf with other books or being carried around in someone's backpack to be opened at any place and any time?

[Nihung Vikramdeep Singh]

ok so your saying that maharaj is a living being (which i totally agree with) and if maharaj is a living being then maharaj i smade of 5 tath, because thats what lving beings are made of. therefore whats the difference between a murti and maharaj, because to hindus a murti is an imbodiment of which ever of their gods its reverred for and maharaj is the embodiment of our 10 guru sahibs. see the connections?

[Mehtab Singh]

Sahib-E-Kamaal Dasmesh Pita Sahib Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji Maharaj Himself said that Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji will embody the jot of all the Gurus. None of the Hindu deities (as far as I know) made this claim about any of their idols.

Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is the Word of God that we bow to. Hindu idols are representations of their deities.

Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is our everlasting Guru, but idols have a limited lifespan.

Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is our everlasting Guru, but even deities have a limited lifespan.

[ms514]

WAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA, WAHEGURU JI KI FATEH

Jassa Sahib is making a point that is true. For a lot of people, Guru Granth Sahib is an idol. They go, bow and never explore the message. To some, this is just the entrance procedure for the all you can eat buffet (what they see Langar as). Guru Sahib affirmed that "Bani Guru, Guru Hai Bani". It is not the physical granth that is bowed to...it is paper and ink...just as the body is dirt and water. True, we treat the Guru Granth Sahib with the utmost respect, but that is because of the MESSAGE contained within. Hence why the 10 human Gurus were respected. It is that very message that is embodied and vested in the Guru Granth Sahib, that goes far beyond the physical parameters of its embodiment. Therefore, that is the difference. Many Hindus actually bow to the moortis/statues because they believe them to be the physical representation of their dieties that will grant them things. Rare are those who actually contemplate the message of the Bhagavad Gita or the Ramayana...most just think "Ok, so if I bathe Krishna moorti in milk, he'll give me a BMW."

[Rani1]

There is a big different..hindus believe that the last kalpa will be the end of the universe and the Devtas en Devis. The

Satyug----1728,000years

Threta----1296,000years

Dawapar----864,000years

Kalyug-----432,000years

Total-----4320,000years

4320,000 multiplied with 1000 is equal to one day of Brahma and is know as one "Kalpa"

Brahma's age is 100 Kalpa.

Knowledge cannot be destroyed..so the Guru Granth Sahib will live forever.

[Guest Papi]

the first difference is,

there is no knowledge in a murti, guru granth sahib gives us bhram gyan

[jassa]

the first difference is,

there is no knowledge in a murti, guru granth sahib gives us bhram gyan

thats what i was saying .... a 60 yrs old sikh ... who dont even know how to take a hukamnama .... who every time need a punjabi translation of hukam .... who dont know who complied guru sahib when they got gugaddi and all other info ... what different he has done in just bowing before guru sahib then bowing in front of murti .... isnt for him guru granth sahib ji is a murti ????

ask a 8 years old nirankari or 8 year old naam dhari .... he can tell u full essay on his present guru all info .... ask a 20 years old sikh youth ... most of them dont even know how many anks are there in guru granth sahib .....

are not we doing murti pujja of guru granth sahib now ?????? :lol:

[chatanga]

Fateh

what jassa is saying is correct. but his point is about knowledge or lack of it when it comes to Sikhi. lets say you have a 20 yera old who bows to Guru Jee, but understands nothing about Guru Ji. Then you give him the knowledgde and he understand about Guru Ji, so now the worship is on a higher level. He understands the Word. He douznt treat Guru Ji like a idol no more. Now take a 20 yera old hindu who worships murti, he dont know why he worship it, then if you tell him that this is what idol worship is about, do you think he will stop it? Unlikely. he will just carry on. Thats is the difference Jaasa.

chatanga

[Akaal Faujdaar]

ok so your saying that maharaj is a living being (which i totally agree with) and if maharaj is a living being then maharaj i smade of 5 tath, because thats what lving beings are made of. therefore whats the difference between a murti and maharaj, because to hindus a murti is an imbodiment of which ever of their gods its reverred for and maharaj is the embodiment of our 10 guru sahibs. see the connections?

i agree with what your saying to some extent but maharaj isnt made of 5 thatwa, but still a valid argument