Importance Of Raag

[0909]

Don't concentrate too much on the logistics, it doesn't mean if you learn to do keertan in raag you will have a better understanding of gurbani.

The main point is to understand gurbani and guru sahib jee daa parmaan drirh karnaa. This life is VERY short, so understand the message of guru sahib, its always good to learn to do keertan in raag, as it is suppose to bring out the true essence of the shabad in that tone/specific raag, because thats how it was written, but if one is too concentrated on singing and the instruments they play they overshoot the message.

Bhul chuk muaf.

Its a facet in Indian classical Music that ragas have certain time that they should be played.

But in Sikhi terms, because you're dealing with spirituality, you cant limit emotion to timing.

I ask you this: Do you have a certain time of the day when youre sad? A certain time when youre happy?

No. Because what you feel cannot be tied down to a certain hour.

Clear example within Guru Granth Sahib:

According to Indian Classical Music and present day granthis (Im not dissing them, they teach what theyve learned), Asa Raag should be sung in the morning. Hence Asa Ki // is sung only during Amrit Vela.

If that is the case, and were supposed to follow timings, then why does Asa appear in Rehras Sahib (an evening bani) ? Why does it appear in Kirtan Sohila (a night bani) ?

What you feel is what you feel. Timing is not important; feeling is.

Raag is not just about 'timing'. Different Raags bring our different feelings and emotions and these are lets say 'heightened' at certain times of the day. The tune and the way in which Bani is sung in the Raag prescribed to it enhances the whole experience, its not ALL about timing, in fact when a Shabad is sung in the correct Raag at the time prescribed to it, the 'feeling' you will get from it will be amazing; and I speak from experience.

On a side note, you mention that there is the Raag Asa is Rehiras Sahib and Kirtan Sohila, do you snig these Bani's in the Raags prescribed to them? If so I'm sure you'll feel mega bliss no matter what the hour - if not then you're comment ('If that is the case, and were supposed to follow timings, then why does Asa appear in Rehras Sahib (an evening bani) ? Why does it appear in Kirtan Sohila (a night bani) ?') doesn't really stand.

May Maharaaj bless us all.

[Tanu Kaur]

Don't concentrate too much on the logistics, it doesn't mean if you learn to do keertan in raag you will have a better understanding of gurbani.

The main point is to understand gurbani and guru sahib jee daa parmaan drirh karnaa. This life is VERY short, so understand the message of guru sahib, its always good to learn to do keertan in raag, as it is suppose to bring out the true essence of the shabad in that tone/specific raag, because thats how it was written, but if one is too concentrated on singing and the instruments they play they overshoot the message.

Bhul chuk muaf.

Its a facet in Indian classical Music that ragas have certain time that they should be played.

But in Sikhi terms, because you're dealing with spirituality, you cant limit emotion to timing.

I ask you this: Do you have a certain time of the day when youre sad? A certain time when youre happy?

No. Because what you feel cannot be tied down to a certain hour.

Clear example within Guru Granth Sahib:

According to Indian Classical Music and present day granthis (Im not dissing them, they teach what theyve learned), Asa Raag should be sung in the morning. Hence Asa Ki // is sung only during Amrit Vela.

If that is the case, and were supposed to follow timings, then why does Asa appear in Rehras Sahib (an evening bani) ? Why does it appear in Kirtan Sohila (a night bani) ?

What you feel is what you feel. Timing is not important; feeling is.

Raag is not just about 'timing'. Different Raags bring our different feelings and emotions and these are lets say 'heightened' at certain times of the day. The tune and the way in which Bani is sung in the Raag prescribed to it enhances the whole experience, its not ALL about timing, in fact when a Shabad is sung in the correct Raag at the time prescribed to it, the 'feeling' you will get from it will be amazing; and I speak from experience.

On a side note, you mention that there is the Raag Asa is Rehiras Sahib and Kirtan Sohila, do you snig these Bani's in the Raags prescribed to them? If so I'm sure you'll feel mega bliss no matter what the hour - if not then you're comment ('If that is the case, and were supposed to follow timings, then why does Asa appear in Rehras Sahib (an evening bani) ? Why does it appear in Kirtan Sohila (a night bani) ?') doesn't really stand.

May Maharaaj bless us all.

Yeah, I do actually. That was my point actually, that you can't limit raag to timing. Emotion has not time boundary, so why should musical emotion?

GurFateh

[Mahakaal Singh]

just like akj's feel that if you dont do saahs girhaas your not doing waheguru jaap properly (like ye right) guru maharaj is saying that if bani in KIRTAN isnt read to the correct raag then your not doing bani properly, its like singing a shabad about the happiness of life at a funeral! bani in kirtan without it in raag isnt appropriate

[gurmukh_singh]

just like akj's feel that if you dont do saahs girhaas your not doing waheguru jaap properly (like ye right) guru maharaj is saying that if bani in KIRTAN isnt read to the correct raag then your not doing bani properly, its like singing a shabad about the happiness of life at a funeral! bani in kirtan without it in raag isnt appropriate

i think this is the most pointless comment i've read on this thread. Everyone else has kept the thread moving along nicely not trying to make it controversial by including jathebandis. Since when have akj said that saas giraas is the only way to do simran, don't akj's do "normal" simran when they do kirtan? and where does maharaaj say kirtan not done in raag means its's being sung wrong? get some proof or else keep your stupid comments to yourself

[0909]

Don't concentrate too much on the logistics, it doesn't mean if you learn to do keertan in raag you will have a better understanding of gurbani.

The main point is to understand gurbani and guru sahib jee daa parmaan drirh karnaa. This life is VERY short, so understand the message of guru sahib, its always good to learn to do keertan in raag, as it is suppose to bring out the true essence of the shabad in that tone/specific raag, because thats how it was written, but if one is too concentrated on singing and the instruments they play they overshoot the message.

Bhul chuk muaf.

Its a facet in Indian classical Music that ragas have certain time that they should be played.

But in Sikhi terms, because you're dealing with spirituality, you cant limit emotion to timing.

I ask you this: Do you have a certain time of the day when youre sad? A certain time when youre happy?

No. Because what you feel cannot be tied down to a certain hour.

Clear example within Guru Granth Sahib:

According to Indian Classical Music and present day granthis (Im not dissing them, they teach what theyve learned), Asa Raag should be sung in the morning. Hence Asa Ki // is sung only during Amrit Vela.

If that is the case, and were supposed to follow timings, then why does Asa appear in Rehras Sahib (an evening bani) ? Why does it appear in Kirtan Sohila (a night bani) ?

What you feel is what you feel. Timing is not important; feeling is.

Raag is not just about 'timing'. Different Raags bring our different feelings and emotions and these are lets say 'heightened' at certain times of the day. The tune and the way in which Bani is sung in the Raag prescribed to it enhances the whole experience, its not ALL about timing, in fact when a Shabad is sung in the correct Raag at the time prescribed to it, the 'feeling' you will get from it will be amazing; and I speak from experience.

On a side note, you mention that there is the Raag Asa is Rehiras Sahib and Kirtan Sohila, do you snig these Bani's in the Raags prescribed to them? If so I'm sure you'll feel mega bliss no matter what the hour - if not then you're comment ('If that is the case, and were supposed to follow timings, then why does Asa appear in Rehras Sahib (an evening bani) ? Why does it appear in Kirtan Sohila (a night bani) ?') doesn't really stand.

May Maharaaj bless us all.

Yeah, I do actually. That was my point actually, that you can't limit raag to timing. Emotion has not time boundary, so why should musical emotion?

GurFateh

Reread what I have said and you’ll see that what I’m saying is the same as you’re comments, except that I have also stated that when a specific Raag is sung at the time attributed to it enhances the experience i.e. adds to the whole ‘feeling’ you are getting.

Raag adds a lot in terms of emotions when Gurbani is sung in the Raag attributed to it. You keep saying its all about the feeling and not the time - singng Bani in the Raag Maharaaj has written it in is an amazing experience.

How long does it take you to sing Rehiras Sahib in Raag?

[rsingh]

Funny how a raag discussion always becomes one of Akhand Keertan vs everyone else. It is inresting when people talk about Jathas when there has not been any jatha or taksals in India which have preserved the tradition of taanti saajh Raag Keertan. Over the past few years I think we have seen a sudden surge in the western hemeshphire this was particularly led by raag kertanis and academy in UK and in east by the traditional Raagis once again coming to the forefront. Gursikhs such as late Bhai Avtaar Singh, Bhai Balbir Singh etc have done much for preserving taanti sahj rehit. With regards to Akhaand Keertani Jatha I think jathaa has done much but yes I would agree that they haven’t done much with regards to taati raag keertan but its not like Raag keertan is banned. Over the past couple of years raag keertani have attended riansbais and done keertan at time purely with string instruments. There are keertani such as Bhai Apaardeeep Singh Ji ho I belive do play raag keertan so how can you really bash akj? Has there been anyother taksals in India which have been teaching raag keertan?

[sunny_love_kirtan]

yea thats wrong that peopel saying akj is against doing kirtan in raags.

in manchester akj samagam BIBI ASHUPREET KAUR did kirtan in very classical style.

and in jatha no bibi is allowed to do kirtan without keski but still there they allowed BIBI ASHUPREET KAUR to do kirtan , all its coz he have great knowledge of raags and its AKJ who let her do kirtan in samagam withut caring abt the keski matter.

so dnt people like topic starter say that AKJ is not doing raags or what ever...

look at their jeevans and look at the jeevans of greedy raagis who take alots of money for doing kirtan in raags and AKJ NEVER take money for doing kirtan.

again raags are not bad and are not boycott or banned in akj.

but if we people starts saying its mandatory then there will be very less people to do kirtan and we cant listen to kirtan that often.

and abt the compleate anand of gurbani is only in raags ....

BABA NAND SINGH JI

BHAI RANDHEER SINGH JI

BAHI RAMA SINGH JI

all above mahapurashs have PARTAKH DARSHAN of GURU SAHIBS, and they were not doing kirtan in raags.

so u people think they never enjoyed the compleate rass of kirtan?

raags should be mandatory at places like SRI DARBAR SAHIB AND OTHER HISTORICAL GURDWARA SAHIBS and ALL TAKHATS.

because there the raagis are doing jobs and they shud be professinal and expert in raags and only qualified raagis shud be given jobs.

these days its became a tread to play dilruba with raagi who is doing kirtan with harmonium and which is not a bit classical. then it looks dumb playing dilruba with these raagis.

dilruba shud not be removed but the raagis from darbar sahib who dnt do classical kirtan shud be removed.

its also ok to recite first shabad in pure raag and rest in semi classical style.

but we dnt apply this rule oon whole kirtaniees in the world, unless people who dnt like raags or cant understand baani in raags will stop listening kirtan.

in some simple tunes the baani is better understood and got in to the minds of ordinary people.

akj has its own different style of kirtan. it can be in raags and also be in simple tunes.

there is no such maryada to do kirtan in raags only.