Baba Jagjit Singh, Harkowal Wale

[Guest Guest]

Baba Nand Singh Ji Nanaksar Wakey used to say the true Sants make you bow only infront Guru Granth Sahib Ji the Guru of the Gurus.

That the true Sant only joins you with Guru Granth Sahib Ji and not himself.

In some Deras Matha Teking is allowed but not all. But when it comes to Sikh Sants they never tell you to Matha Tek them.

But if the Sangat really has alot of respect what can they do then?

We do Namaskar to our elders and parents as well.

[Guest Guest]

WJKK WJKF,

just a couple of things to point out about baba ji.

When he does katha now, (this was not the case in the past) but he will do katha in baba ji's tabiyea. I.e. sitting behind Guru Granth Sahib. I havn't seen many that do this.

Another, is that once he has finished doing seva of katha, baba ji will get up, take a bill from the money that has accumulated on stage and give it to the next jatha doing kirtan or katha. The rest is put in guru ji's golak.

Also, I have been in the presence of baba ji many times and have myself witnessed him getting mad at people for touching his feet. Don't judge him by people who insist on doing that even though he has stopped them.

Hearing things from someone is one thing, I would really recommend again that if you get a chance, try to do some sangat of baba ji, you will understand yourself what kind of person he is.

WJKK WJKF

[Guest satti]

As sukhmani sahib states, "BRAHM GIANI AAP PARMESHAR" so why not matha tek......its all about pyaar. If guru Nanak Dev ji can matha tek to a raja who was really sick and came to him for darshan then why cant we as regular human beings bow to a mahapurush?

Its all about kirpa as Guru Nanak Dev ji said to the raja. its upto the guru in what ever way he wants to do kirpa.

hope this helps.

[Guest Sevasimransacrifice]

The problem about putting up such a post, is that it some way,we are creating a chance to do nindiya of mahapurkhs...

Needless to say, I have met Baba Ji on numerous occassions and he has many times said not to matha tek to him or touch his feet. Alot of sangat from all over come and see him, how many times can one say it?!

It some ways its good this was posted in order for it to clarified and stop any nindiya from occurring.

[VanHelsingh 1,984]

Generally (and not referring to any present Sants in particular), I think some elements of the sangat elevate even a worthy Sant / Mahapursh to lofty levels - even if the Sant / Mahapursh has told them clearly to stop doing such things. People seem to think the Sant is being falsely modest even though he categorically has stated not to bow to him, etc. People just need to calm themselves and always keep in mind that Guru Granth Sahib Ji is the number 1.

[dalsingh101 412]

I heard some of this Sants vibes in an audio, it was quality stuff. Down to earth, open and accessible as is needed in these times to reach the youth.

[Guest Amarjeet.]

The saint has the world at his feet, they bow to him without his wish. I personally had a chance to meet with Sant Baba Jagjeet Singh Ji Harkhowal Wale when he came to New Zealand this year. People bowed to him without his consent and he stopped them. When he was going the entire sangat bowed to him at the airport and he kept on walking backwards to not let them touch his feet. Although I cannot remember now I am sure he told us to not bow to anyone but Guru Granth Sahib Jee. People say Sikhs are declining but with Saints like Baba Ji that is proving to be a lie. I will also like to tell u that Baba Ji's katha attracted the sangat and they made an offering of 10,000 dollars to him which he refused. That my friends is a true saint. We should not argue about him but listen to him. Gur fateh Ji.

[Guest RK]

I would bow to sant baba jagjit singh a million times, not them as a person but the bhandaar of knowledge that they are and they always tell me off saying "why do you touch my feet etc"... but I will do it time and time again, not because I think they are my Guroo, or the level of my Guroo, but because ultimately, inside them all I see is my Guroo.

[singhdalbir 84]

I guess bowing is ones own sharda. but what is for sure that you should not bow to any sant while they are in the presence of SGGS.

its been a long time since i meet him. i didnt know that Baba Jagjit singh ji was alive when Sant baba Jawala singh ji was alive?

[sunny_love_kirtan 192]

to whom who r saying that we should not bow to sants

In gurbani it is mentioned and ordered numerous of times to bow to the feet of God's humble servent, God's conscious ( Bhrahamgyani), gurmukhs, sants, saadh jans.

ਜਿਨਿ ਜਨਿ ਅਪਨਾ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਪਛਾਤਾ ॥

Jin Jan Apanaa Prabhoo Pashhaathaa ||

Those humble beings who recognizes God

ਸੋ ਜਨੁ ਸਰਬ ਥੋਕ ਕਾ ਦਾਤਾ ॥

So Jan Sarab Thhok Kaa Dhaathaa ||

Are the givers of all things.

ਤਿਸ ਕੀ ਸਰਨਿ ਸਰਬ ਸੁਖ ਪਾਵਹਿ ॥

This Kee Saran Sarab Sukh Paavehi ||

In His Sanctuary, all comforts are obtained.

ਤਿਸ ਕੈ ਦਰਸਿ ਸਭ ਪਾਪ ਮਿਟਾਵਹਿ ॥

This Kai Dharas Sabh Paap Mittaavehi ||

By the Blessing of His Darshan, all sins are erased.

ਅਵਰ ਸਿਆਨਪ ਸਗਲੀ ਛਾਡੁ ॥

Avar Siaanap Sagalee Shhaadd ||

So renounce all other clever devices,

ਤਿਸੁ ਜਨ ਕੀ ਤੂ ਸੇਵਾ ਲਾਗੁ ॥

This Jan Kee Thoo Saevaa Laag ||

And enjoin yourself to the service of those servants.

ਆਵਨੁ ਜਾਨੁ ਨ ਹੋਵੀ ਤੇਰਾ ॥

Aavan Jaan N Hovee Thaeraa ||

Your comings and goings shall be ended.

ਨਾਨਕ ਤਿਸੁ ਜਨ ਕੇ ਪੂਜਹੁ ਸਦ ਪੈਰਾ ॥੮॥੧੭॥

Naanak This Jan Kae Poojahu Sadh Pairaa ||8||17||

O Nanak, worship the feet of God's humble servants forever. ||8||17||

Raag Gauri Sukhmanee Guru Arjan Dev

Pretty Clear in the above ashtpadi from Sri Sukhmani Sahib that Guru Arhun Dev Sahib ji Maharaj ji ordering to serve the feet of servants of Waheguru.

There is another interesting pankti from a Shabad I also do kirtan of which is

ਸੋ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਜਪਿਆ ਵਡਭਾਗੀ ਤਿਨ ਨਿੰਦਕ ਦੁਸਟ ਸਭਿ ਪੈਰੀ ਪਾਏ ॥

So Guramukh Naam Japiaa Vaddabhaagee Thin Nindhak Dhusatt Sabh Pairee Paaeae ||

Very fortunate and blessed is that Gurmukh who chants the Naam; it shall bring all slanderers and wicked enemies to fall at his feet.

ਨਾਨਕ ਨਾਮੁ ਅਰਾਧਿ ਸਭਨਾ ਤੇ ਵਡਾ ਸਭਿ ਨਾਵੈ ਅਗੈ ਆਣਿ ਨਿਵਾਏ ॥੧੫॥

Naanak Naam Araadhh Sabhanaa Thae Vaddaa Sabh Naavai Agai Aan Nivaaeae ||15||

O Nanak, worship and adore the Naam, the Greatest Name of all, before which all come and bow. ||15||

ਸਿਰੀਰਾਗੁ ਕੀ ਵਾਰ: (ਮ: ੪) ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੮੯ ਪੰ. ੭

Pretty clear that Gurmukhs who chant NAME, even their slanders and enimies come and fall at their feet. So it is not a surprise that an ordinary person who has faith in gurbani will bow to sant/saadh jans/ gurmukhs and brahamgyanies.

This is the name which makes everyone bow to the feet of the one who chant name.

Reposting the pangti from the first ashpadi from sukhmani shaib

ਅਵਰ ਸਿਆਨਪ ਸਗਲੀ ਛਾਡੁ ॥

Avar Siaanap Sagalee Shhaadd ||

So renounce all other clever devices,

ਤਿਸੁ ਜਨ ਕੀ ਤੂ ਸੇਵਾ ਲਾਗੁ ॥

This Jan Kee Thoo Saevaa Laag ||

And enjoin yourself to the service of those servants.

we really need to give up the cleverness and smartness as guru sahib suggesting in the same context. Because Guru Sahib knew that there will be people like you who will act smart and try to say something what you are saying therefore Guru Sahib wrote it very clearly that just give up those smartnesses and serve the Lord's lovers.

I know your point is "do not bow anyone except Guru Grant Sahib Ji" which is true but it does not litrelly mean anyone. It means do not bow anyone like you bow to GURU SAHIB. We usually give respect to our elders by touching their feet in our tradition which is also called pairreen hath lana. This is not same as bowing to Guru Sahib.

Bowing to sant jans is what Gurubani orders so do not try slandering these mahapurashs because you will end up falling at their feet.

[sunny_love_kirtan 192]

ਸਲੋਕ ਮਃ ੪ ॥

Salok Ma 4 ||

ਅੰਤਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਗੁਰੂ ਧਿਆਇਦਾ ਵਡੀ ਵਡਿਆਈ ॥

Great is the greatness of the Guru, who meditates on the Lord within.

ਤੁਸਿ ਦਿਤੀ ਪੂਰੈ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੂ ਘਟੈ ਨਾਹੀ ਇਕੁ ਤਿਲੁ ਕਿਸੈ ਦੀ ਘਟਾਈ ॥

By His Pleasure, the Lord has bestowed this upon the Perfect True Guru; it is not diminished one bit by anyone's efforts.

ਸਚੁ ਸਾਹਿਬੁ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੂ ਕੈ ਵਲਿ ਹੈ ਤਾਂ ਝਖਿ ਝਖਿ ਮਰੈ ਸਭ ਲਕਾਈ ॥

The True Lord and Master is on the side of the True Guru; and so, all those who oppose Him waste away to death in anger, envy and conflict.

ਨਿੰਦਕਾ ਕੇ ਮੁਹ ਕਾਲੇ ਕਰੇ ਹਰਿ ਕਰਤੈ ਆਪਿ ਵਧਾਈ ॥

The Lord, the Creator, blackens the faces of the slanderers, and increases the glory of the Guru.

ਜਿਉ ਜਿਉ ਨਿੰਦਕ ਨਿੰਦ ਕਰਹਿ ਤਿਉ ਤਿਉ ਨਿਤ ਨਿਤ ਚੜੈ ਸਵਾਈ ॥

As the slanderers spread their slander, so does the Guru's glory increase day by day.

ਜਨ ਨਾਨਕ ਹਰਿ ਆਰਾਧਿਆ ਤਿਨਿ ਪੈਰੀ ਆਣਿ ਸਭ ਪਾਈ ॥੧॥

Servant Nanak worships the Lord, who makes everyone fall at His Feet. ||1||

ਜਿਨਾ ਪਛਾਤਾ ਸਚੁ ਚੁੰਮਾ ਪੈਰ ਮੂੰ ॥੩॥

Jinaa Pashhaathaa Sach Chunmaa Pair Moon ||3||

Those who recognize the True Lord - I kiss their feet. ||3||

ਆਪੇ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਮੇਲਿ ਸੁਖੁ ਦੇਵੈ ਆਪਣਾਂ ਸੇਵਕੁ ਆਪਿ ਹਰਿ ਭਾਵੈ ॥

Aapae Sathigur Mael Sukh Dhaevai Aapanaan Saevak Aap Har Bhaavai ||

He Himself causes us to meet the True Guru, and blesses us with peace. His servant is pleasing to the Lord.

ਆਪਣਿਆ ਸੇਵਕਾ ਕੀ ਆਪਿ ਪੈਜ ਰਖੈ ਆਪਣਿਆ ਭਗਤਾ ਕੀ ਪੈਰੀ ਪਾਵੈ ॥

He Himself preserves the honor of His servants; He causes others to fall at the feet of His devotees.

8 ਬਿਹਾਗੜੇ ਕੀ ਵਾਰ: (ਮ: ੪) ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੫੫੫ ਪੰ. ੮

Raag Bihaagrhaa Guru Amar Das

ਹਰਿ ਕੀ ਵਡਿਆਈ ਦੇਖਹੁ ਸੰਤਹੁ ਹਰਿ ਨਿਮਾਣਿਆ ਮਾਣੁ ਦੇਵਾਏ ॥

So behold the glorious greatness of the Lord, O Saints; the Lord blesses the dishonored with honor.

ਜਿਉ ਧਰਤੀ ਚਰਣ ਤਲੇ ਤੇ ਊਪਰਿ ਆਵੈ ਤਿਉ ਨਾਨਕ ਸਾਧ ਜਨਾ ਜਗਤੁ ਆਣਿ ਸਭੁ ਪੈਰੀ ਪਾਏ ॥੪॥੧॥੧੨॥

As dust rises from underfoot, O Nanak, so does the Lord make all people fall at the feet of the Holy. ||4||1||12||

12 ਸੂਹੀ (ਮ: ੪) ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੭੩੫ ਪੰ. ੭

Raag Suhi Guru Ram Das Ang:735 Line: 7

Hope everything is clear with Guru's Mat.

[VanHelsingh 1,984]

Yes, Baba Ji is utter quality.

[AKSANTALI 40]

It's amazIng that when people actually start to read rather than follow like sheep, they realise what mahraaj is saying for themselves instead of following jathebandia rules and regulations.

Well done sunny I dont expect much debate now that people have read what mahraaj has said.

[sikhthetruth 3]

how many times does it say in bani...we should bow to those true humble saints....we've been here countless times in the past on sikhsangat.....when bani quotes get thrown in the faces of those that think different...they just seem to ignore it and think they are still right.....i can see that about to happen here

im sorry to say this......but those that think you shudn't bow to sants......either dont read bani or if they do they dont understand it

bhul chuk maaf

[Only five 1,124]

The problem with Sikhs is that they bow down to the wrong people. A politician, science prof, philosphy prof, etc is who they bow down too. The science prof. says something and the Sikh is on the move to fullfill his duty. Then these Sikh parents have not taught any better to their kids.

If Sikhs would learn to bow down with their minds to Satguru, then Sikhs would learn bowing to Satguru's Saints is not wrong. Every Sikh says they got Sikhi down right. No one wants to listen to the Satguru's Saints these days. If you ask these 50 year old Sikhs how much their Sikh parents and grandparents used to listen to Saints, then the problem would be solved. When a dog doesn't know where it's home is, then it barks in every direction to chase after the 5 vices.