NO POINT TO THE KIRPAN...

[chamkila]

i dont agree with the point thats been made about the fact that the beholder should just be able to use the kirpan minimally and that it wud be enough.

in my opinion, everyone who takes Amrit should be told to train how tp use the kirpan PROPERLY - i mean imagine this yeh, someone on the street is getting raped or sumthing and this person screams to you to help them and to defend them but u turn round to them and say "sorry... i dont know how to use my kirpan properly..."

And there are a LOT of shasters out there everyone should have knowledge of. How many people in this cybersangat can say that they would be able to fight in real bloody battles??

I think minimal knowledge of how to use a Kirpan is DEFINITELY not enough...

I agree with you, but the main thing is to have hope in WaheGuru.

They is a story from Guru Gobind Singh Ji time, The Udasi were Created by Baba Sri Chanda and the Udasi use to come to the Gurdwara and just pray and never fight or learn how to fight. One day Guru Ji when to War and this Udasi Sant when with Guru ji (Sorry Forgot hes name) every one started to laungh and say what will this fat Sant do againist the hill rajas this Udias sant never when to war before or sat on a horse or held a kirpan before. They when to the location of the War and the Udias Sant sat on the horse and had no kirpan just a wooden club, and

all the hill Rajas were laungh at him. This Udias Sant was going after one of the main guys and that guy was laungthing and riding away from him because did not want to fight some one with a wooden club. The Udias Sant did not stop he kept on following this guy and at the end hill Raja tried to kill this udias Sant with his Sword but the Sword broke and the Udias Sant hit him once with the wooden club and the hill raja was killed.

Every one in the near by towns heard this and one guy you was running a shop called Lal Chand also never sat on a horse or held a kirpan or any weapon before, when running to the battle location and when to Guru Ji and said I want to join the war and help you but I don't know how to sit on a horse use a weapon. Guru Ji gave him a horse Lal Chand sat on this horse with out any problems, Guru Ji gave him a Kirpan and Sheid Lal chand said how will I use these weapon Guru JI said hold one in one hand and the other in the other hand. Lal Chand when to the battle field and was fight like a great Sikh Soldier.

So the Main thing is to have hope in WaheGuru.

[Nama Singh]

ya true but wot if all these gatka classes or shaster vidhiya classes that go on nowadays almost everywhere where theres a lot of sangat, is like a calling?

Its like this joke i once heard... theres this massive flood in a city and everyones drowning. A rescue helicopter tries to help this one man who is drowning fast but he doesnt want the help. He believes so strongly in Maharaj he shouts out "I dont need saving! GOD WILL SAVE ME!"........................ .................. but he drowns and dies anyway. He gets to God on the other side and he asks Him "Why didnt you rescue me and save me when i was drowning? Ive always been a man of God?" And God simply replies "U <banned word filter activated>! Who do u think sent the helicopter?!"

U see sumtimes we get a calling from Maharaj but we try to look beyond Him.

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

[serenity]

It sounds like you are talking of Mahant Kirpal Das Ji an Udasi whose followers deserted Guru Ji at the time of battle but who remained steadfast by the Guru's side. He, with a salotar only (stick/club) burst open the head of the enemy/hill raja like a watermelon.

Guru Jee praises Mahant Kirpal Das.

It is wrong to assume Udasi's never learnt how to fight, alot of them did. And still do. They are just gupt about it, don't make a song and dance about knowing things.

Nice point Chamkila. Nowadays, how many Sikhs see their Guru as hazar Nazur and knower of all? If they did, wouldnt they be training and doing exercise? Meditating and contemplating bani? Seva and getting knowledge? Most of all, not judging, being humble and contemplating naam, the life source of any Gursikh.

[serenity]

Aman, it is good to get vidiya of self defence, but we must also not blindly follow, our path is our own. It is good to be objective. I can see what you mean, but always tread with caution where people are telling you things. Learn and research. Thats the best advice.

[chamkila]

It sounds like you are talking of Mahant Kirpal Das Ji an Udasi whose followers deserted Guru Ji at the time of battle but who remained steadfast by the Guru's side. He, with a salotar only (stick/club) burst open the head of the enemy/hill raja like a watermelon.

Guru Jee praises Mahant Kirpal Das.

It is wrong to assume Udasi's never learnt how to fight, alot of them did. And still do. They are just gupt about it, don't make a song and dance about knowing things.

Nice point Chamkila. Nowadays, how many Sikhs see their Guru as hazar Nazur and knower of all? If they did, wouldnt they be training and doing exercise? Meditating and contemplating bani? Seva and getting knowledge? Most of all, not judging, being humble and contemplating naam, the life source of any Gursikh.

serenity thats him Mahant Kirpal Das Ji, Sorry If I made Udasi sound like weak people that was my mistake, Udasi are great people as well and have done lots for Sikhi.

[Akaali]

Its like this joke i once heard... theres this massive flood in a city and everyones drowning. A rescue helicopter tries to help this one man who is drowning fast but he doesnt want the help. He believes so strongly in Maharaj he shouts out "I dont need saving! GOD WILL SAVE ME!"........................ .................. but he drowns and dies anyway. He gets to God on the other side and he asks Him "Why didnt you rescue me and save me when i was drowning? Ive always been a man of God?" And God simply replies "U <banned word filter activated>! Who do u think sent the helicopter?!"

hahahha, nice joke!

The kirpan is not just a symbol just like our kakaars, they serve a purpose on the human body. As per using the kirpan, if we don't know how to use our kakaars, then they serve no purpose on your body. Just like a kangha, if you don't know how to comb your hair with it, its pretty much useless.

These days, even a small-time crook knows how to use a blade. What disappoints me is that you see bibian and some old singhs wear these small ishnani kirpana, and think they can defend themselves with it. Taking amrit for them has become more of a tradition, rather than a way of life, or religion. They see it like, if they take amrit, they're spared, or they reach heaven, LOL.

Man, Guru sahib gave us a Sri Sahib, but with laws, and during british rule, it was reduced to a smaller kirpan, but the Khalsa was suppose to wear a 'Sri Sahib' with him at all times, during Sikh Raaj, they were the police, just like in the movie "THE LAST SAMURAI" and gained the respect of their people.

But really, size doesn't matter, you can do as much damage with a smaller kirpan, than with a Sri Sahib, if you know how to use it..

[Singhstah]

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

What's so hard about using a kirpan properley. Take out the kirpan and use it you don't needd to be a gatka expert. :nihungsmile:

[Gurvinder.Singh]

aman, the best way to use a kirpan is logicly if ya know what i mean, it like any martial arts, judo for example, it using logic to take to oppoenent, there weight and force against them (used to do judo :e: ), if it comes down to having to use a kirpan (hope it dont) then belive in yourself

[Gupt_Singh]

u dont need to be a niddar singh to learn how to use a kirpan......ive never had formal training from a "kirpan teacher" and ive worked out how to use it.......ive also taught myself nunchuks (with a lil help 2 begin with) and im pretty funky with those

a bigger problem then how to use a kirpan is the state its in - some titchy lil thing with a blunt edge, and the wood inside is really stiff so its hard to take out, now that is alot more useless. a sharp kirpan u can whip out quickly is wat u need.......

[smartsingh24]

The kirpan is symbolic, and really isn't supposed to be used frequently, because the basic moral that it stands for, is justice.