Wheelchairs In Temples

[Prem]

This is just an example of how backwards, out of touch, and arrogant some commitees are.

Not only have they slapped a Sikh in the face by denying them acces to their Guru, they have also insulted Guruji by denying his child access to his bliss and meditation.

And over and above all this --- they are breaking the law and could find themselves open to investigation.

Under anti-discrimination law all buildings have to provide access to disabled people including providing entrances and ramps for wheelchairs. I think some commitee members will be liable for prosecution for this. They should be informed of their obligations and if they don't do anything about it, Sikhs should undertake to inform the nessecary official bodies to institute orders under the anti disability discrimination Act to force the Gurdwara to allow access.

Guru Fateh

[gurmeetjodhey]

What about someone who cannot crawl?

What if they are quadraplegic?

What about someone who cannot sit on the floor?

what if one die in the mother's womb !!!

no offence aimed, sorry for gettig this too harsh, peace

[gurmeetjodhey]

i personally feel there must be an easy access for desabled persons in comparison to the fits.

1. shorter distance to walk

2. minimum stairs / no stairs to climb

3. sevadaars / sevadaarnis to do seva, give support to walk or crowl

4. affectionat / sweet / healing words to encourage WILL - not to use wheelchair

5. ARRANGEMENT OF WHEELCHAIR by gurudwara prabandhaks.

the most practical is the last one - EVERYONE will agree.

no offence aimed, peace.

[Guest Papi]

What about someone who cannot crawl?

What if they are quadraplegic?

What about someone who cannot sit on the floor?

what if one die in the mother's womb !!!

no offence aimed, sorry for gettig this too harsh, peace

that was totally uncalled for

[Guest Narinder Singh]

I am no one to say disabled people who need wheelchairs cant have access to the darbar, but it makes me think about what people did three hundred, five hundred years ago.

Sikhs in the western world have spoiled themselves by adopting the idea of "easy access" in every situation (including the gurdwara).

In my opinion, a true gursikh would find a way to have darshan of maharaj than break maryada, the same also applies with chairs for the disabled in the langar halls. I also think that Sikhs today think our Guru is a mere book thats not alive, and who's not aware of whats going on.

Forgive me if ive said anything wrong,

Fateh.

[Prem]

Sikhs in the western world have spoiled themselves by adopting the idea of "easy access" in every situation (including the gurdwara).

So for the sake of a simple thing like installing a ramp at the doorway of a Gurdwara, you think disabled people are being spoiled? As though we are 'making it easy' for them? Maybe we should just put up some barbed wire fences and broken glass around the place for non disabled people too so that we don't make it easy for them to get into Gurdwara either, that'll teach them a lesson!

This is institutional discrimination against disabled Sikhs. But wait. I thought Sikhi believed in equality for all? Maybe not, maybe that was some other religion I heard about.

Guru Fateh

[Guest Narinder Singh]

Sikhs in the western world have spoiled themselves by adopting the idea of "easy access" in every situation (including the gurdwara).

So for the sake of a simple thing like installing a ramp at the doorway of a Gurdwara, you think disabled people are being spoiled? As though we are 'making it easy' for them? Maybe we should just put up some barbed wire fences and broken glass around the place for non disabled people too so that we don't make it easy for them to get into Gurdwara either, that'll teach them a lesson!

This is institutional discrimination against disabled Sikhs. But wait. I thought Sikhi believed in equality for all? Maybe not, maybe that was some other religion I heard about.

Guru Fateh

Did i say installing a ramp is wrong? Hell we have a ramp at our Guru ghar, thats not the issue. The issue is of people sitting on wheelchairs in the darbar, i personally would feel out of place sitting on a chair while everyone else was on the floor.

And youre absolutley right, Sikhi does believe in equality for all, thats why we ALL SIT ON THE FLOOR!

Fateh.

[Guest Papi]

but i see no harm in someone who CAN'T WALK sitting on a wheelchair. if you would feel outta place, then thats just you. if someone who hasn't been given functional legs doesn't want to to crawl into darbar sahib, who are we to force them otherwise.

while we are talking about sitting how about, someone comes in a wheel chair, matha teks, n goes to the back of the darbar and then is helped outta their wheel chair so they can sit on the floor as well :lol: but this does make them dependent on others, and some dont like that.

the point is either way, NO ONE should say no to them.

[All-Info]

Sikhs in the western world have spoiled themselves by adopting the idea of "easy access" in every situation (including the gurdwara).

So for the sake of a simple thing like installing a ramp at the doorway of a Gurdwara, you think disabled people are being spoiled? As though we are 'making it easy' for them? Maybe we should just put up some barbed wire fences and broken glass around the place for non disabled people too so that we don't make it easy for them to get into Gurdwara either, that'll teach them a lesson!

This is institutional discrimination against disabled Sikhs. But wait. I thought Sikhi believed in equality for all? Maybe not, maybe that was some other religion I heard about.

Guru Fateh

I think this poster has very selective points, they are themselves in need of visits to the Gurdwara. Most if not all will have a lift fitted now due to the regulations. and each one i have been to, have a FLAT entry thru the MAIN DOOR. In accordance to the LAW, that is acceptable. In accordance to the LAW, there is NOTHING which states a wheelchair has to have access to ALL floors of a building. IT is a REQUIRMENT, access to the building is provided and that disabled toilet facilities r provided.

So in that perspective, the law which you hold so high, does NOT cover, access to darbar sahib.

Sorry, but i think you should really review Health and Safety Requirments before making accustations to Gurdwaras. the gurdwaray i have been to in my last 3yrs of being into sikhi have a double doorway, which by LAW is acceptable as it OPENS enuf for comfortable access.

The langar hall provides a section with a table for disabled people to eat at, there is no legal requirment for a wheelchair to enter darbar sahib and only rather self centred manmukhs would lobby the govt for such an agenda rather then appeal to the AKAAL TAKHT, the SUPREME Authority of the Sikhs on the matter.

If some people do not wish to crawl, then they do not have enough passion to see Maharaj. Sorry, say im harsh, but its the truth. We take seeing the Guru for granted as really, its a "book" in the eyes of todays sikhs. If we can hold our hand on hearts, and say Guru Granth Sahib is the Eternal Guru, will we appreciate what we have in our lives.

A person who wants to see the Guru, will travel the length of the earth to see them. And do an ardaas daily that maharaj blesses them with the opportunity.

We make maharaj a show piece, hence why schools go to the gurdwara and have no respect, the idiots doing the talks say, this is our holy book.

Treat Guru Ji Like the King of Kings he is, then you will see yourself, ANYONE wishing to get darshan will get Darshan.

Once again, if someone is so desperate, have Panj Singh come to your house, and have maharaj bought to, carried on the Sees of a Khalsa and have darshan. But thats not the point here is it, to get darshan, its about we are better then the thousands of disabled in india who will do nething to get darshan because we are westernised and have money.

Sorry if your offended by the post, but wake up and see the light. Maharaj is everywhere, maharaj is the shabad, close your eyes and listen to paath with an honest heart, you will get darshan, stop making darbar sahib into your personal house.

[Guest Papi]

If some people do not wish to crawl, then they do not have enough passion to see Maharaj. Sorry, say im harsh, but its the truth.

easy for you to say, you have two functional legs

A person who wants to see the Guru, will travel the length of the earth to see them. And do an ardaas daily that maharaj blesses them with the opportunity.

keep in mind that not everyone has the same level of shardha as you do. we all start from some place