Wheelchairs In Temples

[All-Info]

If some people do not wish to crawl, then they do not have enough passion to see Maharaj. Sorry, say im harsh, but its the truth.

easy for you to say, you have two functional legs

A person who wants to see the Guru, will travel the length of the earth to see them. And do an ardaas daily that maharaj blesses them with the opportunity.

keep in mind that not everyone has the same level of shardha as you do. we all start from some place

It doesnt matter if i have 2 functional legs, iv had my hardship when i was growing up, i was unable to walk properly at times as i had serious problems with my knees. Never stoped me.

I was ill a couple of yrs ago, i cudnt stand, i cudnt move, doctor was amrtidhari and told me to listen to simran / sukhmani sahib, i did. I also made effort to go the gurdwara that day, did an ardaas and requested maharaj get me there. He did. Why? coz i asked. I cudnt walk properly but slowly i made it.

Its not about sharda, but dnt u think u shud have sharda and not ego when going to see the guru?

Anyone ever wonderd how a muslim does his / her prayers if they are in a wheel chair? How do they stand, sit, bow??? If they dnt have functional legs? Are they going to hell, or are no such persons followers of islam? Answer that, and you will get the answer to how u get darshan of maharaj.

[Guest Narinder Singh]

Allowing chairs of any sort will open up a can of worms, tables and chairs in our langar hall is proof of this. Now i even see gyanis, raagis and kathavachaks who come to our Guru ghar using the tables and chairs, the intentions of bringing in tables and chairs might have been good, but we didnt look into the results to come.

There has to be a more sensible way to go about helping disabled people, having them sit in a wheel chair in the dabar is not one of them, tomorrow everyone will want to sit on chairs.

I agree with All-Info.

Fateh.

[Balait_da_Sher]

I think you guys are forgetting one important thing, Guru jee doesnt care about whether you sit on the floor, higher than them or equal to them on a wheel chair (which i think you still are lower than them anyways), have your back toward them etc. What guru jee has told us is that when you are in the darbar, try to be listen to the gurus teachings. Remember the sakhi of singhs who went to the mela and those who stayed behind. Those who stayed in the darbar, kept thinking about the mela and the one who went to the mela kept thinking about Guru ji.

So my understanding of this is that, these are trivial matters, Gurdwara commettee's prime job is to encourage people to take interest in sikhi. A single act of compasion can change someone's entire life, it can lift the spirit of a disabled person. Think about if the Gurdwara Giyani singh had not let Bhagat Puran singh jee spend the night in the Gurdwara and had not fed him. Would he have met the Guru and served all the disabled people Pingrawala institution serves?

If you want to be like as sikhs were 300 years ago, then dont use electricity in the darbar, dont have fans hanging off the ceilings in summer, dont have loud speakers, Dont make langar on Gas cookers, Dont eat in steal plates, Dont goto the gurdwara in the car..... I could go on and on.

[Guest Narinder Singh]

I think you guys are forgetting one important thing, Guru jee doesnt care about whether you sit on the floor, higher than them or equal to them on a wheel chair (which i think you still are lower than them anyways), have your back toward them etc. What guru jee has told us is that when you are in the darbar, try to be listen to the gurus teachings. Remember the sakhi of singhs who went to the mela and those who stayed behind. Those who stayed in the darbar, kept thinking about the mela and the one who went to the mela kept thinking about Guru ji.

So my understanding of this is that, these are trivial matters, Gurdwara commettee's prime job is to encourage people to take interest in sikhi. A single act of compasion can change someone's entire life, it can lift the spirit of a disabled person. Think about if the Gurdwara Giyani singh had not let Bhagat Puran singh jee spend the night in the Gurdwara and had not fed him. Would he have met the Guru and served all the disabled people Pingrawala institution serves?

If you want to be like as sikhs were 300 years ago, then dont use electricity in the darbar, dont have fans hanging off the ceilings in summer, dont have loud speakers, Dont make langar on Gas cookers, Dont eat in steal plates, Dont goto the gurdwara in the car..... I could go on and on.

The Panth has decided that electricity and what not is acceptable, there is nothing barring us from using those facilities, so that argument doesnt stand at all. However, the Panth does not allow chairs in the dabar, that is hukam and must be followed (unless its changed).

And if doesnt matter where you sit or how youre conduct is, why care about maryada at all? Why not bring shoes into the darbar and not cover your heads? The Guru Panth says we must sit on the floor, so we have to obey.

Fateh.

[Guest Papi]

well fine, as long as we make other arrangements for those individuals to matha tek, sitting is not an issue as they can sit on the floor. are you willing to goto gurudwara and stay there say 1 hour everyday and help out any wheel chair ridden person matha tek?

[Guest Narinder Singh]

well fine, as long as we make other arrangements for those individuals to matha tek, sitting is not an issue as they can sit on the floor. are you willing to goto gurudwara and stay there say 1 hour everyday and help out any wheel chair ridden person matha tek?

Of course, and i think a lot of other Sikhs would, ney tahn assi sikh kadeh hoy?

Fateh.

[Khalsa4ever]

The Panth has decided that electricity and what not is acceptable, there is nothing barring us from using those facilities, so that argument doesnt stand at all. However, the Panth does not allow chairs in the dabar, that is hukam and must be followed (unless its changed).

And if doesnt matter where you sit or how youre conduct is, why care about maryada at all? Why not bring shoes into the darbar and not cover your heads? The Guru Panth says we must sit on the floor, so we have to obey.

Fateh.

Waheguroo jee ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo jee kee Fateh!

There are ALWAYS exceptions to everything. If you do stuff just because its always been done, you are no better than the hindus whos rituals our Gurus chided.

For our Guru, fundamental access is paramount. That means that if someone is disabled, we should do whatever we can to help them reach their Guru. If that means wheelchairs in the back of the darbaar hall, so be it. To say that you should throw them off the chair and make them crawl while we all walk reinforces how much better we are compared to them, and that is wrong wrong wrong.

We cover our heads because we all have heads to cover. For those without functional legs, its stupid and it shows your heartlessness to expect them to drag their bodies into darbaar hall.

Waheguroo jee ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo jee kee Fateh!

[Balait_da_Sher]

I just dont see why we cant have wheelchairs that are never taken outside the diwan hall. They could be kept at the back of the diwan hall and a sewadar can help a disabled person get in the chair and then taken them to the palki and bring them to the back again and rest their chair against the wall or something.

Even with wheelchair, i dont think a disabled person is going to be at the same height level as guru ji.

If panth has decided that electricity is ok, then i think its time panth should decide that wheelchairs are ok too.

[buddasingh]

We are all of the opinion that people with disabilities and guruji must be respected.

We all agree that all people should have access to guruji. The source of our differences seems at first glance to be what should be permitted. But the source of our differences may be more so what is culturally appropriate in a particular society for a ‘disabled’ person.

In some places to suggest a ‘disabled’ person to get out of a chair and crawl in public is considered humiliating and traumatic.

In other societies the wheelchair is not seen as part of the person and they are accepted for the ability they have. There, crawling is not seen as humiliating and in fact approaching guruji in a wheelchair could be considered humiliating and traumatic.

Perhaps that distinction will assist us in easing up on the harsh judgments.

Guruji would be against anyone feeling humiliated or traumatized in approaching in either circumstance. Guruji can take issue with other faiths, yet show the deepest respect for those who have truth in their heart. I don't know of greater examples of tolerance, and understanding. Surely, if we seek to understand and tolerate in a similar manner, this matter can be discussed in a more productive way.

As an aside so there is no misinterpreting the above.... we have instances of a level of intellect so limited that we introduce tables and chairs into langar halls for the general public. This shows that many are not capable of even respecting oneself, and have a long way to go before being able to touch upon respecting others.

[gurmeetjodhey]

What about someone who cannot crawl?

What if they are quadraplegic?

What about someone who cannot sit on the floor?

what if one die in the mother's womb !!!

no offence aimed, sorry for gettig this too harsh, peace

that was totally uncalled for

papi veer ji " no offence aimed, sorry for gettig this too harsh, peace "