Did The Gurus Have Past Lives?

[tableji]

^^ there is a much deeper meaning to that pauri from japji sahib that you have posted.

i suggest you listen to katha on www.gurmatveechar.com to understand it a bit more.

i still stand by my view

Veer, im not challenging your view, just discussing it.

The point is that do you think Guru Nanak Dev Ji was the first incarnation of that soul? Hukam is referring to vahegurus law.

The law is that if we are broken from Vaheguru - then we will go in these recincarnations until we are finally aware! - We are living proof of this law

The question is, was Guru Nanak Dev Ji bound by the same law talked about in Japjee Sahib?

If not, it is to say that Guru Ji is beyond the reach of Vaheguru?

If a person believes that they are beyond Vaheguru then how can they understand the law?

Guru Nanak Dev Ji clearly says that if you do understand/accept the law, you must be egotistical

Personally I believe that the meaning is quite simple

[OhTwadi]

how can ocean be bounded by an ocean??? the concept doesn't make any sense.

of course the ocean understands what it is, because it is that !!!

once you get to a stage where you are one with waheguru, these rules/laws, dont matter, dont exist.

its kinda hard to explain for me perhaps someone else can explain it better.

i never claimed to understand hukam, i've tried and failed so many times .... that i've stoped trying now

in short, guru sahib can do anything and everything. and if they did, there would be no "consequences" so to speak. but out of their love for waheguru, they find it much more pleasing that they live in will of waheguru.

again, i still stand by my view

going a bit off topic i think, so this is my last post in this matter

PS. you seem to think that japji sahib has meaning that are "quite simple". i highly recommend you listen to some katha @ www.gurmatveechar.com you will be blown away by the depth of this bani bestowed to us by dhan guru nanak sahib jee

[tableji]

how can ocean be bounded by an ocean??? the concept doesn't make any sense.

of course the ocean understands what it is, because it is that !!!

once you get to a stage where you are one with waheguru, these rules/laws, dont matter, dont exist.

its kinda hard to explain for me perhaps someone else can explain it better.

i never claimed to understand hukam, i've tried and failed so many times .... that i've stoped trying now

in short, guru sahib can do anything and everything. and if they did, there would be no "consequences" so to speak. but out of their love for waheguru, they find it much more pleasing that they live in will of waheguru.

again, i still stand by my view

going a bit off topic i think, so this is my last post in this matter

PS. you seem to think that japji sahib has meaning that are "quite simple". i highly recommend you listen to some katha @ www.gurmatveechar.com you will be blown away by the depth of this bani bestowed to us by dhan guru nanak sahib jee

Agreed that you get to a stage where you are one with Vaheguru

sUrj ikrix imly jl kw jlu hUAw rwm

sooraj kiran milae jal kaa jal hooaa raam ||

The rays of light merge with the sun, and water merges with water.

joqI joiq rlI sMpUrnu QIAw rwm ]

jothee joth ralee sa(n)pooran thheeaa raam ||

One's light blends with the Light, and one becomes totally perfect.

bRhmu dIsY bRhmu suxIAY eyku eyku vKwxIAY ]

breham dheesai breham suneeai eaek eaek vakhaaneeai ||

I see God, hear God, and speak of the One and only God.

but what about the stages before that? Is there any limit to those stages? Was Guru Nanak Dev Ji born being one with Vaheguru?

GuruJi goes on and on and on about how Vaheguru has saved him. Saved him from what? In order to be saved you have to be in trouble right?

In regards to JapJi Sahib, i apologise for being so flippant with its meaning. Bani is vast

[OhTwadi]

^ i think the problem is you are thinking of guru sahibaan's as they were ordinary humans at some point. thats not the case, bhai gurdaas ji and bhaat jee's have cleared this up quite nicely

Awip nrwiexu klw Dwir jg mih prvirXau ]

aap naraaein kalaa dhhaar jag mehi paravariyo ||

The Lord Himself wielded His Power and entered the world.

inrMkwir Awkwru joiq jg mMfil kirXau ]

nira(n)kaar aakaar joth jag ma(n)ddal kariyo ||

The Formless Lord took form, and with His Light He illuminated the realms of the world.

jh kh qh BrpUru sbdu dIpik dIpwXau ]

jeh keh theh bharapoor sabadh dheepak dheepaayo ||

He is All-pervading everywhere; the Lamp of the Shabad, the Word, has been lit.

ijh isKh sMgRihE qqu hir crx imlwXau ]

jih sikheh sa(n)grehiou thath har charan milaayo ||

Whoever gathers in the essence of the teachings shall be absorbed in the Feet of the Lord.

nwnk kuil inMmlu Avqir´au AMgd lhxy sMig huA ]

naanak kul ni(n)mal avathariyo a(n)gadh lehanae sa(n)g hua ||

Lehnaa, who became Guru Angad, and Guru Amar Daas, have been reincarnated into the pure house of Guru Nanak.

gur Amrdws qwrx qrx jnm jnm pw srix quA ]2]16]

gur amaradhaas thaaran tharan janam janam paa saran thua ||2||16||

Guru Amar Daas is our Saving Grace, who carries us across; in lifetime after lifetime, I seek the Sanctuary of Your Feet. ||2||16||

EDIT: i just confused myself http://www.sikhsangat.com/index.php?showtopic=31684

[tableji]

^ i think the problem is you are thinking of guru sahibaan's as they were ordinary humans at some point. thats not the case, bhai gurdaas ji and bhaat jee's have cleared this up quite nicely

Awip nrwiexu klw Dwir jg mih prvirXau ]

aap naraaein kalaa dhhaar jag mehi paravariyo ||

The Lord Himself wielded His Power and entered the world.

inrMkwir Awkwru joiq jg mMfil kirXau ]

nira(n)kaar aakaar joth jag ma(n)ddal kariyo ||

The Formless Lord took form, and with His Light He illuminated the realms of the world.

jh kh qh BrpUru sbdu dIpik dIpwXau ]

jeh keh theh bharapoor sabadh dheepak dheepaayo ||

He is All-pervading everywhere; the Lamp of the Shabad, the Word, has been lit.

ijh isKh sMgRihE qqu hir crx imlwXau ]

jih sikheh sa(n)grehiou thath har charan milaayo ||

Whoever gathers in the essence of the teachings shall be absorbed in the Feet of the Lord.

nwnk kuil inMmlu Avqir´au AMgd lhxy sMig huA ]

naanak kul ni(n)mal avathariyo a(n)gadh lehanae sa(n)g hua ||

Lehnaa, who became Guru Angad, and Guru Amar Daas, have been reincarnated into the pure house of Guru Nanak.

gur Amrdws qwrx qrx jnm jnm pw srix quA ]2]16]

gur amaradhaas thaaran tharan janam janam paa saran thua ||2||16||

Guru Amar Daas is our Saving Grace, who carries us across; in lifetime after lifetime, I seek the Sanctuary of Your Feet. ||2||16||

EDIT: i just confused myself http://www.sikhsangat.com/index.php?showtopic=31684

Bhai Gurdas Ji is talking about the lives of the Gurus. What about the bodies of that soul before they were Gurus?

Are we not capable of the same things that the Gurus were? Do we not contain that exact same essence? Do we not all have that same potential?