Bahadur Singh Reverts To Shi'a Islam, My Reasons

[THE WARRIOR]

Mehtab Singh, if you know Bahadur, please invite him to contribute to this discussion.

Sikhi, not being a prosletysing religion, has one big fault --- it does not know how to accept or deal with and welcome those who choose to come into the faith in a spiritual quest of their own. In that respect it's like Judaism, another faith that does not seek to convert. Someone born outside the religion who enters into it, will often feel neglected, because Sikhs don't have the tools to welcome them in the way that Christianity or Islam, two evangelical religions do.

But this is also a strength of Sikhi --- it genuinely does consider and embody the belief that there are many rivers leading to one ocean. We don't have nutcases and maniacs, like the Muslims on Bahadur's thead, obsessed with converting others to their religion, a religion that quite incredibly, seeks to convert the entire world to their faith, but announces that anyone who leaves their religion should be put to death. Despite all the faults with Sikhi, the sectarianism, the narrow mindedness, the in-fighting, we do not in any way resemble this twisted form of dogma, and that is a thing of rare beauty, especially in the face of a creed that declares itself as the one true path not only to God, but of mankind. It's the consummation of intolerant.

Bahadur, I hope you find what you're looking for. If you start to interrogate the reality of the prophet Muhammad or the shia master Ali, away from Islamic hagiography (and the historical truth and reality of Muhammad is very different from the hagiography that Muslims peddle), you'll discover some disturbing truths about Islam, and should you ever find that your path takes you to another river, you'll have to deal with a bizarre religious dogma that declares you deserve to die for betraying it, yet asserts itself as the apogee of human enlightenment! Good luck.

With all due respect there are no faults in Sikhi, there are only faults with people who call themselves, and proclaim themselves to be Sikhs.

[THE WARRIOR]

We don't have nutcases and maniacs

yes we do

[shamsher]

VS Naipaul an authority on Shi'ism. No thank you I'd rather stick with the real scholars like Henry Corbin or Moezzi.

[Prem]

Warrior

You misunderstand the point I was making. In light of my earlier discussion I'm dissapointed. Sikhi has fanatics and the intolerant, but it does not have a mainstream decree that anyone who is not Sikh is inherently inferior or in need of salvation, nor does it have a mainstream theology of imperial reaching, nor does it have a mainstream theology that prescribes death to those who leave the religion. As you so rightly point out, Sikhi does not really have flaws, but it does have flawed practitioners.

[Mehtab Singh]

If you had stuck with Dhann Dhann Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee Maharaj, you wouldn't have to go anywhere.

Anyways...

You said Sahib Sri Guru Nanak Dev Jee Maharaj was a Shia Sufi ?

Guru Arjan Dev Ji in Raag Bhairao on Ang 1136

BYrau mhlw 5 ]

bhairo mehalaa 5 ||

Bhairao, Fifth Mehla:

vrq n rhau n mh rmdwnw ]

varath n reho n meh ramadhaanaa ||

I do not keep fasts, nor do I observe the month of Ramadaan.

iqsu syvI jo rKY indwnw ]1]

this saevee jo rakhai nidhaanaa ||1||

I serve only the One, who will protect me in the end. ||1||

eyku gusweI Alhu myrw ]

eaek gusaaee alahu maeraa ||

The One Lord, the Lord of the World, is my God Allah.

ihMdU qurk duhW nybyrw ]1] rhwau ]

hi(n)dhoo thurak dhuhaa(n) naebaeraa ||1|| rehaao ||

He adminsters justice to both Hindus and Muslims. ||1||Pause||

hj kwbY jwau n qIrQ pUjw ]

haj kaabai jaao n theerathh poojaa ||

I do not make pilgrimages to Mecca, nor do I worship at Hindu sacred shrines.

eyko syvI Avru n dUjw ]2]

eaeko saevee avar n dhoojaa ||2||

I serve the One Lord, and not any other. ||2||

pUjw krau n invwj gujwrau ]

poojaa karo n nivaaj gujaaro ||

I do not perform Hindu worship services, nor do I offer the Muslim prayers.

eyk inrMkwr ly irdY nmskwrau ]3]

eaek nira(n)kaar lae ridhai namasakaaro ||3||

I have taken the One Formless Lord into my heart; I humbly worship Him there. ||3||

nw hm ihMdU n muslmwn ]

naa ham hi(n)dhoo n musalamaan ||

I am not a Hindu, nor am I a Muslim.

Alh rwm ky ipMfu prwn ]4]

aleh raam kae pi(n)dd paraan ||4||

My body and breath of life belong to Allah - to Raam - the God of both. ||4||

khu kbIr iehu kIAw vKwnw ]

kahu kabeer eihu keeaa vakhaanaa ||

Says Kabeer, this is what I say:

gur pIr imil Kuid Ksmu pCwnw ]5]3]

gur peer mil khudh khasam pashhaanaa ||5||3||

meeting with the Guru, my Spiritual Teacher, I realize God, my Lord and Master. ||5||3||

Gurujee went to Mecca because He was a Muslim?

puCx Kol ikqwb nUM vfw ihMdU kI muslmwnoeI]

pushhan khol kithaab noo vaddaa hi(n)dhoo kee musalamaanoee||

They asked Baba Nanak to open and search in his book whether Hindu is great or the Muslim.

bwbw AwKy hwzIAW SuB AmlW bwJo dovyN roeI]

baabaa aakhae haazeeaaa(n) shubh amalaa(n) baajho dhovae roee||

Baba replied to the pilgrim hajis, that, without good deeds both will have to weep and wail.

ihMdU muslmwn doie drgih AMdr lYx n FoeI]

hi(n)dhoo musalamaan dhoe dharagehi a(n)dhar lain n dtoee||

Only by being a Hindu or a Muslim one can not get accepted in the court of the Lord.

jW bwbw su`qw rwq nUM v`l mihrwby pWie pswrI]

jaa(n) baabaa suthaa raath noo vaal mehiraabae paa(n)e pasaaree||

When Baba (Nanak) slept in the night spreading his legs towards the alcove of mosque at Kaba,

jIvn mwrI lq dI kyVHw suqw ku&r ku&wrI]

jeevan maaree lath dhee kaerrhaa suthaa kur kuaaree||

the qazi named Jivan kicked him and asked who was this infidel enacting blasphemy.

lqW vl ^udwie dy ikauNkr pieAw hoie bjgwrI]

lathaa(n) val khhudhaae dhae kiou(n)akar paeiaa hoe bajagaaree||

Why this sinner is sleeping his legs spread towards God, Khuda.

tMgoN pkV GsIitAw iPirAw m`kw klw idKwrI]

tta(n)go pakarr ghaseettiaa firiaa maakaa kalaa dhikhaaree||

Catching hold of the legs he lynched (Baba Nanak) and lo and behold the miracle, the whole of Mecca seemed to be revolving.

hoie hYrwn kryn juhwrI ]óò]

hoe hairaan karaen juhaaree ||aa||

All got surprised and they all bowed.

Gurujee was "below" the Rasool and Imam because He was a Shia Sufi?

Guru Arjan Dev Ji in Raag Soohee on Ang 749

sUhI mhlw 5 ]

soohee mehalaa 5 ||

Soohee, Fifth Mehla:

ijs ky isr aUpir qUM suAwmI so duKu kYsw pwvY ]

jis kae sir oopar thoo suaamee so dhukh kaisaa paavai ||

When You stand over our heads, O Lord and Master, how can we suffer in pain?

boil n jwxY mwieAw mid mwqw mrxw cIiq n AwvY ]1]

bol n jaanai maaeiaa madh maathaa maranaa cheeth n aavai ||1||

The mortal being does not know how to chant Your Name - he is intoxicated with the wine of Maya, and the thought of death does not even enter his mind. ||1||

myry rwm rwie qUM sMqw kw sMq qyry ]

maerae raam raae thoo sa(n)thaa kaa sa(n)th thaerae ||

O my Sovereign Lord, You belong to the Saints, and the Saints belong to You.

qyry syvk kau Bau ikCu nwhI jmu nhI AwvY nyry ]1] rhwau ]

thaerae saevak ko bho kishh naahee jam nehee aavai naerae ||1|| rehaao ||

Your servant is not afraid of anything; the Messenger of Death cannot even approach him. ||1||Pause||

jo qyrY rMig rwqy suAwmI iqn@ kw jnm mrx duKu nwsw ]

jo thaerai ra(n)g raathae suaamee thinh kaa janam maran dhukh naasaa ||

Those who are attuned to Your Love, O my Lord and Master, are released from the pains of birth and death.

qyrI bKs n mytY koeI siqgur kw idlwsw ]2]

thaeree bakhas n maettai koee sathigur kaa dhilaasaa ||2||

No one can erase Your Blessings; the True Guru has given me this assurance. ||2||

nwmu iDAwiein suK Pl pwiein AwT phr AwrwDih ]

naam dhhiaaein sukh fal paaein aat(h) pehar aaraadhhehi ||

Those who meditate on the Naam, the Name of the Lord, obtain the fruits of peace. Twenty-four hours a day, they worship and adore You.

qyrI srix qyrY BrvwsY pMc dust lY swDih ]3]

thaeree saran thaerai bharavaasai pa(n)ch dhusatt lai saadhhehi ||3||

In Your Sanctuary, with Your Support, they subdue the five villains. ||3||

igAwnu iDAwnu ikCu krmu n jwxw swr n jwxw qyrI ]

giaan dhhiaan kishh karam n jaanaa saar n jaanaa thaeree ||

I know nothing about wisdom, meditation and good deeds; I know nothing about Your excellence.

sB qy vfw siqguru nwnku ijin kl rwKI myrI ]4]10]57]

sabh thae vaddaa sathigur naanak jin kal raakhee maeree ||4||10||57||

Guru Nanak is the greatest of all; He saved my honor in this Dark Age of Kali Yuga. ||4||10||57||

If only you had followed Gurbani...

If only you had loved ONLY Gurujee...

If only you had seeked acceptance from Gurujee and not so-called Sikhs...

But alas...

Anyways...Gurujee bless you!

[OhTwadi]

metha siaaa, chad dey gusaa. kuteya dey bhaukan naal shera nu koi farak ni penda

[Mehtab Singh]

acha? chal tu kenna te gussa thukk dinna

aa lai

aaaaaakkkhhhh thhhooooooo

[OhTwadi]

gand pa ta, saaf tera peyo karu?

oye, mai gusa thukkan nu ni, chaddan nu keha se

[Mehtab Singh]

gand pa ta, saaf tera peyo karu?

oye, mai gusa thukkan nu ni, chaddan nu keha se

pyo nu vich na leyaa oye...ohna naalo mennu zaada gussa aunda...LOL...gussa shaddeeda kidda aa? je shaddta fer muddke kadi aauga nai...ohda ki faida?

[OhTwadi]

na thukeya hoya, tu ketey chatda wapas leyan nu