anti-panthic things

[CFD]

I would sincerely like to apologize for my comment that Taksal will turn into a joke.

It wasn't meant to make Taksal look but i was letting out my frustration at how short sighted people can sometimes be.

Secondly,

If you don't want to discuss an issue that's your choice and you are certainly entitled to your own opinion. But EDUCATION and INFORMATION and INDEPENDENT RESEARCH AND ANALYSIS are what's going to get the panth out of it's current state.

Do you want your sisters to forever lose the rehit of dastaar. Do you want the sant samaj and santdom to continue. IT IS THE RESPONSIBILITY OF EVERY SINGH/SINGHNEE TO EDUCATE THEMSELVES ON THESE ISSUES AND GROW A BACKBONE AND TAKE A STAND INSTEAD OF ALWAYS HIDING BEHIND "...oh i hate discussing controversial issues..."

We not only owe it to ourselves but ultimately to guru sahib. How can we face him when throughout our lives we didn't support his rehit. When while trying to be politically correct we forgot to stand by our principles.

A man without principles can exist... but a Sikh of Guru Gobind Singh can not. Not taking a stand for Siki principles is equivalent to denying your Sikhi.

Maybe some of you don't understand these words. but when i say " in the spirit of panthic chardi kala.... i mean IN THE SPIRIT OF PANTHIC CHARDI KALA"

The only allegiance i've is to Guru Granth SAhib jee Maharaj. I have no allegiance to today's santdom or deras only to Guru and his rehit.

This being a forum for SIKH youth i was hoping to have a discussion about what i belive to be the problems facing the panth... i apologize

again for my wording... but some of you people need to grow up and figure out how you are going to go through life...will you take a stand for guru sahib's hukams or will you always choose to sit on the wall.

sorry for the harsh words ... I get frustrated with the condition of my fellow sikhs.

guru rakha ... guru sada bakshanhar ... sangat sada bakshanhar.

[Gupt daasan daas]

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

san tje did 115, and panj granthis, which is sukhmani sahib, asa di vaar, and nitenem. ok. And as for the shaeed thing, u guys say, ohhh, i respect sant je, i love him, but on the other hand u go and say hes shaeed, even though there is a recorded tape where sant je says to listen to baba je, and baba je says sant je is not shaeehed. Fine, go ahead, listen to the governmetn instead of sant je and baba je, im sure theyre telling the truth. And as for that sant je doing panj granthi, and 115 jap ji sahib paats daily, who are u to say anything on this?

Did u stay with em? Do u know anyone that did? So many singhs stayed with sant je, and so many are alive. They alls ay that sant je did the paat above. U cant just get up and start doing what sant je did. What sant je did takes a lot of bhagti. You have to do more than nitenem, thats the minumum, you have to go all the way to do what sant je did. He just didnt pick up a chola, a teer, a gun, and awake the sleeping sikhs.

bhula chuka maf

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

[Jaspaul Singh]

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

san tje did 115, and panj granthis, which is sukhmani sahib, asa di vaar, and nitenem. ok. And as for the shaeed thing, u guys say, ohhh, i respect sant je, i love him, but on the other hand u go and say hes shaeed, even though there is a recorded tape where sant je says to listen to baba je, and baba je says sant je is not shaeehed. Fine, go ahead, listen to the governmetn instead of sant je and baba je, im sure theyre telling the truth. And as for that sant je doing panj granthi, and 115 jap ji sahib paats daily, who are u to say anything on this?

Did u stay with em? Do u know anyone that did? So many singhs stayed with sant je, and so many are alive. They alls ay that sant je did the paat above. U cant just get up and start doing what sant je did. What sant je did takes a lot of bhagti. You have to do more than nitenem, thats the minumum, you have to go all the way to do what sant je did. He just didnt pick up a chola, a teer, a gun, and awake the sleeping sikhs.

bhula chuka maf

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

Waheguru jio!

Khalistani veerji we understand your emotion where u r comign form and and i can say majority of the sangat respects bhai sajib ji ... but u have to read carefully wat veerji said in the above post. He said one

veerji said this and one said this.... one says this and one says this...

Basically we have soo many controversies goin on and veerji simply saying how to stop i t... cuz one says somethin and the other says somethin else... conflicts ... and DOUBTS in youngsters minds....

bhul chuk maph! B)

[Gupt daasan daas]

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

whatever i said was hwta the singhs who stayed with sant je told me.

bhula chuka maf

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

[AK-47]

Firstly why does anybody doubt that a gursikh can do such an amount of Gurbani in a day!?

We all read about how a sikh should contemplate vaheguru 24hours a day, well lets try the maths, 125 japji sahibs, 10mins each, is around 21 hours. thats if some joker like us tried to do it.

Secondly lets some of us try to read that much gurbani and AFTER we become enlightened and reach a certain level of bhagti, then maybe we can say what ammount of gurbani is ridiculous and what is not. At a recent student discussion, some people were arguing that 2 and a half hours of bhagti a day was over the top and un realistic in this world.

Same goes for Baba Deep Singh Ji's Shaheedi, is that an exageration too?!

People judge sikhi on their own understanding, some will say Baba Deep Singh Ji's head never came off at all, but that his neck was cut and he put his hand over the wound and carried on fighting.

The examples used are a bit weak, 10 japji sahibs difference is hardly a panthic controversy. As for whether Sant Jarnail Singh Ji is Shaheed or not, shouldnt make a difference. We have to carry on the seva regardless, those of us who believe in Baba Takhar Singh Ji's bachan are free to do so, and those wo dont thats their choice as well.

If vaheguru wants sant to return he will, simple as that. Theres no need for anybody to worry about it, what will or will not happen will not change by us getting our kashere in a twist!

I agree with the dodgy babeh etc but we know the problem, so if you want to discuss something discuss the solution!!

Try reading through some threads, on many many issues we will cry moan and whinge about stuff, but there a

re few of us who actually can offer SOLUTIONS to these issues.

Education is what we usually fall back on, but then what!? who is going to do it? what type of edu? what methods? what will it cost? where do you get the money from etc?

If you want to change something think practically, let that keep you awake at night, not whether sant jarnail singh ji does 115 or 125 japji sahibs a day!

[Guest Akaal108]

Sat siri akaal CFD veer,

Gotta interesting topic for ya:

http://www.gursikhijeevan.com/community/ph...1&i=2767&t=2767

I hope this answers it.

You wanna promote anti-santdom and you will find resistance!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Gurbar AKAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAL :e:

[navjotsingh]

for those who believe sant jee is coming back good for you, for those who dont good for you to. But why do you guys have to always bring this topic up when you know its never ending. At on side you talk about ekta and then on ther other side you guys say sant jee is not gonna come back which is is gonna cause fricition between singhs, and pretty sure thats not how you get ekta. Thsi topic is been discuss so much, just leave it. Im just waiting for the day he does. But that doesnt mean dont try to fix things ourselves for the panth because sant jee will fix it when he comes back. Do paath, naam japo, do sewa, keep rehit. Dont discuss pointless thisngs like this wich cause differences. One person has his veiws another has a digfferent one, and that comment about taksal wasnt good brejin, dont say that kind of stuff because that will make ppl made and cause differences. If a persn belives hes comign back doesnt make him a less gursikh from who doesnt beleive hes coming back. For the comment about him doing 115 japji sahibs and x numbers of sukhmani sahib is believable. Becuae he is a bramguani "brahgiani aap nirankar. The things whvich brahgianis can do is not questionable, because they are at a different level then average so called sikhs like me. So again dont disscus point less topics like this just jeep rehit, if he comes back and if he doesnt he doesnt just dont rely on him we got to take him as an example and try to fix things ourselves.

[CFD]

If a persn belives hes comign back doesnt make him a less gursikh from who doesnt beleive hes coming back. For the comment about him doing 115 japji sahibs and x numbers of sukhmani sahib is believable. Becuae he is a bramguani "brahgiani aap nirankar. The things whvich brahgianis can do is not questionable, because they are at a different level then average so called sikhs like me. So again dont disscus point less topics like this just jeep rehit, if he comes back and if he doesnt he doesnt just dont rely on him we got to take him as an example and try to fix things ourselves.

First you say it's pointless debating this stuff and then you go onto support why he is coming back and you then try to give reasons as to why he could do a lot of paath. You are not consistent.

and why do people claim to know the avastha of others.

The typical answer "giani thakur singh ji is a brahmgiani and he said baba jarnail singh is a brahmgiani".

Then i ask "how do u know baba thakur singh ji is a brahmgiani"

the typical answer "baba jarnail singh said he is one"

doesn't anyone else see the convenience of this argument. Get real people and learn to think for yourselves. Guru granth sahib ji is the only sant we need to turn to for guidance.

and sangat ofcourse.

If you read my posts carefully i'm only picking up inconsistencies in stories and suggesting that perhaps people shouldn't beli

eve everything they hear.

A lot of the people replying have totally side-tracked the real issue i raised.

Why?

[navjotsingh]

hahahi know im not one to say if ones a brahgyani and not, but go and sit beside and talk to baba ji and lets see if you could say hes not a brahgyani. I dont need anyone to say anything baba ji is amazing just by looking at him hes has all this energy around it just makes you feel so good when your around. Also so when i said it doesnt matter stop debating that doesnt mean that i belive he isnt coming back. My opinion can be anything it doesnt matter but i dont always bring up this topic. If some one brings up the topic then i talk about now its been brought up to much on this form and it is going no where.

[AK-47]

My friend, yes you have questioned sant jarnail singh ji's ability to raed Gurbani, why else do you question wether or not that is realistsic?! You say people make him out to be a superman? why because he read a lot of gurbani? so yes you are questioning that ability, since that is the point of debate it seems.

the story of baba deep singh ji has everything to do with this thread, your saying that stories vary from one another, well im giving you the varaint on the story of baba deep singh ji. There are now 2 stories for you to choose from, they are inconsistant with each other. yet they both exist.

Again i dont see your point arguing over 10 japji sahibs, the probability is that we never truely c an or will ever understand the complexity of the bhagti of a gurmukh, gursikhs probably do many 100 times more gurbani than we can even imagine so this issue over 10 japji sahibs isnt relavant. IF you knew exactualy how much gurbani sant ji did would that make you feel better?

i dont understand your angle, again i repeat you have used pointless examples, whilst trying to make this a panthic discussion, you have managed to turn it into a taksal discussion. are you telling me that whilst writing this the only two points of controversy that affect the quam tha you could think of where how much gurbani sant ji read and whether or not hes coming back?!?!

sorry if i am wrong here, but your true colours are shown by the tangent you have taken on sants. your frustration is with the label sant. would a singh praise another singh!? have you even read any gurbani from Guru Gobind Singh Ji?! have you read the ustaat guru ji heaps upon his sikhs!?<

br>And your gurmat is limited to your own manmat, ordinarily sikhs feel fine walking around telling the world that we belive that god exists within everyone, that god is everywhere, that we need to realise that god is within us etc etc etc

YET when for some people Vaheguru is completely within them, when for some people jeevan mukti is a real deal here and now, you think its anti sikhi!? Tell me where does god not exist! If sant ji has pointed to a tree and said that there is god within that tree, what would you say!? would you say NOOOO how dare you say that!? when sant ji looked upon Baba Takhar singh ji, we will never know what he saw within them, what qualities of humility compassion etc he saw, becuase we have minds full of filth that due to our own failures look to others to be on the same low level as we are.

Have you ever done ardaas or had an akhand path for someone that you love? if yes, then what is your issue with people doing ardas for sant ji?!

Also i personally have never seen a gutka sahib printed which asks (not tells 'asks') the sangat to pray for sant ji. If you have or know of one, please tell me and i will take a look for myself. Unless this is one of the stories you go on about.

Again it seems you are one of 2 types of people;A) Have enormous levels of bhagti and believe that any ardaas you do will be answered by Guru Ji

or B) talk the talk but when it comes to actually planning and doing something, you fall back on the good old lets just do ardas and let guru deal with it!

Tell me do you revise for exams? Why? Why dont you just sit there and do naam abyaas for the weeks leading up to them?

Do you go to work to feed your family?

Why not just do japji sahib all day?

If you cando that then im sure guru ji would provide for you, but since most of us cant we have to take some

sort of physical action which with the grace of the gury will be fruitfull.

If you want to get rid of false babeh, you sitting there aint gonna do it.

Have you tried printing books and posters? Do you know they cost money? Do you also know that most of us dont have the kind of money needed to fund such ventures lying around, therefore we need to raise it. Do you have the crew and facilities to make a comprehensive documentary of why the rss is trying to blend hinduism and sikhi? Do you have the contacts within the television networks for you to be able to broadcast it?

THINK, all we ever do is complain and cry, why not do something, to do something, you need resoucres and people. In the 80's Sant Ji kept reminding the sangat to purchase arms, because once the war started it would no good coming to him, as he didnt have a warehouse full of stocks. He could have said just do ardas and everything will be fine as well!

Look, if you want to discuss sants and non-sants do it on another thread, you speak of agendas well what is your agenda? why are you so upset that people speak with such pyaar for sant ji? Who would you rather have us speak about?

You really need to study your history my friend, you chat about trying to gain members and not acting for the panth,

history lesson

Who led the movement aginst the fake sants and guru's in the 70's? Sant Kartar Singh Ji

Who led the morcha in the 80's? Sant Jarnail Singh Ji.

Who led the sarbat khalsa in 1986 at akal takhat, and decided to rebuild it and have the resolution for khalistan be placed? Sant Baba Takhar Singh Ji

These stories are about people who have actually done something, not for personal gain, but for the panth, try listening to some of sant jarnail singh ji's talks, tell me what does he say of taking amrit?

There was one singh who got tortured by the police and they asked him who did you take amrit off, he said Bhindranwale, so they shaved half his moustcache and dhari off and said go

and tell Bhindranwale to do what he can, this is what we have done to his man.

Sant ji from the stage told the sangat this story and then reprimanded the singh, he said "i have asked you the sangat many times, to remmeber that the amrit you take is not off the taksal or from any other place, it is from the panj pyareh. When someone asks you where did you take amrit, say Anandpur Sahib, when they ask from who, dnt say Bhindranwale, say I took it from the Pany Pyareh. Your mothers name is Mata Sahib Kaur and your Father is Guru Gobind Singh.

Now is that panthic, or is it better to say as MANY of us will now say that i took amrit from this jatha, which means i have to marry someone from this jatha, and i can only do simran with someone who has had amrit from the same plac e and jatha as me, and only my amrit is the real amrit etc etc etc?!

Im not pointing fingers my friend, but if you want to discuss what is panthic and not panthic, then be carefull about whose name you choose to mention in that discussion. Try finding your own agenda before searching for others, your little 'slips' have quite nicely revealed yours to me i must add, but im sure you will deny that.

Finally i regret posting any sakia about gursikhs on here, if people want to find out they had best do there own research face to face. And if they have a problem then again they have the courage to question someone face to face those who have lived and bled with those whose stories you question.