anti-panthic things

[Gupt daasan daas]

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

Vaheguru Je Ka Khalsa Vaheguru Je Ke Fateh

Little Singho, sun la meri gul

Sant Jarnail Singh was GIVEN hukam by punj singhs to leave the scene. He did not run, rather was obedient to the hukam of Guru Sahib. As per your stories, I have heard stories by Singhs who were in Akaal Takhat Sahib with Sant Ji, who witnessed Sant Ji standing under the nishaan sahibs, and saying as they watched Sant Ji stand there a hail-storm of bullets blazed passed, right to the spot where sant ji was standing, causing a thick dark cloud of blazing bullets. A cloud so thick that nothing could be seen. It was after the bullets passed that they were sure that Sant Ji was shaheed however when they looked at the floor or the near by surroundings no body or any object (cloth, gatra hair, etc) nothing that even would have given a hint that Sant Ji was hit by a bullet was there for sight.

Singho not a TRACE of evidence has been found that Sant Jarnail Singh was shaheed only thing people go on is that well if he isn't around or hasn't been seen then where is he...he must be dead...??..

Sant Ji himself would say on stages that when he gets shaheedi he wants his body to be shown, but SINGHO their was no body!!!!

Rumors are also that Sant Ji's wife identified the body of Sant Jaranil singh, these are again FALSE as she has said that she looked at a body and said it was not Sant Jarnail Singhs. Various pictures of Shaheeds have popped up with captions of them being Sant Ji on his death bed.

First off if these pictures surfaced, this means that Sant Ji's body was recovered b

y Singhs...Which singhs where they? on one hand it was recovered and photo's taken (out of which a positive match on Sant Ji's body can not be made) Secondly if Singhs recovered the body then why where more "clear" photos never taken?? also If the body was recovered by Singhs then why was it that these singhs did not fulfil Sant Ji's benti of his Sanskaar? Singhs of the panth all respected Sant Ji and all knew of how he wanted to die, and how he wanted his funeral, so WHY!?! would they go against Sant Ji's benti, "because they where blood thirsty politicians who had this planed out from the start?"??

Some people can argue that these photos where taken and presented by the goverment, oh sangto if the goverment really had Sant Ji's body they would have marched up and down the streets of delhi, shown it all over the media just to get across that Sant Ji was no more!!! Also if these pictures are taken from the goverment then WHY Sangto do you beleive these?? These are just as authentic as the stories and rumors they have told billions of times before.

Nothing of Sant Ji's was ever recovered from the scene of Harmandir Sahib or Akaal Takht Sahib, of these items being his teer and pistol. Where are they?

People like to mention that Akaal Takht Sahib recently did Sant Jarnail singhs funeral and performed Sant Ji's final rights, and the papers love to gloat that Bhai Isher Singh was present, but how often have you read that Bhai Ishar Singh has since asked for maafi from Sant Baba Takhur Singh? Also it says that Taksal has since then given up that Sant Ji is Jinda!! COMPLETE LIES!!! Baba Ji amongst everything that has been going on in the recent months continues to state CLEARLY that sant Jinda hun. People make this a point of asking Baba Takhur Singh Ji, "is Sant Jarnail Shaheed?", to which at all times Baba Takhur Singh has noted that Sant Jinda Hun, and that they are not lying, that they fear death and thus would not tell lies.

If Sant Ji does not return sangta can pull their dara (beard). They have promised sangta, not to worry and that before they pass, Sant Jarnail singh will once again appear. (Sangto i know the way I worded it may leave for assumptions that, yes sant jarnail singh will come back in a new body, but sant Ji was never shaheed nor did they die during blue star, Sant Jarnail Singh will once again come in the same saroop)

People then ask, if Sant Jarnail singh is jinda why would they hide like this, dont they see whats going on today in the panth, sikhi has deteriated in India, RSS is opening Dera's all over, does Sant Jarnail Singh not see this...But sangto for big tasks such as the one Sant Jarnail SIngh has been given, requires tremendous amounts of preperation, preperation that was not done for BlueStar. Preperation that will be done for the next round. We must realize that mahpurkh who are of the level as Sant Jarnail Singh, Sant Baba Attar Singh, Sant Baba Nand Singh, they never think with their own man, but always are in the service of Akaal Purkh. The day Akaal Purkh gives hukam for Sant Jarnail Singh to come back so it shall be.

Sadh Sangat Jeeo we have come to such a state in Kaal Jug where the words of sants and great mahpurkh are looked at and not given second notice, we have come to a point where we will belive in the words of kuraati's because they hold degrees over the honest and simple words of Gurmukh pyarai who have dedicated their lives to sewa and bani.

Sangto only Akaal purkh knows of the exact date, when sant Jarnail Singh will once again arrive. I am not in any way saying that we can sit and relax. No Sangto read your bani, do your amrit vela, keep as strict of a rehat that you can manage. Take amrit if you have not done so. The dushts of Death is forever lurking behind us. In an instant we come, and in an instant we pass. Read bani, create such love for Guru Sahib, bathe in the dust of of the saints...Lets all stop stealing from Satuguru Maharaaj Sri Guru Granth Sahi

b Ji, and instead beg at the door of Satguru Mahraj Sri Guru Nanak for the glorious gift off Naam.

Bhai sahib Navjot singh je wrote the above, or got it from somewhere else

ANd may i add

if u respect sant je

he told sikhs to listen to baba thakur singh regarding damdami taksal, etc.

And baba je is very firm in saying sant je is not shaeheed

soo, dt question a mahprsh like at baba je on this one

who we gonna listen to, indian gov. or sant je and baba je?

bhula chuka maf

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

[Guest mehtab]

i feel ashamed of myself

i was also one of those who was wondering (not questioning) as to how sant jee could do so much paath

but now i realize that i am not even worth wondering!!! forget about questioning!!!

i doubt how much time it will take me to reach 10% of sant jee's level of bhagti

so i take back my words and apologize at the feet of the sangat if i said something that was inappropriate (although i know i never said anything against sant jee or doubting his greatness)

:WW:

[Guest Akaal108]

gosh soo many hate mongers on the internet.. @ @ . I would be devestated to know about them in real life :D @ :wub: @

[Mkhalsa]

OK, lets stop insulting great gursikhs. I dont even think thats where this thread was meant to go.

I think what cfd was trying to say is that we are all under attack by anti panthic forces, they will pick at every little inconsistency they can find (he gave an example) we need to fix these and find the truth and portray the truth, because if we are bringing about falsehood then it will only come back to haunt us.

so instead of brushing it aside, we should find out what the real story is and say that, thats all. I dont doubt he could do 115-125 patts a day, but which one is accurate?

same as other falsehoods ive heard that are propogated for no reason. We should just tell the truth and not lie and make propoganda. And please dont think I am bashing taksal because I am not, I am talking about EVERY jatha of the panth. If an AKJ person starts making propoganda and lies I would tell them off the same as anyone else. A singh should not lie, or even propogate mistruths. Only talk about something when u know its the truth.

[Gupt daasan daas]

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

i get wat u saying bhai sahib, but all damdami taksal singhs who stayed with baba je say 115. I think they would know. Oh, and sant je also did 5 granthis.

bhula chuka maf

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

[mann_kaum_layee_qurbaan]

oho yaar chill out, ami larde rehene ah, whomever comes back and whomever doesn't come back is not the point, you guys all sound like some Jewish people waiting for the Messiah, to save us all....Sant Jarnail Singh Ji Khalsa was a mahaan shaksheeat, he inspired us all to embrace Sikhi and uphold traditional sikh values and opened the eyes of the panth to indian tyranny, the point is, be good sikhs, fight for your rights, rid the panth of the chains of slavery in INdia, as for debate about Sant Ji, if he is alive, great, if he is shaheed, great, just get your acts together, all this fighting is worthless, when it all comes down to it we all have one thing in common, we want to see the khalsa victorious, THE END!

[harminder]

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

What is it 25 paaths, 125, 115 + sukhmani sahib asa divar, i mean pick something already. I have personally heard some really radiculous stories but i won't post them here.

This sounds really funny.Veer ji whatever it is out of these options,should we doubt about any Sants capability of doing path.And about numbers i think when someone says 125 or 115 all he is indicating is that he did lot of path which no one can doubt.Now may be someone tells me 125 and then when i tell someone i forget what the number was and i say 115.Is it really something we should be breaking our head on,when we know we dont eeven do one Japji Sahib path ourselves??

So anyways that's just a small example. Here is a bigger one. "BABA JARNAIL SINGH JI IS COMING BACK".

People seriously need to see what they are doing by spreading such information. And this is my favourite, "BABA THAKUR SINGH JI TOLD ME PERSONALLY THAT BABA JARNAIL SINGH JI IS COMING BACK"

ONce again auseless discussion and no reason to break our heads.Our true respect for Sant ji would be to follow his soprit of saint soldier.Whether

he is alive or not we dont know.If Baba Thakur Singh ji says hes not shaheed then we have all the reason to beleive him.We should not start making opinions about such great sikhs with our so limited mind that too devoid of any gurmat.If you really have the thirst to know the truth first hand then the nest thing would be to go to Baba Thakur Singh ji and ask ourselves rather than beleiving someone who says he has talked to Baba ji.

The only allegiance i've is to Guru Granth SAhib jee Maharaj. I have no allegiance to today's santdom or deras only to Guru and his rehit.

We should read sukhmani sahibs ashtpadis regarding mahima and need of sant and sadh sangat.All true sants only helped sikhs learn sikhi better and associated sikhs with Guru and not with themselves.That way i will consider myself lucky to listen to bachans of any true Sant.BUt yes we need to be carefull about many pakhandi dehdharis and i think its not hard to ditinguish such pakhandis from Sants like Baba Jarnail Singh ji or Randhir Singh ji.

oh brother. here we go again.. 

Canadians SERIOUSLY need to LEARN UNITY ! You guys are fighting for jathas and would never stop it.. SO GO AND FIGHT.. but don't come up on MESSAGE BOARDS filled with NORMAL SIKH YOUTH like ME who are TRYING TO LEARN PLAIN SIKHI, not BASHING other groups.. This is tooo much singhoo.. I don't know what one is trying to do or want to prove by putting these type of messages on public forums.. If one has some serious issues then try to work it out in a NON-VIRTUAL/CYBER WAY !

Bhul chak

kaay maaf.. Im sick of reading these type of topics.. again and again and again ! Time to move on.. sorry for bursting my mind out.. 

We dont know whos what on internet ,so we need not be frustrated over such issues on internet at least.

The typical answer "giani thakur singh ji is a brahmgiani and he said baba jarnail singh is a brahmgiani".

Then i ask "how do u know baba thakur singh ji is a brahmgiani"

the typical answer "baba jarnail singh said he is one"

Veerji please be carefull always while using Such great peoples names like this.Again Bani tells us what Ninda of a true Sant brings?

doesn't anyone else see the convenience of this argument. Get real people and learn to think for yourselves. Guru granth sahib ji is the only sant we need to turn to for guidance.

and sangat ofcourse.

Having sangat of Sant is nothing wrong according to gurmat provided the sant is true.If our thirst is real we will find ways to find real Sant.Otherwise why we have so much in Sukhmani Sahib on Sant Di Mahima.Think over it.

Guru Granth Sahib Ji is our Guru no doubt ,nothing and noone can replace or question this.Sant themselves consider SGGS as ultimate Guru but still importance of Sant and Sadh Sangat can not be undermined.

The reason i used i used taksal was because in my understanding they seem to have the most made up stories and their answer to everything is a rather convenient cycle

Well veerji i listened to Sant Kartar Singh ji Khalsa cassettes and after hearing him its almost impossible for me to beleive that whatever he is saying is not correct.And he described lineage of Taksaal also.I dont have the strength and Courage to doubt Some one like him. Nor do i need any proof to beleive what he says.

I have nothing against Taksal per se just against propaganda and in my understanding Taksal has been spreading propaganda. If you think otherwise prove me wrong by use of facts and documentation.

ONce again veerji are we even .000001% of those Sants we are discussing here.Lets first try to do some kamai of Gurmat ourselves,lets first listen and understand what these Sants are telling us.You need proof and documentation?? Once again i say listen to Sant Kartar Singh jees or Sant Jarnail Singh jees katha or veechar and then see if you still need it.If you do then its really unfortunate.

We don't need deras and we dont' need to go to sants for bachans all we need we can get from guru granth sahib ji.

Yes ofcourse but we do need schools for gurmat studies.taksaal had been founded just by that motive.As far as needing sants bachans once again go through Sukhmani Sahib on need o

f Sant.Sants only teach us like a teacher .the ultimate is only subject which is Aaal Purakh.

The only problem I have is people putting someone's name inside a gutka sahib and asking the masses to do paath for that one person. Only bani should be within a gutka sahib.

I have seen Taksaali Gutka and have not seen such a thing.

I request AK-47 and Khalistanu veer to get emotional on this issue.We should try and ponder on things CFD has raised.It will only help clear doubts of sangat here and our own doubts.

Lets behave like sikhs.

IN the end i will request everyone to remember results of "Sant ki Ninda" as told in Gurbani before pulling names of such great souls into such discussions.

Apologies for anything said wrongly.

Gurfateh

Harminder Singh

[harminder]

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

I request AK-47 and Khalistanu veer to get emotional on this issue

Sorry for mistake i meant "I request AK-47 and Khalistanu veer to NOT get emotional on this issue"

[CFD]

I won't really bother answering K-47 and the others b/c they haven't really said anything new.

I will however outline my points in a more coherent fashion.

1) Only way to know who is and who isn't a brahmgiani is to be one yourself. Brahmgiani's don't go around telling people their avastha.

People said Baba Jarnail Singh says baba thakur singh ji is a brahmgiani and baba thakur singh ji says that baba jarnail singh ji is a brahmgiani.

This is a rather convenient argument. The whole argument rests on baba thakur singh ji being a brahmgiani.

I personally don't think he is but that's another case altogether. I know people will say what avastha do u have to judge somone else. Well i don't. But neither do the people who spread these stories. We ultimately want to belive that they are brahmgiani.

I am thinking of baba buddha ji and bhai marda ji and bhai gurdas ji. They were all amazing gursikhs and guru sahib even called bhai gurdas ji's writing the key to Siri Guru

Granth Sahib ji. So these great sikhs didn't have a following. They didn't have deras. They merely served teh guru. who are people of today to make deras etc.

In the olden days when people had a problem they used to run to Guru maharaj and he would help them out. They'd do ardaas in his charan.

What do people do today. They run to a sant etc. forgetting the eternal guru ...Guru Granth Sahib ji.

That is the problem that I have with people who have a following. Instead of being attached to gurbani people are attached to Sants and it is both the fault of the "Sant" and the person who goes on spreading stories about t

heir sants etc.

I know a lot you won't admit the reality of baba jarnail singh etc. and that's ur choice.

I don't care anymore to convince anyone otherwise. Just wanted to show that their are holes , large ones at that, in some of the Taksali stories.

Anyone is yet to show any documentation of Taksal from the early 1900's . There isn't any because Taksal didn't exist then. Now don't go saying i'm calling baba thakur singh ji a liar. I'm just saying he tell people what he belives. He doesn't have to be right all the time.

If he is right then I request anyone to prove it. Show me the documentation istead of telling me to go see him. Their is nothing that can show taksal is puratan. The lineage that Taksal claims has already been proven wrong by Vir Singh on this very message board.

Anyways, I won't be responding any further on this particular topic. It just saddens me to see people so whipped and brainwashed. Learn to think for yourselves and rely on your guru and not your sant. Your guru gave you sikhi and he inspires you not a sant.

"brahmgiani apay nirankar"

This has been used over and over again. This pankti means that Brahmgiani is LIKE God and not God himself.

If Brahmgiani was God himself then you could do an ardaas to brahmgiani's couldn't you. instead of doing ardaas to guru sahib people would then start doing ardaas to whomever they believed was a sant. Get real people ... guru sahib is the only sant you need and get this through your heads.

I know guru sahib gives mehma to sangat of a sant and it's great but the fact is that a real sant won't tell you or let other people know that he's a sant. He is the one who consider himself to be the lowest and thus is the highest in guru's eyes.

I just hope that your faith in Sikhi isn't broken when baba ji doesn't come back. So i suggest you develop a strong connection with guru granth sahib ji and not

rely on someone being a brahmgiani to justify your beliefs.

In Spirit of Panthic Chardi Kala,

CFD