Doubts And Clarifications In Bani

[besoft]

as usual thanks for wonderful explanation.I am convinced that each and everyone mentioned in bani as guru is guru. Most of them had realised the god. However, shiva , parvati ,vishnu all will be like our gurus sahibs who had attained the god .Their status would be of gurus.

NO

Hello Friend,

You are referring to ad3.

You may kindly clarify and advise as to how things should be. To me this appears to be as per Gurbani.

Request

pl. begin your answer with ad3.

[Heera Singh]

DOUBT #4

suixAY eIsru brmw ieMdu ] (2-18, jpu, mÚ 1)

By listening to the name of God with love and devotion, a person obtains God's qualities. (reference to Hindu gods – Hindu's believe Shiva, Brahma, and Indra have Godly qualities).

Eesar: Hindu god, Lord Shiva-god of destruction, Barma: Lord Brahma-god of creation, Ind: Lord Indra- god of rain

suixAY muiK swlwhx mMdu ] (2-19, jpu, mÚ 1)

By listening to the name of God with love and devotion, even the sinners get enlightened and start singing His praises.

suixAY jog jugiq qin Byd ] (2-19, jpu, mÚ 1)

By listening to the name of God with love and devotion, a person comes to know the way of achieving unity with God and mysteries of the human body.

suixAY swsq isimRiq vyd ] (2-19, jpu, mÚ 1)

By listening to the name of God with love and devotion, a person attains spiritual knowledge. Reference to Hindu Scriptures – Shastras, Simrities, and Vedas implies spiritual knowledge - Hindu's believe these scriptures have all the knowledge and wisodom, so Guru Sahib is saying, by Listening to Naam and Bani, a person will attain all the knowledge and wisdom in the world.

nwnk Bgqw sdw ivgwsu ] (2-19, jpu, mÚ 1)

Nanak says, His devotees (person who listens to the name of God with love and devotion), are always in the state of true joy and happiness.

Doubt #5

i said in one of my earlier posts

you have to remember, the majority of the people in india were hindu (and some muslim)... so Guru sahib wrote in a way that the people would be able to understand...

A lot of what Guru Sahib writes is written as metaphors (i.e. poetry). What Guru Sahib is saying in this shabad is that by listening to naam and bani (and not just 'hearing', but 'contemplating' inside yourself; ur mind and ur soul), that a person can attain those certain qualities that were given to those devi's and scritpures by the Hindu's...

Doubt #6

Again, please refer to what I stated above.

The people of those days (and also of today) believe that the Veda's and Simritees and Shastra's contained all the spiritual and wordly knowledge. So, Guru Sahib is saying saying to people that the by listening (and contemplating) Naam and Bani, one will attain all knowledge and wisdom. (again, a metaphor).

I think Guru Sahib acknowledges that there IS some spiritual knowledge in the Vedas, but nothing that can comprehend the being of Akaal Puarkh.

remember, Guru Sahib says no matter how much a person may try, they cannot 'describe' God (describing God, knowing God, would mean that the person would have all the knowledge and wisdom in the world)

"Priceless, O Priceless beyond expression! Speak of Him continually, and remain absorbed in His Love. The Vedas and the Puraanas speak. The scholars speak and lecture. Brahma speaks, Indra speaks (Hindu Goddesses). The Gopis and Krishna speak (Hindu Goddesses). Shiva speaks, the Siddhas speak. The many created Buddhas speak. The demons speak, the demi-gods speak. The spiritual warriors, the heavenly beings, the silent sages, the humble and serviceful speak. Many speak and try to describe Him. Many have spoken of Him over and over again, and have then arisen and departed. If He were to create as many again as there already are, even then, they could not describe Him. He is as Great as He wishes to be. O Nanak, the True Lord knows. If anyone presumes to describe God, he shall be known as the greatest fool of fools! ||26||"

Amulo Amulu AwiKAw n jwie] AwiK AwiK rhy ilv lwie ] AwKih vyd pwT purwx ] AwKih pVy krih viKAwx ] AwKih brmy AwKih ieMd ] AwKih gopI qY goivMd ] AwKih eIsr AwKih isD ] AwKih kyqy kIqy buD ] AwKih dwnv AwKih dyv ] AwKih suir nr muin jn syv ] kyqy AwKih AwKix pwih ] kyqy kih kih auiT auiT jwih ] eyqy kIqy hoir kryih ] qw AwiK n skih kyeI kyie ] jyvfu BwvY qyvfu hoie ] nwnk jwxY swcw soie ] jy ko AwKY boluivgwVu ] qw ilKIAY isir gwvwrw gwvwru ]26]

[Heera Singh]

Doubt #3

I can't recall the Gurbani Tuk, but i think it stated that even the Hindu Deities (Krishna, Brahma, Vishnu etc...) all went back into the cycle of "life and death". If this is the case, then they cannot be Guru's, as Guru's were one with the Lord and 'merged' back with the Lord after their physical human bodies were no more.

Hopefully sum1 can find that shabad that i'm referring to...

[munjoth]

besoft ji, it is good that you are asking questions. But there is a slight problem to what you are doing. Everyone on this board will look at a tuk of gurbani and giving his or her own opinion on what it means, so your thinking 'well how does one understand gurbani?' 'what are the true meanings?' Well gurbani says if u want to understand me then do this:

Eh Hi Bani Mahapurkhan Ki Nijghar Vaasa Hoe

You want to understand bani? Then goto the nijghar, the 4th state and you will realise what gurbani is saying. If you want to stay here and try to realise what gurbani says then this is what happens:

Trigun Saaba Dhaat Hai Par Par Kari Vichaar Mukt Kavi Naah Hovei Naah Paen Maukh Dwaar.

In the three qualities there is only 'dhaat' - division/arguements/hate...you can read and vichaar all the gurbani you want but if u remain in the 3 qualities you will never find the 4th state where one will obtain the mukti/liberation/god.

Instead of going through each paana of gurbani and reading it mechanically try this, become a khoji (researcher) and search the answer for these questions:

What is our starting point?

What was here before me?

How did god create this body?

How did god create this mind?

Why am i here?

How do i rise above the 3 qualities and get to the 4th?

gurbani says: Raam Raam Bol Bol Khoj Ti Vaadbhagi

The one that is meditating, japping naam and doing khoj (research) hand in hand is Vaadbhagi. There is no point in collecting gian it won't go with you, without bhagati we will drown here: Bhagat Bina Bhaut Dooba Siyani (without bhagati many wise men have drowned)

Please forgive me for any mistakes, i just started seeing a trend in your posts and thought i would suggest a better way to research and aid you in your path!

[OhTwadi]

I can't recall the Gurbani Tuk, but i think it stated that even the Hindu Deities (Krishna, Brahma, Vishnu etc...) all went back into the cycle of "life and death". If this is the case, then they cannot be Guru's, as Guru's were one with the Lord and 'merged' back with the Lord after their physical human bodies were no more.

Hopefully sum1 can find that shabad that i'm referring to...

mwnv ieMdR gijMdR nrwDp jOn iqRlok ko rwj krYNgy ]

The known people like god Indra, monarchs who keep GajIndar (King-elephants) and rule the whole world,

koit iesnwn gjwidk dwn Anyk suAMbr swj brYNgy ]

Those who bathe at the numberless shrines and give elephants in charity, and those who are great enough to set up self-spouse-selecting functions to marry,

bRhm mhysr ibsn scIpiq AMq Psy jm Pws prYNgy ]

What of the above said people, even Brahma, Shiva, Vishnu, and Indra too, will die in the end.

jy nr sRI piq ky pRs hYN pg qy nr Pyr n dyh DrYNgy ]8]

But, those who seek the refuge of the Lord, get liberated and do not get born again.

[Heera Singh]

ahh yes... Tva Parsaad Savaeeai...

there's also other Tuks too... i'll look for them..

[Heera Singh]

http://www.sikhitothemax.com/page.asp?ShabadID=715

there is also that shabad... but there's also a diff one i'm lookin for

[Heera Singh]

http://www.sikhitothemax.com/page.asp?ShabadID=4568

isv ibrMic Asur sur jyqy kwl Agin mih jrqy ]

nwnk srin crn kmln kI qum@ n fwrhu pRB krqy ]3]4]

Shiva, Brahma, angels and demons, all burn in the fire of death. Nanak seeks the Sanctuary of the Lord's Lotus Feet; O God, Creator, please do not send me into exile. ||3||4||

http://www.sikhitothemax.com/page.asp?ShabadID=5428

kwl klm hukmu hwiQ khhu kaunu myit skY eIsu bMm´ü g´wnu D´wnu Drq hIAY cwih jIau ]

Death's pen and command are in Your hands. Tell me, who can erase it? Shiva and Brahma yearn to enshrine Your spiritual wisdom in their hearts.

[OhTwadi]

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[besoft]

I am thankful to all above Mr, Heera , Papai ji and Munjoth ji for helping me out till ad6. Yes, Munjoth ji ,I agree that it is important to work upon meditation, chanting etc and doing bani.

I shall try to have a single answer and also go in for learning Punjabi/gurmukhi. This is going on. May take some time. As english translations are not relaible I shall rely on your info.it may take some time.

I would post the doubts from D7 on ward. Anyone is free to post the doubts that one has but for me upto D6 is clear.Kindly do not reply for theses.