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Sakhi Of The Raja And Anoop Kaur

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Recently there was a big discussion on Dasam Granth and its authority.

Shortly after that I was sent this Sakhi by a veer; which I'm attaching.

If you find it difficult to read it - just copy the text into a word document, and it'll become easier to read it :@

THIS IS NOT THE PLACE TO DISCUSS DASAM GRANTH. I only want to share this sakhi; in order to get the sangats opinion on the sakhi.

Also for kids under 14 - please cover your eyes with your hands while reading the file :D

I personally find a few weaknesses, as to why I doubt it's real.

1 - Due to the lacks shown in Guru Sahib (indicates he wasn't all knowing - i.e didn't know what he was getting in to

2- Due to his reasoning for not copulating with her. Also he does mention that one of his reasons is because that would be unfair towards his wife; I personally feel that the other motivations (FEAR out of Dharamraj - and his reputations); weren't valid - since I don't believe Guru Gobind Singh (roop of Guru Nanak, who was "Aap Narayan Kala Dhar") would need to fear anyone; nor do I think he fears his reputation - if that was the case- he woulnd't have created the Khalsa. in 1699 - people though "hey this mans gone mad - lets get OUT of here"; and most people did LEAVE the ceremoney when he asked for a head - I'm sure he's not concerned about his repuation.

3- As far as I'm aware there is no other historic sources (as far as I'm aware) that mentions this sakhi - i.e suraj parkash, panth parkash etc etc. Surely his Poets would have mentioned something about it - if he openely decleared that he wanted to find "this theif"

Although the message is clear - don't get stuck into maya; I think the above mentioned reasons make the saki dubious; and I personally have doubts that the author (and the Raja in the story) is Guru Gobind Singh himself. I'd take it with a kurchi of salt.

Please do share your opinions on the Sakhi; and PLEASE lets not turn this into a pro or anti Dasam Granth thread :umm:

charitro.txt

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Waheuguru Jee Kaa Khalsa Waheguru Jee Kee Fateh

I agree with you. I just don't believe that, that would be Guru Gobind Singh Jee. Maybe Guru Sahib is talking about a different raja? Maybe someone like Akhbar? I dun't know really. Just my two cents. Bhul Chuk Maaf

Waheguru Jee Kaa Khalsa Waheguru Jee Kee Fateh!

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1 - Due to the lacks shown in Guru Sahib (indicates he wasn't all knowing - i.e didn't know what he was getting in to

Did'n Guru Gobind Singh know that the pathans would betray him? Did'n Guru Gobind Singh know that Aurangzeb would'n follow his oath on the Quran? your argument is invalid my friend ..

your second argument starts with:

I personally feel that the other motivations

and here i rest my case.. its not upto what you think that decides if something is correct or not as you have a limited mind..

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and here i rest my case.. its not upto what you think that decides if something is correct or not as you have a limited mind..

I know but does that mean we should shut down our brains and not try to think and fathom things out?

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When Guru Angad was asked to eat a dead man he did'n think of anything but to obey his master.. for this he was honored... when Panj pyare were asked to give their heads, they did so without asking any question.

why would you want to question Gurbani?

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When Guru Angad was asked to eat a dead man he did'n think of anything but to obey his master.. for this he was honored... when Panj pyare were asked to give their heads, they did so without asking any question.

why would you want to question Gurbani?

No one is questioning bani but asking whether the person in the sakhi was Guru Gobind Singh.

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Did'n Guru Gobind Singh know that the pathans would betray him? Did'n Guru Gobind Singh know that Aurangzeb would'n follow his oath on the Quran? your argument is invalid my friend ..

your second argument starts with:

I personally feel that the other motivations

and here i rest my case.. its not upto what you think that decides if something is correct or not as you have a limited mind..

Now listen to me you bloody terrorist!

I already responded to that on msn :@

The scenarios you have presented are totaly different. Guru Gobind Singh DID know that Aurangzeb wouldn't keep his word. He did knwo he'd break the oath on the Qu'ran, and thus left the castle UNWILLINGLY - it wasn't before the Sikhs FORCED him to leave that he left.

Didn't he know the Pathans would betray him? He did have a back up of Pir Buddhu Shah's army; did he not?

When Guru Angad was asked to eat a dead man he did'nt think of anything but to obey his master.. for this he was honored... when Panj pyare were asked to give their heads, they did so without asking any question.

why would you want to question Gurbani?

Firstly the path of Guru Nanak encourages Sikhs to question EVERYTHING. EVERY single action a Sikh does - he should question himself - and everything he's told- he should question until he is convinced its right.

The first Sikhs did question Guru Ji - and Guru Ji obeyed by leaving the Anandpur fort. The Guru leaft the fort at Chamkaur when he was ORDERED (not REQUESTED) by Sikhs to do so.

You do have a point with Guru Angad Dev Ji - but at the same time this is a different case altogether since in this case we're simply analysing the sakhi - if this would be something our Guru would do; or write for that matter. Yes it's a personal interpretation - but you know it very well yourself that Guru Gobind Singh Ji is above all worldy things - so what does he have to fear?

Did the master of Kaal fear anything? :D

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It says in this sakhi:

"Magan stated that Raja had desired to know of some 'Mantra', and that he had arranged to show him, provided he followed him to the place he would take him to. (9)"

Why would Guru Gobind Singh Ji desire to know any other Mantra when he already has the greatest Gurmantar?

This part is my opinion: It meantions countless times that the Raja says all these people worship me. Did Guru Gobind Singh Ji really see himself as a saviour or did he think of himself as a slave/messenger of Vaheguru? If Guru Sahib saw himself as the being that everyone worships, then why would he himself take amrit from the panj pyaray?

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i thought it was a lovely sakhi, the himmat shown to resist the woman inspite of all temptations is inspirational.....................we are slaves to our desires whther they be sexual or otherwise..................i one thing i learned from this sakhi was Fear of God, he i ALWAYS watching...........we living in an illusion when we think night cloak will hide our wrongdoings............

Our problem............we think too much...............we try and be clever and think we can decipher pavitar bani when we dont have the kamai to back it up............

Very very interesting read

Thanks for sharing :D

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This question was esp to those who believe in the entire Dasam Granth to be the work of Guru Gobind Singh Ji, without actually having had read it themselves.

Seems like those who are the first ones to jump into hee Dasam Granth debates refuse to comment…

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Is there any other translation online of this story?

Are the stanzas before the ones discussed here, also use reference to Guru Gobind Singh jee? That might indicate whether This is about Guru jee.

From what I can understand I dont think this is about guru Gobind Singh jee. It is probably something that did not happen, but a story is being told to convey a message. Firstly I dont think Guru jee ever claimed he was a raja? Did Guru jee rule anywhere? If guru jee was a raja then it seems that the first Khalsa Raj came before Baba Banda Singh jee Bahadur.

If the raja was Guru Gobind Singh jee, the story would more likely to have been in Bachittar Natak. It also seems that the story is not written in first person. While in Bachittar Natak we see shabads that are... Dekhan ayoo Jagat Tamasha. And also: Kahayoo parbuu so phakh hoo.

I could not understand why the raja is talking and then it says guru jee is saying something (this was right at the end of the composition). Maybe that is an indication that the Raja and Guru jee are different people. Meybe Guru jee is talking in first person and the Raja is therefore depicted as someone else.

Another Indication that the raja was not Guru jee was when the raja puts on a religious garb.

These are the conclusions I have drawn from someones translations. The thing is your opinions can easily change depending on the translation. For example the translator feels sure the raja is guru Gobind Singh jee, so his translation of each line, will be prejudiced by this fact.

Your right veer V jee. The easy part is to argue with others that they are speaking kufar etc but when it comes to discussing the shabads, we find a lack of debate. Or the statement that we do not have the kamaee. Khoj and veechar (Being a Sikh) seems to be overshadowed by other words. (Sikhi Sikhia gur veechar). I feel that someone who did khoj like Prof Sahib Singh jee is needed with the dasam granth. Translations of the Dasam Granth lack any notion or concepts of grammar. They all like they copied each other and changed a few words around here and there, like the English Translations of the Guru Granth Sahib jee are.

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V, what's the problem with the Sakhi - Guru Ji wrote it to teach us something, they aren't talking about themselves. If you read the whole Bani you'lll understand......

If a Moorakh like me can understand the moral of the sakhi that Guru Ji wrote, then anyone can.

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lol sado's
THIS IS NOT THE PLACE TO DISCUSS DASAM GRANTH.

...

I personally find a few weaknesses, as to why I doubt it's real.

I doubt that the SAKHI is real. I'm not talking about the entire Dasam Granth. I didn’t want to get into the Dasam Granth discussion. I'm talking out the Sakhi in question.

For those who don't believe the Raja in the sakhi is Guru Gobind Singh -

At Anandpur, numerous Sikhs would come to pay a visit, and

would get their wishes fulfilled, and would return to their homes happily. (4)

Once a wife of rich man visited the town, and on seeing the Raja of the town, got extremely fascinated and charmed on seeing him.(5)

Who would this Raja of Anandpur be, whom Sikhs would come, pay a visit and get their wishes fulfilled?

From tale 23 –

In the following morning, all got up, and the Raja came to the Assemblage of his people (1)

The lady's passions had been cooled down; and only in her rage exhibited the shoes and the silk dress to the people. (2)

The GURU in his assemblage declared to his followers that his shoes and silk dress had been stolen. He also stated that if any of his Sikh, who would find out the thief, he would be liberated from the cycle of repeated births and deaths (3)

When the Sikhs heard the words uttered by the Guru, they revealed the secret of the lady to all the assemblage. (4)

TheRaja then commanded to bring the thief before him, and also his shoes and the silk dress. But the real thief should not be frightened in any way, to be brought in a respectful way. (6)

(When the lady was brought there) The Rajas asked her why she had taken his shoes and the silken dress. The one who commits theft, she should know how he is to be dealt with. He was excusing her excesses committed, being a lady; otherwise for such a crime the penalty was death. (7)

Notice how "Raja" and "Guru" is used synonymous?

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