Who Was Guru Nanak: Guru Or Lord

[besoft]

It appears that there is no answer for this. However, I shall be grateful if some of you can opine.

thx.

[Mehtab Singh]

Guru Arjan Dev Ji in Raag Gond on Ang 864

goNf mhlw 5 ]

go(n)add mehalaa 5 ||

Gond, Fifth Mehla:

guru myrI pUjw guru goibMdu ]

gur maeree poojaa gur gobi(n)dh ||

I worship and adore my Guru; the Guru is the Lord of the Universe.

guru myrw pwrbRhmu guru BgvMqu ]

gur maeraa paarabreham gur bhagava(n)th ||

My Guru is the Supreme Lord God; the Guru is the Lord God.

guru myrw dyau AlK AByau ]

gur maeraa dhaeo alakh abhaeo ||

My Guru is divine, invisible and mysterious.

srb pUj crn gur syau ]1]

sarab pooj charan gur saeo ||1||

I serve at the Guru's feet, which are worshipped by all. ||1||

gur ibnu Avru nwhI mY Qwau ]

gur bin avar naahee mai thhaao ||

Without the Guru, I have no other place at all.

Anidnu jpau gurU gur nwau ]1] rhwau ]

anadhin japo guroo gur naao ||1|| rehaao ||

Night and day, I chant the Name of Guru, Guru. ||1||Pause||

guru myrw igAwnu guru irdY iDAwnu ]

gur maeraa giaan gur ridhai dhhiaan ||

The Guru is my spiritual wisdom, the Guru is the meditation within my heart.

guru gopwlu purKu Bgvwnu ]

gur gopaal purakh bhagavaan ||

The Guru is the Lord of the World, the Primal Being, the Lord God.

gur kI srix rhau kr joir ]

gur kee saran reho kar jor ||

With my palms pressed together, I remain in the Guru's Sanctuary.

gurU ibnw mY nwhI horu ]2]

guroo binaa mai naahee hor ||2||

Without the Guru, I have no other at all. ||2||

guru boihQu qwry Bv pwir ]

gur bohithh thaarae bhav paar ||

The Guru is the boat to cross over the terrifying world-ocean.

gur syvw jm qy Cutkwir ]

gur saevaa jam thae shhuttakaar ||

Serving the Guru, one is released from the Messenger of Death.

AMDkwr mih gur mMqRü aujwrw ]

a(n)dhhakaar mehi gur ma(n)thra oujaaraa ||

In the darkness, the Guru's Mantra shines forth.

gur kY sMig sgl insqwrw ]3]

gur kai sa(n)g sagal nisathaaraa ||3||

With the Guru, all are saved. ||3||

guru pUrw pweIAY vfBwgI ]

gur pooraa paaeeai vaddabhaagee ||

The Perfect Guru is found, by great good fortune.

gur kI syvw dUKu n lwgI ]

gur kee saevaa dhookh n laagee ||

Serving the Guru, pain does not afflict anyone.

gur kw sbdu n mytY koie ]

gur kaa sabadh n maettai koe ||

No one can erase the Word of the Guru's Shabad.

guru nwnku nwnku hir soie ]4]7]9]

gur naanak naanak har soe ||4||7||9||

Nanak is the Guru; Nanak is the Lord Himself. ||4||7||9||

Guru Arjan Dev Ji in Raag Gond on Ang 864

goNf mhlw 5 ]

go(n)add mehalaa 5 ||

Gond, Fifth Mehla:

gurU gurU guru kir mn mor ]

guroo guroo gur kar man mor ||

Chant Guru, Guru, Guru, O my mind.

gurU ibnw mY nwhI hor ]

guroo binaa mai naahee hor ||

I have no other than the Guru.

gur kI tyk rhhu idnu rwiq ]

gur kee ttaek rehahu dhin raath ||

I lean upon the Support of the Guru, day and night.

jw kI koie n mytY dwiq ]1]

jaa kee koe n maettai dhaath ||1||

No one can decrease His bounty. ||1||

guru prmysru eyko jwxu ]

gur paramaesar eaeko jaan ||

Know that the Guru and the Transcendent Lord are One.

jo iqsu BwvY so prvwxu ]1] rhwau ]

jo this bhaavai so paravaan ||1|| rehaao ||

Whatever pleases Him is acceptable and approved. ||1||Pause||

gur crxI jw kw mnu lwgY ]

gur charanee jaa kaa man laagai ||

One whose mind is attached to the Guru's feet

dUKu drdu BRmu qw kw BwgY ]

dhookh dharadh bhram thaa kaa bhaagai ||

his pains, sufferings and doubts run away.

gur kI syvw pwey mwnu ]

gur kee saevaa paaeae maan ||

Serving the Guru, honor is obtained.

gur aUpir sdw kurbwnu ]2]

gur oopar sadhaa kurabaan ||2||

I am forever a sacrifice to the Guru. ||2||

gur kw drsnu dyiK inhwl ]

gur kaa dharasan dhaekh nihaal ||

Gazing upon the Blessed Vision of the Guru's Darshan, I am exalted.

gur ky syvk kI pUrn Gwl ]

gur kae saevak kee pooran ghaal ||

The work of the Guru's servant is perfect.

gur ky syvk kau duKu n ibAwpY ]

gur kae saevak ko dhukh n biaapai ||

Pain does not afflict the Guru's servant.

gur kw syvku dh idis jwpY ]3]

gur kaa saevak dheh dhis jaapai ||3||

The Guru's servant is famous in the ten directions. ||3||

gur kI mihmw kQnu n jwie ]

gur kee mehimaa kathhan n jaae ||

The Guru's glory cannot be described.

pwrbRhmu guru rihAw smwie ]

paarabreham gur rehiaa samaae ||

The Guru remains absorbed in the Supreme Lord God.

khu nwnk jw ky pUry Bwg ]

kahu naanak jaa kae poorae bhaag ||

Says Nanak, one who is blessed with perfect destiny

gur crxI qw kw mnu lwg ]4]6]8]

gur charanee thaa kaa man laag ||4||6||8||

- his mind is attached to the Guru's feet. ||4||6||8||

[kam1825]

You will find the answer in the Sawaiya Sri Mukh Bak Pahalla 5. Guru Nanak Dev Ji were Sangun Nirgun Nirankar. They wer both the transcendant and non transcndant aspects of the Lord.

At the same time they were the true spiritual master (Guru)

[V]

My knowledge on this is very limited in this field..

But how does this go in line with Guru Gobind Singh Ji saying that anyone who calls him "pareshwar" (Lord/paramatma) - Jo hum ko parmeshwar....Will burn in hell...?

Could you please shed some light on this

[jassa]

hum means himself ... whose ever calls himself god will burn in hell !!! as per budhadals veakheya of sri bachitar natak !!!

[V]

Doesn't really make sense..since that'd mean - those who call THEMSELVES - not call ME.

Hum in this context does gives me the impression he's talking about the writer of the bani - i.e those who call ME (the writer - i.e Guru Gobind Singh Ji)

Could be mistaken though

Thanks for informing me how Buddha Dal interprets it

[Mehtab Singh]

Even if Gurujee referred to Himself as "hum", it makes sense. He wanted us to worship Akal Purakh only, and was not like the previous avtars who made people worship themselves. Of course there is no difference between SatGuru and Akal Purakh, but worship is only for Akal Purakh. This is the reason we don't worship images/idols of the Gurus, although some say its ok to keep them as a token of remembrance alone. H2O is in the form of solid (ice), liquid (water), and gas (water vapor), but which one can you drink? Only water which is the liquid form. One can't drink the solid or the gaseous form, even though all 3 are the same in composition (H2O). Same way, Bani Guru Guru hai Bani, Gur Parmesar eko jaan, therefore Bani = Guru = Vaaheguroo, but we worship only Vaaheguroo.

Please correct any mistakes

[kam1825]

this topic has been discussed on sikhawareness in some depth before. One thing one needs to remember is in bani it states that

Har Harijan Doi Ik Hai Bib Bichar Kuch Nahi

There is no difference between the God willing devotee and God.

This is the case for the Gurus they were God as the raindrop and the ocean are of the same entity once they merge they cannot be seperated

[Matheen]

My knowledge on this is very limited in this field..

But how does this go in line with Guru Gobind Singh Ji saying that anyone who calls him "pareshwar" (Lord/paramatma) - Jo hum ko parmeshwar....Will burn in hell...?

Could you please shed some light on this

Nimrita. As Guru Sahib wrote in Sri Dasm Granth (particularly Chaubis Avtar and Bachitar Natak), all previous Avtars succumbed to haumai and had their followers worship them.

There was also a danger that people would get attached to that particular sareer and fall into a form of idol worship. It happens today as well, we call Guru Granth Sahib Ji our Guru, matha tek, prevent beadbi etc but can't be bothered to follow the teachings.

[The_Perfect_Student]

No difference. The Guru and God are truly one, yet the guru says to be lowest of the low, servant of his entire creation but this his nimrata. In reality, he is the highest of high. He is one with God. He lives under the hukam. Its just God in human body!