Sick Of It!

[dalsingh101]

All this talk makes me laugh. Like jat gurdwaras are any better. The reputation they have for the type of brawls that take place in a low class pub is funny. Plus the way they are quick to start knocking each others pugs off over any little disagreement in front of SGGS and are unable to resolve things through any civilised discussion is comical.

As they say in Panjabi:

Nooks kudhun tho pehlaan, upnee manjhee de thalay soti phero.

[rupinder singh]

1st of all, plz 4give me Sangat as i am talking out of anger here and obv anger is bad 4 an Amritdhaari.

Basically i went to one of my local Gurdware (rahmgaria Gurdwara) and i was reading the "rules and regualtions" of joining the comittee. At the top it said "must follow the teachings of the 10 Gurus" then under that it said "must b ramgaria by birth" and it is for that reason i was not accepted in the comittee, for i put "Khalsa" there instead of ramgaria!

hmm interesting, how does one prove their ancestory to Ramgharia misl?

Is there some kind of documentation. I could put being descended from Ramgharia misl, do you think they would let me join? lol

It’s a legitimate way of creating a sub-section of the community which is isolated on caste only. As Baba Jassa Singh Ramgharia was off tarkaan ancestory it’s seen as a legitimate (in panthic terms) way of labeling the caste.

The original Misldhar of Ramgharia Misl was Nand Singh and the name Ramgarhia was taken after winning a major battle near the village of Ramghar. Nand Singh Sanghania and its members were Sikhs from different tribes/castes and even under Baba Jassa Singh Ramgharia there would have been Sikhs of all backgrounds.

This can quite easily be mentioned to the exclusive committees of Ramgharia Gurdwaras in order to quash their constitution, but I don’t think the Singh Sabhas or Panthic Jathebhandis etc are really that bothered about this. Face it, in that generations eyes it’s a “jatt” world out there and anyone else who falls out of that birth pool is not worthy of being part of their Jathebhandi. So although it hurts the youth, I think the older generation are very comfortable with these set ups.

[Guru_Da_Chella]

All this talk makes me laugh. Like jat gurdwaras are any better. The reputation they have for the type of brawls that take place in a low class pub is funny. Plus the way they are quick to start knocking each others pugs off over any little disagreement in front of SGGS and are unable to resolve things through any civilised discussion is comical.

As they say in Panjabi:

Nooks kudhun tho pehlaan, upnee manjhee de thalay soti phero.

I am curious, what made yoou talk aboput jatt gurdwaras, is it because Ramgharia gurdwaras were mentioned, or are yu just giving an example?

[dalsingh101]

All this talk makes me laugh. Like jat gurdwaras are any better. The reputation they have for the type of brawls that take place in a low class pub is funny. Plus the way they are quick to start knocking each others pugs off over any little disagreement in front of SGGS and are unable to resolve things through any civilised discussion is comical.

As they say in Panjabi:

Nooks kudhun tho pehlaan, upnee manjhee de thalay soti phero.

I am curious, what made yoou talk aboput jatt gurdwaras, is it because Ramgharia gurdwaras were mentioned, or are yu just giving an example?

The point is that when you look at many Gurdwaray today, there are all sorts going on. This isn't limited to any jaat as such. What is funny is that people from jat backgrounds are very critical of other people's gurdwaray when their own have MAJOR issues themselves (as highlighted above).

To be honest I'm not surprised that people would want to distance themselves from the jatt version of Sikh politics, with its hot headedness and pointless violence over what essentially boils down to gurdwara funds. We've all seen footage of brawls in Singh Sabha gurdwaras. Hell, even the Akal Takhat jathedar recently had to comment on this behaviour in NY.

If the truth is spoken openly - we know that many if not most gurwaray are divided by caste, rightly or wrongly (personally I think it is wrong). These jaats never get on back home so is it really surprising that this is happening outside? I hear to this day, many pinds have separate gurdwaray for jatts and say churay/chumars. It is well known that many jatts dislike mixing out of caste and although they may not have it explicitly stated in the gurdwara constitutions, they will not accept outsiders into the group. That to me is the same as what the Ramgarhias are doing but a difference being the former group are doing it on the sly. So, to me, it comes as no surprise that people have opened their own gurdwaras.

Also with the Ramgarhia Gurdwara thing, personally I believe it is actually from Africa not Punjab. I heard originally Jatts had refused entry to Tarkhans to their gurdwara or were abusive to non jatts who visited - hence they opened their own up. I don't know how true this story is but it wouldn't surprise me to hear it was true based on the interaction between jatts and nonjatts I have seen over the years.

As one poster commented - these things should come as no surprise because most of our sianay want to keep the status quo as it is.

[wjkk wjkf]

The fact that you lot are still talking about Jatts and Ramgharias jeeps casteism alive. I know what you guys want is change but a few of you have made valid points about this issue even being amongst 'gursikhs'. It isn't going to stop unless we actively protest against it. I.e. on Vaisakhi and other major programmes, dont just hand out leaflets which arent read; stop a bunch of youngsters and talk through the issues. We forget that those of us on these forums are a TINY minority and get angry when others dont see what we see. Like JustME pehnji said...we gotta BE the change. I know its easier said than done but like you guys have said, we gotta start sometime, why not now?

[dalsingh101]

The fact that you lot are still talking about Jatts and Ramgharias jeeps casteism alive. I know what you guys want is change but a few of you have made valid points about this issue even being amongst 'gursikhs'. It isn't going to stop unless we actively protest against it. I.e. on Vaisakhi and other major programmes, dont just hand out leaflets which arent read; stop a bunch of youngsters and talk through the issues. We forget that those of us on these forums are a TINY minority and get angry when others dont see what we see. Like JustME pehnji said...we gotta BE the change. I know its easier said than done but like you guys have said, we gotta start sometime, why not now?

I think you're being naive. My point was that the majority of the panth seems happy to keep caste. How can you get rid of something that a large amount of people want to keep?

[Guroo Guroo Jaap]

Haha!!! Just wen u need it Guru Mahraj gives u the answers!!...

I met a couple of Singhs at a rainsbhaae the other day and i told them about it. They reminded me why i wear the Bana and what Sikhs stand for!! So im going to try and sort this out ram naal first, and see what happens!! Anyone who wants to help is more than welcome to!!

P.S I urgely suggest u guys do the same if u have a ramgaria Gurdwara near u!!

P.P.S on the "jatt Gurdware" yes all of that stuff is tru, i dont want it too sound like im only picking on ramgaria Gurdware. Its only coz they have it in the name and the whole committee rule thing. If there was a "jatt Singh Gurdwara" or something then i'd sort them out aswell! And im also working to sort out da Singh Sabha Gurdwara here aswell, its absolutely appauling!!

[dalsingh101]

Haha!!! Just wen u need it Guru Mahraj gives u the answers!!...

I met a couple of Singhs at a rainsbhaae the other day and i told them about it. They reminded me why i wear the Bana and what Sikhs stand for!! So im going to try and sort this out ram naal first, and see what happens!! Anyone who wants to help is more than welcome to!!

P.S I urgely suggest u guys do the same if u have a ramgaria Gurdwara near u!!

P.P.S on the "jatt Gurdware" yes all of that stuff is tru, i dont want it too sound like im only picking on ramgaria Gurdware. Its only coz they have it in the name and the whole committee rule thing. If there was a "jatt Singh Gurdwara" or something then i'd sort them out aswell! And im also working to sort out da Singh Sabha Gurdwara here aswell, its absolutely appauling!!

The two things are the same in my eyes (jat ramgarhia gurdwaray), the only difference is one has the rule explicitly stated in the constitution, the other has it as an unspoken rule. What is the difference?

Why target one when the other is as bad and practiced on a larger scale? Personally I thin both need to be sorted out. Can these groups handle criticism? I doubt it.

[Guroo Guroo Jaap]

I was just searching this site and found this other thread

http://www.sikhsangat.com/index.php?showto...irpan&st=12

its great to know someone else feels the same way!!

ok this is what i propose we do

i think a group of Sikhs should get together and start some sort of group that go around Gurdware around england trying to sort them out and tell them what they are doing wrong. Anyone up for it?? (btw i am 10000% serious)

[wjkk wjkf]

The fact that you lot are still talking about Jatts and Ramgharias jeeps casteism alive. I know what you guys want is change but a few of you have made valid points about this issue even being amongst 'gursikhs'. It isn't going to stop unless we actively protest against it. I.e. on Vaisakhi and other major programmes, dont just hand out leaflets which arent read; stop a bunch of youngsters and talk through the issues. We forget that those of us on these forums are a TINY minority and get angry when others dont see what we see. Like JustME pehnji said...we gotta BE the change. I know its easier said than done but like you guys have said, we gotta start sometime, why not now?

I think you're being naive. My point was that the majority of the panth seems happy to keep caste. How can you get rid of something that a large amount of people want to keep?

hey, you gotta start somewhere...If Guru Nanak Dev Ji thought that way where would we be now?...like talking about it is making any difference?