Panjabradio Entertains Anti Dasam Granth Person.

[Inder Singh]

Veer S1ngh, since when do Janamsakhis make up a "strong foundation" of Sikhi. I thought that strong foundation was Gurbani

Veeray, I'm not saying sakhis aren't important, Gurbani itself tells us the extreme importance of sakhis, but they should always be taken in the context of Gurbani. I'm not really sure how the sakhi of Baba Deep Singh Ji (and the extreme power of his ardaas and prem) is relevant into this discussion

Khalsaland, although the SRM clearly forbids the parkash or another "pustak" paralell, I sugges tyou updates yourself with the mattas. Jathedar recently issued a hukamnama specifically forbidding parkash of DG.

Inder Singh, you have yet to provide evidence of Akal Takhat parkashing DG in 1942, esp considering Akal Takhat sending sanes about not allowing parkash of DG as early as 1934

Anyway, I'm out of here. Most people don't seem to care about what Akal Takhat has to say anyway, no matter how much they use Akal Takhat Gurmattas to suit their needs

Sikh panth has two granths Guru Granth and Dasam Granth.Make no mistake about it.

What makes foundation of sikhi?Does atheism make foundation of sikhi.That is what kala afghana and other touts of GOI are saying.

[khalsaland]

Khalsaland, although the SRM clearly forbids the parkash or another "pustak" paralell, I sugges tyou updates yourself with the mattas. Jathedar recently issued a hukamnama specifically forbidding parkash of DG.

You are obviously wrong in your observation....i have with me the exact wordings of the latest resolution...nowhere it mentions that the parkash of Sri Dasam Granth cant be done...What it says is that parkash of ''hor kise granth'' (another granth) cant be done ''barrabar'' (parallel/at par) to Sri Guru Granth Sahib.

[ghorandhar]

Veer S1ngh jee, what did I write which goes against the Akal takhat? I dont understand what your issues are, If ive written anything against the guru panth khalsa I ask for muafee, if not then you have some serious issues with the panth. The cult which you refer to is called Akal Takhat. Veer jee Baba Deep Singh has nothing to do with this discussion, the point is do you believe in the supremacy of the Akal Takhat? firstly I do read the dasam granth and secondaly I do kirtan from the dasam granth in different raags and bandishs (which Im willing to share with you) however, I follow the guru panth khalsa and the decision not to do any other parkash with Guru granth Sahib jee, this decision is not the creation of mine or Gurbax Singhs mind, it is a decision made by the Akal Takhat.

Veer Inder Singh as normal you dont understand what other people have written. No one is saying Guru Gobind Singh jee did not recite 5 bania in the amrit sanchar. The only thing im saying (and Gurbax Singh jee said) is that the rehitnama do not record this. End of the day the Guru panth Khalsa concluded that 5 were read (at the Amrit sanchar over 300 years ago) and I stongly agree with this.

Damdami Taksal have no record of their rehit maryada, its only recently been published. Its been edited and we dont know who edited the Taksal Rehit maryada and how did they have the authority to edit something which is claimed to be given by guru Gobind Singh jee. (what would you call that? maybe kuffar?) Do the Taksal have the right to edit and change what Guru Gobind Singh jee gave them? or Did Guru Gobind Singh tell the Taksal that in 250 years time you guys will be driving cars, so add that into the maryada.

Veer jee what you say has no value, you just contradict yourself. One the one hand you say Darshan Singh has violated the Akal Takhats decision by discussing the dasam granth, on the other hand you attack the panthic Sikh rehit maryada (passed by the AKal takhat) and decisions made by the Akal takhat on parkash of other granths with the Guru Granth Sahib jee. Why did you not ring the radio programme and ask Gurbax Singh himself if hes read the Dasam granth rather than asking Veer V jee to ask him questions? Personaly I dont need to ask questions, the Akal takhat has made a decision, therefore those who attack the Dasam granth need to stop and people who keep doing parkash of Dasam granth with the Guru Granth need to stop. The fact that idols were also present harmander Sahib complex, would this fact make you conclude its correct? Just because something was done before 1942 is no evidence, if it was evidence then why dont we bring the idols back? You are just making irrelvant points esp when the guru panth Khalsa has made a decision.

Inder Singh jee, some people claim there are 3 granths (not 2 as you claim) :lol: , this is the same people who you keep saying have the oldest maryada.

Veer Khalsaland, Inder Singh jee and S1ngh jee, Why did you just not ring in the radio and present your views?

Veer Khalsaland jee, Kala Afghana has nothing to do with this discussion, he is banned from the Sikh panth and people like Gulshan unlike yourselves 100% follow the panthic decisions and not pick and choose. Veer jee the Dasam granth does not need to be parkash to do khata, just as Bhai gurdas jees vara, Bhai nand Laal jees writings and Kavi Santokh Singh jees Sooraj Parkash is not parkash. How comes we still have khata of the above even though they are not parkash? Veer jee its not Gulshan who is starting this debate, he is simply following the directives of the Akal Takhat.

[Guru_Da_Chella]

Ghorandhar wrote

<<<<<Veer jee there is no rehitnama which says 5 bania and I have not come across any ithassic granth which gives the 5 bania, they all have different numbes with different bania. This does not mean its not 5 bania and neither does the writer say this. Veer jee could you scan Guru kian sakhiya and also tell us the author and publication as I have done with the book in question. Could you also do this with your 18th century documents. Ive not come across this. Thanks. The fact that he says 5 bania were decided after veechar and this is a panthic fainsla is something which you conviently miss out.>>>>

Response

Panj banis were decided by Sahib Guru Gobind singh ji in 1699.Read Guru kia sakhian by Bhai sarup singh Kaushish.It gives vivid details of the event.If you have not read that better keep quiet and noy create your own blasphemous fables.

Sikhism did not have discontinuity in its traditions.So traditions transferred from generation to generation since Guru ji's times.Crook Gulshan knows nothing about philosophical part of sikhism.He is a duki tikki who neither have read philosophy of sikh religion and nor has kamai of naam simran.Can he prove that so and so was his great grandfather.

It seems like the Damdmai Taksal, Nihangs and the IHRO and various people in the Punjab must all be dumb.

Case closed like i said.

Unfortunately you will have to do your own research: Guru Kian Sakhian written late 18th Century.

18th Century Dasam Granth manuscipts which i have inspected myself.

Convenient is it not? So you have no poof for the sources that you have written. I also suggest you email and ring Gurbax Singh with your evidence, but atleast give him more than you are giving me.

The Damdami Taksal and Nihangs dont follow the rehit maryada, your own sources (Taksal) attacks JAchak for saying women were allowed in the panj piyari, it seems they have also not read the rehit maryada. Not very reliable are they, these jhatas who dont even follow the panth.

Ghorandhar

Oldest rehat maryada of sikh panth is of Damdami taksal.This taksal was there when Baba Deep singh was there.

Ghorandhar wrote

<<<<What he says about the rehras is correct. Please read the Guru granth Sahib jee and you will come to the same conclusion. This has been concluded in the panthic sikh rehit maryada which he clearly says it is correct: Rather he says on page 64 at the bottom of the second paragaraph that neither the SGPC, any jhata or person has a right to change the maryada (either shorter or claiming its longer). Read the last sentence of that paragraph...

Response

What he says has no value.He is not pope of sikhism.He is an ordinary person with below average inteliigence.

It as older than even rehit of Buddha Dal?

[khalsaland]

Veer Khalsaland jee, Kala Afghana has nothing to do with this discussion, he is banned from the Sikh panth and people like Gulshan unlike yourselves 100% follow the panthic decisions and not pick and choose.

If Gulshan had respected Akal Takhat directives, he woudlnt have uttered that the so called controversy of Sri Dasam Granth is there since its inception...This is utter nonsense and false. How did he forget the latest Akal Takhat directive which says that Sri Dasam Granth is an "inseparable part" ('annikharvaan ang') of Sikhi and its controversy is "unwanted" (belora vivad). This sentence alone is a slap on the face of Darshan Ragi, and the cult of Kala Afghana who want to keep this useless controversy alive.

If according to Akal Takhat Sri Dasam Granth is an INSEPARABLE PART and its controversy is UNWANTED, then when Gulshan says that the "controversy" has to be addressed after the the gurgaddi celebrations are over, then he is clearly defying Akal Takhat's directives.

If Gulshan had respected the Akal Takhat directives then he should also have known that Akal Takhat had excommunicated Bhag Singh, Kala Afghana, Joginder Spokesman for branding Sri Dasam Granth controversial. This is the panthic stand on Sri Dasam Granth.

Sri Dasam Granth is an inseparable part and is non controversial. Anyone who does not believe in this is anti-panthic, and anti-Akal Takhat.

[ghorandhar]

Veer Khalsaland jee, Kala Afghana has nothing to do with this discussion, he is banned from the Sikh panth and people like Gulshan unlike yourselves 100% follow the panthic decisions and not pick and choose.

If Gulshan had respected Akal Takhat directives, he woudlnt have uttered that the so called controversy of Sri Dasam Granth is there since its inception...This is utter nonsense and false. How did he forget the latest Akal Takhat directive which says that Sri Dasam Granth is an "inseparable part" ('annikharvaan ang') of Sikhi and its controversy is "unwanted" (belora vivad). This sentence alone is a slap on the face of Darshan Ragi, and the cult of Kala Afghana who want to keep this useless controversy alive.

If according to Akal Takhat Sri Dasam Granth is an INSEPARABLE PART and its controversy is UNWANTED, then when Gulshan says that the "controversy" has to be addressed after the the gurgaddi celebrations are over, then he is clearly defying Akal Takhat's directives.

If Gulshan had respected the Akal Takhat directives then he should also have known that Akal Takhat had excommunicated Bhag Singh, Kala Afghana, Joginder Spokesman for branding Sri Dasam Granth controversial. This is the panthic stand on Sri Dasam Granth.

Sri Dasam Granth is an inseparable part and is non controversial. Anyone who does not believe in this is anti-panthic, and anti-Akal Takhat.

Historically there has been controversy, you cant re write history. However he then goes onto say and makes it clear that this vahad vihvaad and arguing needs to stop. Gurbax Singh then clearly says: hath jor ki bhenti karada Prof Darshan Singh nuu to stop what hes doing.

I like the way you are trying to edit what Gurbax Singh jee said (but its not going to work). He said rather than people calling each other to discuss here and there and challenging each other, all this should stop, we should wait until the gurgaddi celebrations are over and then a panthic smallen should take place rather than individual groups calling on each other. I cant see anything wrong with this opinion. I think its correct for a panthic smallen rather than the panth being split into 4 or 5 groups and just challening each other which makes us look daft. Everyone must be laughing at Sikhs, every day we are arguing and challening each other, first it was jhatas and individuals challenging each other, now its the jathedhars challenging each other. We need to stop all this.

The same people who are arguing the dasam granth can be parkash with the Guru Granth Sahib are then supporting other parts of the Akal Takhat hukamnama, dont worry you are half way there.

Veer jee you should have rang in and presented your views. Alternatively you can ring Gurbax Singh or write him a letter, all you are doing is presenting your veechar. Let me know what you want to do and ill give you the details. YOu are not challening anyone, all im suggesting is that you feel stongly about this person, so you should present your veecahra with him.

[khalsaland]

Veer Khalsaland jee, Kala Afghana has nothing to do with this discussion, he is banned from the Sikh panth and people like Gulshan unlike yourselves 100% follow the panthic decisions and not pick and choose.

If Gulshan had respected Akal Takhat directives, he woudlnt have uttered that the so called controversy of Sri Dasam Granth is there since its inception...This is utter nonsense and false. How did he forget the latest Akal Takhat directive which says that Sri Dasam Granth is an "inseparable part" ('annikharvaan ang') of Sikhi and its controversy is "unwanted" (belora vivad). This sentence alone is a slap on the face of Darshan Ragi, and the cult of Kala Afghana who want to keep this useless controversy alive.

If according to Akal Takhat Sri Dasam Granth is an INSEPARABLE PART and its controversy is UNWANTED, then when Gulshan says that the "controversy" has to be addressed after the the gurgaddi celebrations are over, then he is clearly defying Akal Takhat's directives.

If Gulshan had respected the Akal Takhat directives then he should also have known that Akal Takhat had excommunicated Bhag Singh, Kala Afghana, Joginder Spokesman for branding Sri Dasam Granth controversial. This is the panthic stand on Sri Dasam Granth.

Sri Dasam Granth is an inseparable part and is non controversial. Anyone who does not believe in this is anti-panthic, and anti-Akal Takhat.

Historically there has been controversy, you cant re write history. However he then goes onto say and makes it clear that this vahad vihvaad and arguing needs to stop. Gurbax Singh then clearly says: hath jor ki bhenti karada Prof Darshan Singh nuu to stop what hes doing.

I like the way you are trying to edit what Gurbax Singh jee said (but its not going to work). He said rather than people calling each other to discuss here and there and challenging each other, all this should stop, we should wait until the gurgaddi celebrations are over and then a panthic smallen should take place rather than individual groups calling on each other. I cant see anything wrong with this opinion. I think its correct for a panthic smallen rather than the panth being split into 4 or 5 groups.

The same people who are arguing the dasam granth can be parkash with the Guru Granth Sahib are then supporting other parts of the Akal Takhat hukamnama, dont worry you are half way there.

Veer jee you should have rang in and presented your views. Alternatively you can ring Gurbax Singh or write him a letter. Let me know veer jee if you require the details.

Which ''history'' are you talking about when Sri Dasam Granth was controversial like it is now...Give me a single reference (in the form of writing/book) before 1970s when Sri Dasam Granth's authenticity was ever debated...Arya Samaji Bhag Mal Ambala's book was the first to start this non-issue.

I doubt you understood my point regarding 'parkash'. Please read my posts again.

I have heard Gulshan and I have quoted him in verbatim...

Read my previous post again regarding so called controversy of Sri Dasam Granth...In simple terms, Akal Takhat says there is no controversy...If Gulshan says there is and it needs to be addressed, he is defying Akal Takhat.

Coming back to the origin of the post, the organisations that had objected to Gulshan's appointment as the Granthi of Darbar Sahib where not wrong after all.

[khalistan_zindabaad]

anyway just to add more flavour the sandesh is incorrect due to not having all 5 singh sahibaans there... jathedar of sri hazoor sahib wasnt present nor was jathedar or patna sahib. ... it seems the badal clan want to make ammendments to everything themselfs and put it on the patnh, well im afraid the majority of the patnh wont follow it as its the governemnt badal clan is making this happen, the jathedars dont do the work of jathedaars so why should we respect them as being jathedaars, i remember a speech of sant jarnail singh where he states he has eveidence that the jathedaars of thakht sahibs all lied.

[Inder Singh]

Ghorandhar

Please do not beat about the bush.Give us a reference where it is written that Dasam Granth was controversial among sikhs except when Bhag ambala an arya samaji of Hindu religion who later became a sikh wrote derogatory about Dasam Granth.

Read malcolm's sketch of sikhs,Wilkinson's visit to patna sahib,Ibartnama of a persian writer that writes when ranjit singh went war two granths were going with his camp.

[AK-47]

Very simple question ...

Are those who are crying that there should not be parkash of dasam granth sahib ji actually going to do anything about it?

Its a fact that there is parkash of dasam granth sahib ji done at damdami taksal metha, next to and parallel to that of guru granth sahib ji. From my understanding guru sahib ji sits on the left side (as we look at maharajh) and dasam granth sahib ji is on the right. Will the SGPC action force or whatever they are called go there and stop this from happening?

Keep in mind that this parkash has been there from day one, from when the gurdwara sahib was first built by sant kartar singh ji. Now on one hand we all praise sant jarnail singh ji as being the one person who stood up for guru granth sahib jis satkar when maharajh was being attacked from all over, and yet now we accuse him of doing beadbi by having dasam granth sahib ji parkash as well!!

anyway will the action group sort this out? will they also go to other places and sort them out as well? or is it just another excuse to have the sikhs fighting each other ... i wonder who gains from that hey! cough cough badal and co ... cough cough