Conversation With A Christian

[Bijla Singh]

The following is the brief version of the conversation I recently had with a Christian fellow and his companion (female). I was at the mall with my wife when suddenly they approached us and after asking few personal questions they got right to their point and discussion took its course. I thought it might help some fellow Sikhs on this forum. It was a healthy discussion and was done in a respectful manner exchanging laughs and joking around. I hope some find it useful.

Christian: Do you guys believe in Jesus?

I: No, we do not believe in any middle man to be the savior.

Christian: So what do you guys believe in?

I: We believe in One God who is all-loving, all-knowing and without hatred but we do not believe we need a middle-man to take us to God. We can directly worship and reach God. We all originate from the same Source (God) and therefore do not believe in sin of Adam and Eve?

Christian (surprisingly): Not believe in sin? Then why are we here?

I: It is will of God. Our presence on earth is not result of anyone’s sin but God’s will.

Christian: What do you consider a sin?

I: Immoral activities such as premarital sex, and consumption of meat, tobacco etc. We value life and hence, do not advocate killing animals for the sake of eating or tasting. Tell me, does Jesus love me even though I don’t believe in him?

Christian: Yes, he does because you are a religious man and worship God.

I: Good. Would he love if I was to become an atheist?

Christian: Yes, he loves all. He is the son of God.

I: We believe all are children of God and we all are created by Him.

Christian: We have many similar beliefs but what we are missing is Jesus. He is the savior and can save us from the sin of Adam and Eve.

I: We do not believe Jesus is the savior because we do not believe in any sin. Why should I be punished for someone else’s crime? I did not exist when Adam ate the apple and had no control over any of the events then why should God punish me? Isn’t that injustice? For us, God judges everyone based on their deeds. For example, if you kill someone the law will not punish your son or someone else. They will come after you. I will not be responsible for your misdeeds. This is the only just way of delivering justice.

Christian (after thinking it over): Well, it is not the sin that is keeping us away from God. What Adam and Eve did happened and is not affecting us but what happened was that their one mistake resulted in humans acquiring knowledge and becoming corrupt. Earth became impure and so did humans so God kicked us out. Only God is the purest of pure and going to Jesus one becomes pure and then saved.

I: I agree God is pure but if earth became impure then what would you say about Mars and other planets? God’s creation is perfect. He put balance in everything. If there was no bad then no one would value good. He gave us knowledge to distinguish good from bad and realize the true path. Salvation is not easy. Life is a struggle and so is reaching God but it comes with knowledge of the true path. We do not believe human race started from Adam and Eve. If eating apple got them kicked out then what would you say about people on earth eating the same fruit?

Christian: It wasn’t the apple. It was the fruit of knowledge which made them aware of good and bad.

I: Then isn’t it the same knowledge you used to realize that Jesus is your savior? If they knew what good was then they could’ve asked for forgiveness right then unless you believe that they only knew bad and Jesus brought goodness?

Christian: Hmmm…What do you believe separates us from God?

I: Greed, lust, anger, egotism and emotional attachment to something that is temporary. Attachment only to God is the right way because He will hold your arm in this world and hereafter. Your spouse and children will leave you after your death but God will not. We are taught to be responsible and fulfill our family needs but attachment should only be with God.

Christian: Well, the reason I think Jesus is the savior is because I used to do drugs and indulge in bad habits which I forsake after getting to know Jesus. I was wondering how to make sure that I was saved but then I talked to other Christians and told them about the visions of angels I had and according to them that was the sign that I was saved.

I: You will find people in every religion who have had visions. Many Sikhs have had visions of prophets including Jesus and Mohammad and other holy saints but this is not the end of it. All prophets were sent by God so I can equally have visions of Jesus and angels because I meditate upon the same God. Having visions is far below salvation. We believe Naam or meditation is the only savior which purifies our soul. God’s light resides within all of us and when the light merges with the Source Light (God) will we achieve salvation. Visions and miraculous powers are only tip of the iceberg and part of it. We do not believe in Jesus because he took birth and died. Someone who himself is in the cycle of birth and death cannot save me. God Himself can save us and we worship Him only.

Christian: Jesus is different. Jesus did not die. He woke up three days later and lived for forty days. Then he went and prophesized that he will be back. Many Christians have had vision of Jesus and they could clearly see body and flesh.

I: But he did die a physical death. We believe death does not exist because soul lives for eternity and never dies. But physical death does exist in which this body perishes. I hardly doubt Jesus appears as a human to people. He may use human body as a vessel so people could see him but I do not think he will bleed if someone was to shoot him. Right?

Christian: I agree. I never thought of it like that. You are right. He did die a physical death. But he said he will be back after he came back alive.

I: Let me ask you. Are you sin free?

Christian: Yes. I can sin but right now I am without any sin because Jesus has saved me and I will go to heaven.

I: Who created heaven and hell?

Christian: God did.

I: And where is God?

Christian: He is in heaven.

I: If God created heaven and He is in heaven now then where was he before he created heaven?

Christian: That’s an interesting question. I do not know. I never thought about it before.

I: You may say we both believe in One God but the God we believe in is not as same as Christian God. You believe Satan is in hell and God in heaven but for us God is everywhere and he created heavens and hells as temporary places. Everyone does good and bad deeds in their lives. For good deeds they go to heaven and for bad they go to hell. Then the cycle of life and death continues. Salvation comes only when one becomes as pure as God and light within us merges with God’s light. If I end up in hell then how can God save me? He must be in hell in order to save me otherwise I will always be in hell. Further, how can God send me to a place he has no control over? If I do bad deeds and follow satan then hell should be like a party place to me and satan should be my friend. Why would satan punish me for following him? This is why we do not believe in Adam and Eve story. We believe God created everything and He is everywhere. By saying God is not in hell you are putting limits on him. He is everywhere including hell. This is how people in hell get saved. He alone controls everything.

Christian: Well, coming of Jesus was prophesized by God in the beginning of the creation and God said to Adam that he will send a savior. It is written in Bible, the word of God.

I: Jesus came and died. His death cannot serve the purpose of achieving salvation. He died 2000 years ago whereas I was born only 25 years ago. So how could he have died for me when I did not exist? If he died for our sins then his death would’ve erased all of the sins on this earth and I would’ve been free already. If I still have to submit to him, follow Bible and do my part then clearly his death is not saving me. It is the message that saves. This is another reason why we follow the principles delivered by God to us. Message is the savior not a human body.

We follow our religious scripture which we believe is the word of God. It was penned down by the founders of religion and finalized by them. We have many copies from that time in their original form bearing the signature of approval. Also, the script the message is written in was finalized by the founder. We have the same message that was delivered. We believe only Guru or True Guru is the savior because prophets or messengers deliver the message and work for God whereas Guru is God himself and God speaks in the Guru.

Christian: We believe Jesus is God too.

I: But you said he is son of God just like I am and that makes him my elder brother not God. God and his son are two different beings. God does not take birth or die.

Christian: So do you guys pray? Because we want to pray for you and you will see the power of Christ.

I: Yes we pray to God. We are taught to pray as a way of thanking him for giving us what we have. He has given us everything for free and instead of asking for more and more we thank him for what we have. He will always give us more because he is the giver but only when we deserve it.

Christian: Yes, true.

Then I quickly got up and said, “I gotta go now”. He stopped talking and said, “Well, whenever you have time please come to our church. We sign God’s praises and eat and have fun.” I said, “Sure, I will see when I have time.”

The conversation lasted about 1.5 hours but I left out many chunks to keep it short. He thanked me for learning something new and then we went our own ways.

[Laadli Fauj]

awesome read

[Singh, Mahan]

Bijla Singh Ji,

Did this conversation take place in India? ( Though, it doesn't read like that it took place in India.)

[Bijla Singh]

I live in California where the conversation took place. I have had numerous debates/discussions with Christians from different sects but this one happened yesterday so I thought I would post it.

[SunSingh]

very good.

[Singhballer]

Good Post!

[S1ngh]

Good Read... !!!

[Singhstah]

Dhan Sikhi

Gurmat philosophy is sabh to oochee vahegurroooo

vaheguroo bless all