Sikhi Naal Mazaak (images Included)

[mann_kaum_layee_qurbaan]

Can the conflict between Sikhs and Nirankaris and Sacha Sauda wallas be comapared to differences between Catholicism and Protestants/Orthodox Christianity.

there are some Christian sects like Seventh Day Adventists, Mormons who more closely match Sauda like sects.

there isn't a comparison really. the Nirankaris have a human guru, and as you can see this defies the fundamental belief of sikhi, that guru granth sahib ji is the spiritual guru of the sikhs only and the human form of the guru is the khalsa panth, or the khalsa. guru gobind singh set the foundation for guru granth and guru panth.

Sikhs have no issues with different groups, its when they insist on using Guru granth sahib to legitimize their human gurus and anti-sikh beliefs. that's when trouble arises.

the best analogy i can give is if a christian "sect" has a leader who says i am the next in line after jesus, follow me. the bible is not your guide, i am.

peace.

[republicofkhalistan]

All I know is that there are many Dera's in Pakistan like Dera Baba Adam, Dera Ghazi Khan, Dera AdamKhel ..

CORRECTION: There is no Dera Adam Khel, its DARRA/DARA Adam Khel, world's largest illegal gunmarket.

[Raju]

No it can't

Kindly elaborate your thoughts in this matter .. why you think so ?

...

Sarpanch I am waiting to hear your take on this.

[SaRpAnCh]

Sabh Sikhon Ko Hukam Hai GuruManioGranth .

[Raju]

Sarpanch jee, you always avoid going deeply into Sikhi.

I don't want you to copy, paste some quote from somewhere as a result.

I want your interpretation in your own words as to why you think it is different.

It is surprising that your knowledge of Sikhi often comes across as being on the feeble side as compared to your knowledge of 'other things'.

[SaRpAnCh]

Don't teach me Sikhism ,i told you sab sikhon ko hukam hai gurumaniogranth what part don't you get?It's simple,there cannot be a living Guru,nor a sect,as after 1708 Guru Granth Sahib Ji took Leadership of the Qoum.

You can't compare Christian denominations to Sacha Sauda Radhaswamis Namdharis and so on,as these stupid cults REJECT Sikhism's core principals, there can be NO human Guru only Guru Granth Sahib JI,

Christian denominations do not reject core principals of Christianity ie: Jesus ,Holy Trinity and so on,so how can you compare our situation to theres.

[JHUJAARROO]

ਸਚੁ ਜਿ ਗੁਰਿ ਫੁਰਮਾਇਆ, ਕਿਉ ਏਦੂ ਬੋਲਹੁ ਹਟੀਐ॥ ਪੁਤ੍ਰੀ ਕਉਲੁ ਨ ਪਾਲਿਓ, ਕਰਿ ਪੀਰਹੁ ਕੰਨ੍ਹ੍ਹ ਮੁਰਟੀਐ॥ ਦਿਲਿ ਖੋਟੈ ਆਕੀ ਫਿਰਨਿ੍ਹ੍ਹ, ਬੰਨਿ੍ਹ੍ਹ ਭਾਰੁ ਉਚਾਇਨਿ੍ਹ੍ਹ ਛਟੀਐ॥ {ਪੰਨਾ ੯੬੭}

ਅਰਥ : — ਗੁਰੂ ਨਾਨਕ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਜੀ ਨੇ ਜੋ ਵੀ ਹੁਕਮ ਕੀਤਾ, ਗੁਰੂ ਅੰਗਦ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਜੀ ਨੇ ਉਸ ਨੂੰ ਸੱਚ ਕਰਕੇ ਮੰਨਿਆ, ਅਤੇ ਆਪ ਨੇ ਉਸ ਦੇ ਮੰਨਣ ਤੋਂ ਕਦੇ ਨਾਂਹ ਨਹੀਂ ਕੀਤੀ। ਸਤਿਗੁਰੂ ਜੀ ਦੇ ਪੁਤ੍ਰਾਂ ਨੇ ਬਚਨ ਨਾ ਮੰਨਿਆ, ਉਹ ਗੁਰੂ ਵਲ ਪਿੱਠ ਦੇ ਕੇ ਸਦਾ ਹੁਕਮ ਹੀ ਮੋੜਦੇ ਰਹੇ। ਅਜਿਹੇ ਲੋਕ ਜੋ ਖੋਟੇ ਦਿਲਾਂ ਵਾਲੇ ਹੋਣ ਕਾਰਨ ਗੁਰੂ ਵੱਲੋਂ ਆਕੀ ਹੋਏ ਫਿਰਦੇ ਹਨ ਅਤੇ ਦੁਨੀਆ ਦੇ ਧੰਧਿਆਂ ਦੀ ਛੱਟ ਦਾ ਭਾਰ ਬੰਨ੍ਹ ਕੇ ਚੁੱਕੀ ਰੱਖਦੇ ਹਨ।

ਗੁਰਬਾਣੀ ਦੇ ਮੁੱਢਲੇ ਵਿਆਖਿਆਕਾਰ ਤੇ ਗੁਰਮਤਿ ਦੇ ਪ੍ਰਮੁੱਖ ਪ੍ਰਚਾਰਕ ਭਾਈ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਭਾਈ ਗੁਰਦਾਸ ਜੀ ਉਪਰੋਕਤ ਗੁਰਵਾਕ ਦੀ ਵਿਆਖਿਆ ਇਉਂ ਕੀਤੀ ਹੈ:

ਫਿਰਿ ਬਾਬਾ ਆਇਆ ਕਰਤਾਰਪੁਰਿ, ਭੇਖੁ ਉਦਾਸੀ ਸਗਲ ਉਤਾਰਾ॥ ਪਹਿਰਿ ਸੰਸਾਰੀ ਕਪੜੇ, ਮੰਜੀ ਬੈਠਿ ਕੀਆ ਅਵਤਾਰਾ॥ ਉਲਟੀ ਗੰਗ ਵਹਾਈਓਨਿ, ਗੁਰ ਅੰਗਦੁ ਸਿਰਿ ਉਪਰਿ ਧਾਰਾ॥ ਪੁਤਰੀ ਕਉਲੁ ਨ ਪਾਲਿਆ, ਮਨਿ ਖੋਟੇ ਆਕੀ ਨਸਿਆਰਾ॥ ੩੮॥ ੧॥

ਭਾਈ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਭਾਈ ਵੀਰ ਸਿੰਘ ਜੀ ਇਸ ਪਉੜੀ ਦੇ ਅਰਥ ਇਉਂ ਕੀਤੇ ਹਨ:

ਫੇਰ ਬਾਬਾ ਜੀ (ਗੁਰੂ ਨਾਨਕ ਸਾਹਿਬ) ਨੇ ਕਰਤਾਰ ਪੁਰ ਚਰਣ ਪਾਏ ਤੇ ਸਾਰਾ ਉਦਾਸੀ ਭੇਖ (ਸਰੀਰੋਂ) ਲਾਹ ਦਿੱਤਾ।

ਸੰਸਾਰੀ ਕਪੜੇ ਪਹਿਰ ਲੀਤੇ, ਮੰਜੀ (ਗੱਦੀ) ਉਪਰ ਬੈਠ ਕੇ ਅਵਤਾਰ (ਬਿਰਾਜਨਾ) ਕੀਤਾ। ਭਾਵ, ਲੋਕਾਂ ਦਾ ਪਾਰ ਉਤਾਰਾ ਕੀਤਾ।

ਗੰਗਾ ਉਲਟੀ ਚਲਾ ਦਿੱਤੀ, ਅੰਗਦ ਨੂੰ ਸਿਰ ਪੁਰ (ਗੁਰੂ ਕਰਕੇ) ਧਾਰਿਆ (ਭਾਵ ਥਾਪਿਆ)। (ਕਿਉਂ ਜੋ) ਪੁਤ੍ਰਾਂ ਨੇ ਬਚਨ ਨੂੰ ਨਾ ਮੰਨਿਆਂ, ਖੋਟੇ ਮਨ, ਆਕੀ ਤੇ ਨਸਣ ਵਾਲੇ ਹੋ ਗਏ।

[Raju]

Christian denominations do not reject core principals of Christianity ie: Jesus ,Holy Trinity and so on,so how can you compare our situation to theres.

this is incorrect. One of the major criticism's of Seventh Day Adventists are that they badmouth Christ.

It has been alleged by the Christian Research Institute that traditional Adventism teaches that Christ had a sinful nature (Christian Research Journal, Summer 1988, p. 13).

[apne]

Mr. Raju many have replied to your question but it seems that you want a more practical answer. Ok. Here it is.

Dera Sacha Sauda is a intelligence agencies sponsored enterprise as are many others. Their prime job is to influence and ensure that people do not think of revolution but stay in and believe in peace and non-violence. This way their mind is not able to be revolutionised by thoughts freedom movement against the govt. If you look at the present condition of Indian society, widespread poverty, exlpoitation of masses, no redressal of grievences, no food security, no scope of justice, mass scale human rights abuses, rampant corruption. etc. etc. you will be amazed that there is no reaction from public. The reason is these govt sponsered deras. They help in keeping the minds of people away from common movement and their energy is directed to useless direction. People go to these deras for getting hope in face of their many problems.

The reason these deras are strong in Punjab also helps in keeping population support for khalistan in check.

[Raju]

Yesterday I was wondering that apart from Seventh Day Adventists I was forgetting one more such group. But couldn't recollect it's name. It is today while going through some material that I was reminded of another group of scoundrels. They go by the name of Jehovah's Witness. And they dispute the trinity.

For instance

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jehovah's_Witnesses

Possibly the most controversial doctrinal differences relate to the nature of God and of Jesus, particularly the Jehovah's Witnesses' rejection of the Trinity. In contrast with Trinitarian doctrine, they believe that Jesus was not God in a human body, but rather that he was God's firstborn (created) Son created before all other creation. The beliefs of Jehovah's Witnesses about hell, the immortality of the soul, the return of Jesus to the earth, and salvation are also controversial.