How Should Be Interrupt Pathans Glorying Ahmed Shah Abdali?

[Raju]

Because her elimination facilitated the entry of these two.

Liberalisation of Indian economy under ManMohan Singh in 90s meant that these two and their numerous fronts entered India.

Read Manmohan's history here. read second and third para.

http://mjakbarblog.blogspot.com/2007/02/pr...ers-rattle.html

Holding patterns of Indian companies explained by flo-chart. Look how it is dominated by two big players who have intered India post-liberalisation.

The main Consultants for Merger Liberalization and

Privatization in India

Five Main Consulting Groups that ‘help’ liberalization

And road map for mergers consolidations

MNC Indian Counter Part

1.Accenture = Ambit Corporate

2.BOB Capital Markets Earnst Young =IDBI Bank

3.Rothschild and Sons = ICICI Bank

4.JM Morgan Stanley = Amarchand Mangaldas

5.Price Water Coopers =SBI Capital Funds

1 2 5 are controlled by 4 which is controlled by 2.

[Surban]

So if they say .. hello Mrs. Gandhi this is the situation on the ground .. it's volatile .. so and so is hell bent on defying you .. he wants to humiliate you .. he is already in touch with a neighbouring country "P" .. and that neighbouring country "P" is already in touch with a superpower "U" and apparently "U" has rushed advisors to "P" to infiltrate field agents into the troubled Indian state.

Madam, .. we have also come to know from sources .. that the neighbouring country "P" is supplying heavy weapons and they are being stacked in places of worship of community "S".

Once they gather enough ammunition and stock up on weapons .. it is "P"s plan to engineer an event and create such severe law & order problems that they will use that pretext to declare their support to Independent state. Superpower "U" is also waiting in "P" it's ally to infiltrate agents who are highly trained in aiding and organising civil insurgency.

Madam .. please suggest what should we do now ??

what is a lone paranoid woman supposed to do then ?

Raju can u plz tell me who "so and so" is?

and

"what is a lone paranoid woman supposed to do then ?"

..im sry r u messed in the head?... LONE PARANOID WOMEN?... shes the PM of an entire Country... she aint alone, she aint paranoid.. she knew exactly what she was doing.. u dont think that some one of her power cud check these facts.. u dont think someone of her power status could try to talk to the Sikhs before launching an attk on our holist shrine.. and 40 other gurdwara's at the sameee time!!.. im sry i wasnt aware that Sant ji had 40 kids that held up that many other gurdwara's at the same time.. dont make her sound like the victum here.. i adivice u to choose ur words carefully next time

[Muzumdar]

Raju

Your last post proves my point.

You say that economic liberalisation took place ten years after Indira's death. Ten years. If she hadn't been assassinated, she would probably have died before then anyway.

Also, as for Dr Manmohan Singh, I don't need to read dodgy blog links about him. This is what we know: he was called into government service at random by an old acquaintance because of his spotless track record and huge brain. His appointment was not the brainchild of the West. And in any case, he was the architect of economic reform, not the implementer.

You can post as many fancy graphs as you wish, but they do not prove that Western agents plotted to have Indira killed.

I also note that you have gone silent on the 'Indira was a leftist hero' front. That at least is progress on your part.

[Raju]

Raju

Your last post proves my point.

You say that economic liberalisation took place ten years after Indira's death. Ten years. If she hadn't been assassinated, she would probably have died before then anyway.

Also, as for Dr Manmohan Singh, I don't need to read dodgy blog links about him. This is what we know: he was called into government service at random by an old acquaintance because of his spotless track record and huge brain. His appointment was not the brainchild of the West. And in any case, he was the architect of economic reform, not the implementer.

You can post as many fancy graphs as you wish, but they do not prove that Western agents plotted to have Indira killed.

I also note that you have gone silent on the 'Indira was a leftist hero' front. That at least is progress on your part.

Mazumdar, MJ Akbar's blog is not dodgy by any stretch. You will know this if you have lived in India for any period of time.

He was considered extremely close to Gandhi family.

He was also until recently the Editor of Asian Age, a very popular English newspaper in India. It is an inflight newspaper in domestic airlines.

Manmohan Singh's entire liberalisation package was crafted in World Bank and IMF office and he was an ex-employee of WB.

The accusation against Manmohan Singh was made by Dr. Ashok Mitra, Chief Economic Advisor to the Govt of India.

MJ Akbar just commented on it.

[Raju]

..im sry r u messed in the head?... LONE PARANOID WOMEN?... shes the PM of an entire Country... she aint alone, she aint paranoid.. she knew exactly what she was doing.. u dont think that some one of her power cud check these facts.. u dont think someone of her power status could try to talk to the Sikhs before launching an attk on our holist shrine.. and 40 other gurdwara's at the sameee time!!.. im sry i wasnt aware that Sant ji had 40 kids that held up that many other gurdwara's at the same time.. dont make her sound like the victum here.. i adivice u to choose ur words carefully next time

haven't you heard the phrase "the higher you go the lonelier you get" ?

She never trusted anyone except probably her sons. And that is not a good situation to be in.

But it is par for the course for politicians, if you read up on Nixon then Kissinger who was his personal advisor helped a highly influential lobby shaft Nixon in the back. So even your closes advisor can not be trusted esp if you are at the top of the pyramid.

And one last request is to keep the discussion civil and don't issue threats or warnings to me if you want to keep this discussion alive. If you are civil then I am civil.

no offence

[Muzumdar]

Mazumdar, MJ Akbar's blog is not dodgy by any stretch. You will know this if you have lived in India for any period of time.

MJ Akbar is so pro-India it's embarrassing. His book 'India, The Siege Within' is quite possibly one of the worst pieces of non-fiction I have ever read. He relies on cheap clichés and cheesy one-liners. His credibility as an impartial observer on anything is zero.

He was considered extremely close to Gandhi family.

Exactly. He would be the first one to espouse anti-Western conspiracy theories, just as his political masters - the Congress - would like him to.

He was also until recently the Editor of Asian Age, a very popular English newspaper in India. It is an inflight newspaper in domestic airlines.

Mouthpieces of the government tend to find their way on to national airline carriers, you would know this if you had some perspective.

Manmohan Singh's entire liberalisation package was crafted in World Bank and IMF office and he was an ex-employee of WB.

You are insinuating that Dr Manmohan Singh was and is just a pawn in the West’s great game to control the Indian economy. I don’t think he is that thick, just a hunch.

[Raju]

He was considered extremely close to Gandhi family.

Exactly. He would be the first one to espouse anti-Western conspiracy theories, just as his political masters - the Congress - would like him to.

Arre baba, he didn't espouse any anti-Western theories. This fact about Manmohan Singh was espoused by Dr. Ashok Mitra in his book 'the Prattler's rattle' or something. Dr. Ashok Mitra alleged that India was forced to appoint Shri Manmohan Singh as FM during PV Narasimha Rao's regime due to pressure from World Bank (MMS was an employee of WB at that time).

Seconly MJ Akbar has been very consistent in opposing the Indo-US nuclear deal and as a result just two months ago, Sonia G weighed upon the owners of Asian Age/Deccan Herald to chuck him out of its editorship.

Asian Age had two writers in Seema Mustafa and MJ Akbar who were constantly writing in anti-establishment and anti-Congress articles.

[Surban]

haven't you heard the phrase "the higher you go the lonelier you get" ?

She never trusted anyone except probably her sons. And that is not a good situation to be in.

But it is par for the course for politicians, if you read up on Nixon then Kissinger who was his personal advisor helped a highly influential lobby shaft Nixon in the back. So even your closes advisor can not be trusted esp if you are at the top of the pyramid.

And one last request is to keep the discussion civil and don't issue threats or warnings to me if you want to keep this discussion alive. If you are civil then I am civil.

no offence

Raju im not makn ny threats i was simply implying that dont make Indria out to be the victim here.. she had all the power of india in the palm of her hand, yet she cracked under pressure tht easily? She choose her ownnn safety rather than the safety of an entire religion/culure?.. thts preety shallow. I awlays though PMs were spoussed to do good for the ppl no matter wht the price, not worry about there own fears. Look how the sikhs saved all of india from the mugal rule, u think we were thinking about our selves when we did it?.. no we stepped up to save one of the worlds biggest religions without fear of wht wud happen to us and wht did happen to us. and no i have never heard tht saying.. who was it quoted by? and dont tell me sum wise old man, unless he had control of an entire country like Indra, and valued his own life above the lives of hundreds of thousands of ppl.

i think the quote ur looking for here is "Power corrupts; absolute power corrupts absolutely" She only became a by-product of her own greed and didnt care who she had to step on to get were she wanted to go, in this case the sikhs were the ones she stepped over. its funny u said tht "P" was the one storing the weapons and such so without even a second though she went out to eliminate "S".. huh i dont get it y didnt she just atk the source to stop it ryte there? was it because it was easier for her to wipe us off the planent and make us seem like the terrorists without ny cold hard facts.. then to atk another country and still make the rest of her country feel saffer by saying we have eliminated terrorist and en entire religion/culture while we were at it, now Hindu's r the majority in India.

[40 Immortals]

"Except that was a instance of hindus killing hindus (something you say never happens in Hindu India)."

i haven't said that. in fact, what i have said is that a sikh is guilty until proven innocent, and a hindu is innocent until proven guilty. Hindus killing hindus is qute common, have you seen all the dalits killed by upper caste hindus?

you keep harping on the conspiracy theory of the west, yet the indian constitution says sikhs are hindus, is that a western conspiracy as well?

chatanga makes very good points. also, we can go back all the way to guru nanak ji. he single handedly shook the brahmin machinery. They tried to kill him back then. The sikh ethos and psyche has always been a thorn in teh side of brahminism, because it shakes the core of their imaginary hold over indian society.

indians like to put forward this imaginary love affair between guru sahib and brahmins, when the fact is that it was a major issue. since the inception of sikhi, brahmin thought has felt threatened. this manifested itself in physical attacks on guru sahib as well as trying to falsify sikh belief through propaganda and what not(writing fake granths etc).

and you want a conspiracy theory. a minority brahman group is controlling basically every facet of indian life. how?

you need to read sikh history from the begining to realize what is going on and where sikh opinions are coming from. it wasn't all sikhs vs. mughals. it was many many times sikhs vs brahmin thought and armies.

out of all the battles guru sahib fought, majority were against the hindu hill rajas. not trying to downplay the treachery of the mughals, but just want to remind indian patriots that their forefathers weren't guru lovers either.

peace.

When you talk about the battles that these "Sikh" Warriors fought. You talk about them with the highest respect. The 5th Sri Guru Ji of our beatiful faith talked about these immortals in the Sri Sukhmani Sahib. Called them immortals, creators, they are close to no one. Everyone knows sikhs as very brave and fearless warriors. But just how brave were the ones who showed the power of Gurbani to the entire world? Can we sikhs show bravery like the so called spartans? lol. The 21 sikhs vs 10 000 afghans was an example of bravery. But really that example does not even come close to the examples that the Akalis showed when they brought down mongols, turks, and hindu hill rajas, and rajputs. There was a famous ruler in the middle east, that came from the mongols. Ghazans family. He attacked a sikh army with his troops to ambush them and show the world that the muslims were the real immortals, not the Akali Jis. lol. Lets just say after the battle he brought his son to bow to Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji infront of all the Akali Jis. Theres pictures of it in the Gurdwara. Was their ever a warrior like Shaheed Baba Deep Singh Ji, who carried a massive 160lb kirpan or sword. He carried a massive shield. Was there ever a warrior who walked with his head on his palm. People talk about how great the greeks, or mongols were. Yes they were great, but greek historians were known for their ability to exagerate battles. The greeks said the 300 movie was based on 300 spartans vs 10 million perisans, and the spartans killed half their army, and they ran at them. As strong as the spartans were, that was not the case. No one fought like the Akali Jis mentioned in Gurbani. The greatest act of bravery and power in a single battle was shown by Khalsa Panth. When 40 Bhram Gianis stood face to face with 1 million mongols. NOTE MUGHALS ARE MONGOLS. BUBBAR was the great Khans grandson. Now these 40 immortals killed sooo many mughals and rajputs that their 7ft massive swords stopped cutting through flesh. Have you ever in your life heard of a battle with just 5 warriors fighting off against an army as large as 1 million. That was the battle that two of Sri Guru Gobind Singh Jis childern atttainted Shaheedi. It took 1 lakh (100 000) mughal imperial soldiers to bring down just 1 of the Bhram Gianis. Guru Jis eye witness account is in the Dhasam Granth i tihnk. "Even the strongest of men looked as if they had lost their mental balance". Even the strongest of the warriors fled infront of the Akalis. By the end of the battle nearly half the mughal army was killed, at least 1/10th of the so called "Great" Aurzengabs army fled in battle. Now does not that show the truth of real warriors. Any one strong can be a warrior, it takes a lot more then strength to be a real warrior. The Akalis lived and spent all their time with Sri Guru Ji. They traveled day in and day out, winter, summer anything, they had no food, they had to eat leaves at times. Tell me if you have ever heard of warriors spanning 8ft tall? Warriors that fought with their head on thier palm? Warriors that never robbed an old lady, or shot an arrow at a cowards back. They defined a brand new style of warfare. Back then everyone used arrows, or threw javalions. lol. It doesnt take long to understand that the Akalis were truly Bhram Gianis. If you go to the Gurdwara ask any Santh there about the strength of Sri Guru Gobind Singh Jis army. Theres two famous doctors who wrote soo many books on the sikh war history, from the 6th Sri Guru Ji of sikhism that fought the mongols, and the turkish tribes to Maharaja Ranjit Singh Ji. The hindu hill rajas gave into Baba Banda Singh Bhadhur before he was executed. They paid taxes. Remeber how the hindu rajputs used their massive elephants in battle, and defeated the Great Alexander. Well they tried that against Sri Guru Gobind Singh Jis army, but it doesnt work on God, or immortals. They fought elepahnts one on one. The hindus use to give beer to the elephants to boost their strength so they could attack Sri Guru Jis village, lol, there is a story of how one sikh put a sword or javalion through the middle of the elephants eyes. Anyways the reason I write this to my fellow sikhs is because, we need to be proud of our heritage, what Guru Ji taught us. There are so many great armies in history, the muslims, Timiriuds, mongols, turks, greeks, and so on. But we rarely see stories of such bravery and power like the ones that Sri Guru Gobind Singh Jis army showed. We live in western societies, and we our more infleunced by western culture, then our own at times. Anyways theres a lot of stories of sikh history. The Akalis said their master is the one who conquers death. They fought battles 4000 vs 30 000, 15 000 vs 155 000, and so on. One last thing when we talk about the battles of the warriors of Khalsa, and even before Khalsa was made......when the 6th Sri Guru Ji of our beatiful faith was attacking and bringing down the anceint mongols from Babbur and them. Anyways Sat Sri Akal.

[SaRpAnCh]

Ever since Guru Nanak Dev Ji reject the Jinoo the Brahmin elite have decided to destory Sikhism or the least contorl it's destiny through all means,people go on about the Western govt.s illuminati and so on and how they control the populations through various means the new world order and so on.

That is nothing compared to the brahmin elite which has controlled South Asia/India for thousands of years,you lot may know the symbolism of the pyramid in western theories, well the real pyramid is within India itself.The brahmin elite are at the very top who have control over everything underneath them.the army - warriors,businessmen,and so on,they profit from everything,ie : war, through domination ,they make minorities fight and encourage it eg: Sikh - Muslims, they will pump up both groups and provide resources weapons through which they profit,not only do they profit but they achieve their goal of ruling over both groups while they fight each other.They are behind the scenes all the time a mere 5% or so of them control what goes on across India , the education system is flawed for a reason to dumb down the population , so they will not ask for their rights,entertainment = bollywood the nation keeps in tuned with that but does not realise who are the real masters,the media tell them what is what the news tell them Sikhs are terrorists,Muslims are terrorists,any group asking for freedom are terrorists.Pyscologically they are controlling the very destiny of the Sikh nation through the spread of false literature slowly promoting hindu ideas within Sikhi,causing infights and promoting Deras so that whenever the Sikh rises they have a reason to attack and crush them by saying they are terrorists, by saying they are terrorists they can detain them for as long as they like ,the majority would support this as they feel 'safe' from Sikh terrorists,attacks are staged to scare the majority into thinking that it is ok for Sikhs to be taken in and to be called terrorists,this was used widely in the 80's the mass killing by the Indian Agencies of Hindus so ,the govt had a reason to crackdown on innocent Sikhs,society has been brought to its knees in Panjab,by the brahmin elite who control what everyone reads ,sees,and even speaks.

From the time of Guru Nanak till now - 5th Guru became Shaheed due to the brahim banker chandu (bankers, have a huge hand in the brahmin elite),who lied to the moguls that SGGSJ had verses agianst Islam.

Pandits came to the 9th Guru for help Sikhs being those who belive in equal rights helped,Shaheedi was given in return they attacked Guru Gobind Singh Ji in every major battle he fought behind it the main logistical support was provided by the Hindu Hill Raja's all brahmins,all these wars were instigated by the hill raja's in an effort to kill off the Panth.Gangu brahmin an ancestor of Indira Gandhi, gave in the Gurus sons the Sahibzadeh,when a Muslim priest said do not kill the children he intervened and said they are snakes and the sons of snakes,- one hand they used us to save their nation - 9th guru, on the other hand they want to finish us off, a bit like Western Govt's do to various regimes.#

Ranjit Singhs kingdom fell due to the Hindu Dogra;'s ,on one side they had meetings with the british,and on the other claimed to support the Sikh War agianst the Invasion,they profited hugely from the war more than they would have dreamed of,a pay off from the British and the war loot in the end,They made the Kings after ranjeet singh fight one another to destablize power in the Panjab ,like Govt's do to one another these days.

1947 they let the panjab be partiioned why ? Due to the fact that the main two groups were Sikhs and Muslims, it would not effect the brahmin elite if they kiled on another off.They would profit from future wars, the war's which the dumbed down Sikh population of Panjab would fight .After that Sikhs all of a sudden were declared a criminal race, and crackdowns ordered as they knew Sikhs would begin to ask for their rights,as they cracked down they knew that Sikhs would rise in self defence and thus black laws were made for detention and so on,grain/food prices are and were set by the Central govt so that the common farmer common folk do not rise above where they should be according to the brahmin elite,on top taxes were made higher then loans were given which in turn add intrest on to the accounts which the farmers cannot pay,leading to more loans and spirlling debt,self decalred gurus were suported and are supported like the Nirankaris ,as they know that they have to detach the Sikhs from Sikhism to remian in ultimate power ,by smearing the lines between Sikhi and cults they have aimed to attract the common man to these deras, in an effort to drag them away from the Sikh values which expose the 'Indian illuminati'.Attacks were staged before Operation Bluestar ie: explosions on trains,so called terrorists attacks,which they then used to try and justify the attack on Akal Thakt and the crackdown on Sikhs,blacklaws were used detention without trail and so on.The Govt building contractors were given the task of rebuilding Akal Thakt and other destroyed shrines across the Panjab ,from which the Companies would agian profit from ,while at the same time trying to make sure that they dumb down Sikhs and show they 'care',when really they have only done that so Sikhs continue to follow them like the rest of the population,now that the threat from Amritsar the revolution Bhindranwale was gone, they had nothing to worry about,and thought Sikhs would continue to serve them.When the movement in the West got too big for Khalistan and human rights,thousands were picked up in Panjab and vanished,bounties were put on the heads of Sikhs to lure informers,generals were given pay rises as Sikh Generals were caught,defence companies were given contracts to make more weapons for the Indian Army,which they in turn sold to hindu militant groups who would stage attacks while posing a Sikhs.The ultimate plan came in 1985 - Air India, as hijacking/Planes and these kinds of things were popular and a real act of terrorism in the west,India bombed it's own airliner,firstly to destroy the Sikh Movement across the World which was the only source left for support,second to defame Sikhs across the world as terrorists so the whole world would go against them,and to make sure they had no support,false news reports were broadcast in India and other countries calling Sikhs terrorists,the word Sikh - Terrorist were always used together,Videos of Bluestar -false Propaganda videos were released also so that the Western so called educated Sikhs would see a so called justification of the attack ,if the Western Sikhs stopped supporting the movement there would be no threat and the very few who did in Panjab and the West would be isolated as terrorists and extresmists giving Govt's the reason to crackdown ,detain and even kill them.

Sikhs in India are costantly told that they are hindus everywhere,from TV,to the Cinema, Sikhs are Hindus,Sikhs are Hindus,Sikhs are Hindus, this is drummed in to the heads of Sikhs from the shcool age,they grow up and end up in the same situation that people have been in for thousands of years,under the elite brahmin authority ,it is unseen but it is there a small perecentage of these powerful shadowy figrues control a population of over a billion in South Asia.They have made it in to the very in roads of Sikh Political and Relgious authority which is a toothless tiger,any Sikh who goes above the line or speaks out is automatically a terrorist and extremsit so therefore in the public eye it is justified for their own so called'safety' that this Sikhs is detained his himan rights taken away and so on.While the majority of the Sikh population keep serving their masters,fighting the wars,paying the taxes,get more loads to pay off debts,get in to more debt and so on.Throughout history the elite anywhere in the World have loved to control natural resources - therefore the Brahmins have transfered Panjabs river water to other states, govt contratcors are given contracts to make channels and so on the profit rolls in,the farmers life gets harder he looks for alternatives, and uses chemicals little does he know hes making things worse for himself,chemicals cost money and he is already in debt he takes another loan and pays that off as well as tax the little crop he makes is sold at a rate the Govt want he comes back home and is back to square one.Indira Gandhis ancestors were the Kashmiri Pandits,and Hill Raja's they were the pandits which decided on the day that Guru Nanak rejected the jinoo that Sikhism would have to be controlled through whatever way possible and eventually eradicated,history shows this,Indira's relative Gangu shows this,the Hill rajas show this,the dogras show this,Hindutva shows this.

Buddhism was uprooted by this eilte brahim class,who control everything,jains are very rarely found,the Dalits have been made sub serveint ,and this has been happening for thousands of years even before Sikhi that pyramid - lineage of Brahmins have been in control for countless ages,now we Sikhs are their next target - have we realised it ,I think not,- for it was only in 1984 that this plan came into the open Sikhs woke up ,the majority of which were wiped out ,question is have we woken up?Do you know the truth? Forget the Western Govts controlling you the real illuminati has been there for thousands of years,Guru Nanak Dev Ji realised it and told us - to free ourselves from it are we listening.

MKLQ mentions that Sikhs are Hindus in the constitution, - this i what the UN had to say about Sikhs - Right to self determination.

-

Sikhs in India are termed as Hindus,under the constitution,as Sikhs are Hindus,- Hindus already have thier own nation,no Hindu is demanding Freedom or the Right to self determination.How can Sikhs demand Self Determination when they are Hindus - who are fine in Inda.

You see how clever the plan of the brahmin elite is,they had already clubbed us in with Hindus,as they knew we would raise our head.In terms of law it makes perfect sense Sikhs are Hindus, Hindus do not want Freedom so what are Sikhs on about when they are Hindus.

We don;t exist in India ,we only exist as Hindus,otherwise we are not there non existant,

Iv'e written this up quickly so if MKLQ who is eduated in matters like this would like to expand I think he should and others like him,who know of the Brahmin Elite' the real illuminati' .

When Will We Wake Up?