Sant

[Inder Singh]

Veer Inder Singh jee ive already given you referance about Sant Attar Singh jee. I never Said Sant Attar Singh jee was a leading member of Singh Sabha Lahore, neither have I read this anywhere, I was referrring to Sant Attar Singh jee before 1902 being apart of the Singh Sabha Reform. (this is what Ive read) You constantly claim I have said things by adding words into my sentences. Ragarding the dasam granth, the reason I raised this point along with that whole list was because I felt it was unfair for you to claim that the Singh Sabha was involved in mundane affairs. Veer jee regarding the dasam granth I was also referring to the work of The Gurmat Granth Parchark Sabha Amritsar, the report was published in 1897. If you are going to continue tu tu maih maih and add words into my sentences im not going to bother to reply.

Veer Hardeep_Singh jee, you are right. Its good to do veechara, but what happens is that we get gharam and really worked up, before you know it we are calling other people a 'liar' and 'if you are a Sikh' etc. The veechar becomes really negative and rather than doing something Good for your Sikhi, it wrecks your Sikhi.

Singh_1983 jee, alot of people have not formed opinions of Maan Singh over the internet. When I met him through family friends who were close to him, I didnt bow to him or give him money, I Said Fateh with folded hands to Maan Singh. The man flipped and wanted to leave the house. So this is my experience with him. My family and friends who were close to him and they all stay away from him, most of his close people have also left him because everything about him is true. Veer jee if you say we risk our jeevan by saying such things, then we risk our jeevan every morning when we read Swaiyaa: Soor Surardan Shudh Sudhak Sant Samoo anik mati ki, Sari hi desh ko dekh rahoo mat, kaoo na dekiat pran pati ki.

Please provide reference here for sant ji being a member of Dingh sabha lahore.

Gurmat sudhar committe had no connection with singh sbaha.It was a ocal committe of Amritsat singhs.

[Bijla Singh]

In past few days I took some time to study the panktees quoted and asked some Gursikhs about viyakaran rules and proper aarth. What I have learned is here:

1. Word “Sant” can be used for a Gursikh and it is not against Gurmat.

2. Wherever “Sant” is praised it only refers to Guru Sahib. For example, Sant upma in Sukhmani Sahib is about Guru Raamdas Ji.

3. Human is not praised as a Sant. Using the word “Sant” with someone’s name and praising them are two different things.

4. Sant in plural form is also used for Guru Sahib in Gurbani at some places. Context changes the meanings and the form the word is written in.

ਸੰਤਕਾਮਾਰਗੁਧਰਮਕੀਪਉੜੀਕੋਵਡਭਾਗੀਪਾਏ ॥

In the above panktee, “Sant” is plural and is used for Sangat. The meanings are “Marag of Sants is climbing the ladder of Dharam (truth) and someone rare has the chance of walking this path”.

ਸੰਤਾਂ ਦਾ ਰਸਤਾ ਧਰਮ (ਸੱਚ) ਦੀ ਪਉੜੀ ਚੜ੍ਹਨਾ ਹੈ ਅਤੇ ਕੋਈ ਵਿਰਲਾ ਹੀ ਇਹ ਰਸਤਾ ਪਾ ਸਕਦਾ ਹੈ ।

ਸੰਤਪ੍ਰਹਲਾਦਕੀਪੈਜਜਿਨਿਰਾਖੀਹਰਨਾਖਸੁਨਖਬਿਦਰਿਓ ॥3॥

In this panktee, “Sant” is called Bhagat Prehlaad Ji and “Sant” means sevak of Waheguru or Bhagat of Waheguru. Bhagat Prehlaad is not praised as a Sant. Calling Bhagat Prehlaad Ji a Sant is not against Gurmat and it is different than praising him.

ਕਿਆਅਪਰਾਧੁਸੰਤਹੈਕੀਨ੍ਾ ॥ ਬਾਂਧਿਪੋਟਕੁੰਚਰਕਉਦੀਨ੍ਾ ॥

This panktee was a little struggle to understand. Bhagat Ji is narrating his story and explaining the chain of events that occurred. He says how he was chained and thrown in front of an elephant. The panktee actually pertains to people asking each other about Bhagat Ji that “What crime has this saint committed that he is being punished like this”? These meanings fit better with the context. It is not possible that Bhagat Ji who is so humble and considered himself daas would do his own sifat or praise himself. Although he was a true Sant, a Gurmukh, and a true sant always remains humble. A true saint doesn’t call himself a sant. If we accept that meanings that Bhagat Ji is referring to himself as a Sant then it would mean that Bhagat Ji is complaining and asking Waheguru for his crime but such is not a nature of true Bhagat like Kabir Ji. Bhagat Ji accepted everything as will of Waheguru and complaining or even asking such a question goes against the nature of a true Bhagat. When Guru Sahib and Gursikhs became shaheeds no one asked for their crime or complained to Waheguru. The panktee is clear that people are asking the question and calling Bhagat Kabir Ji “a Sant”.

Guru Sahib created one Panth in which everyone is Sant-Sipahi and all are “Bhai Bhai”. Everyone is at different avastha and it makes no sense to have different name titles to designate one’s avastha. Giani Ji, Granthi Ji etc are job titles and do not pertain to any avastha. Sant is clearly an avastha or characteristics. It doesn’t have anything to do with type of clothes we wear or dera we live in or dholkees and chimtay we play. A true Sant remains humble and never lets anyone bow to him. They care very much about Sikhi and do not let others bow to them intentionally. They tell others not to engage in such behavior. Baba Kharak Singh Ji used to keep a thick stick with him to stop people from coming near him to take a bow. Sant Jarnail Singh Ji would change his path to avoid such people but letting people bow and not say anything is not a character of a Sant. Then how would we distinguish between a Sant and a pakhandee who lets people bow to him in the presence of Guru Sahib?

I have written enough. There is no end to Gurbani and more we study and do vechaar on it more we learn. I posted what I learned and believe is correct. I am sure in the future I will learn more and Guru Sahib will bless me with bibek buddhi to understand Gurbani correctly and more clearly so that I keep walking on the path of Gurmat. Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

[N30S1NGH]

Here is baba jagjit singh ji take on topic on sants:

http://www.gurmarag.net/SikhAwareness/Audi...0on%20sants.mp3

[khalistan_zindabaad]

But the listening to the following katha different arth are done bijla singh ...

http://www.gurmatveechar.org/audio/katha/0...ts.in.Sikhi.mp3

http://www.gurmatveechar.org/audio/katha/0...am.Ki.Pauri.mp3

[NaamTiharoJoJape]

On 7/14/2008 at 8:15 AM, waaheguroo said:

Oh so the SGPC is evil for them - typical sanatan thinking :lol:

True sikhs only read and trust in your guru - sri guru granth sahib jee.

These sant samaj groups have also slandered each other in their books?

I know this forum is super old but sant hari singh kaharpuri and sant gurbachan singh ji bhindranwale and other folks in sant samaj did NOT throw mud at each other in books

on the contrary, jain wale, harkowal wale, and bhindranwale would often get together whenever they would be in the same area (north hoshiarpur, dasuya area) as per my own grandmother's witness

do not confuse sant samaj of nanaksar, mastuana, etc. with today's dhadri/dhumma/joni baba division