Key Discussion

[Jaggaa]

:6 soz daaz did nt reed quote from SJSB B4 postin, & woz talkin bout those sp called sants that hav said deez sorts o tings then ended up in bed with some women or men or somthin , soz if any1 felt offended....havn sed dat, y did no one stand up for the khalsa panth whilst it was being ridiculed an t8kn aprat?

i sre it saz in rehat maryada dat any1 of the positions in Panj Pyareh can B by a woman.

R U lot Santhic or Panthic? :gg:

:rolleyes: turn ma bakk on the khalsaa panth...imagine how much badmness adt muss B!

plus wher did theez kwotez kum 4m? R they reelly reel? Dnt t8ke offence @ thiz trY 2 C wher iz comin 4m.. Opn ur mndz a bit

:6 >.< is that some sort of slang or wat?

[sherlsurj]

WJKK WJKF

I think the general concensus is that women cannot be a part of the Panj Pyaare due the traditional view. When Guru Gobind Sing Ji asked for 5 heads no women stepped forward and so it makes sense that only men can do this sewa. In repect to all other sewa's women can do anything a man can do.

Also as an aside the Panj Pyaare due to rehat are required to only wear a bana without any pyjama so it wouldnt really be practicle for a Bibi to do the sewa.

Bhul Chuf Maaf.

WJKK WJKF

thats crap. no kid step forward to guru gobind singh ji. does that mean kids cant do it. no black person stepped forward. no white sikh etc. they were 5 great humans that stepped 4ward. it cudve been anyone. if its not women ud say where the kids represenation. i know of some women who are just as strong as men physically and mentally. sum of teh best marines in the us army are women. mainly coz they have a steady hand but they are physically as tough as teh guys. now if u wanna say 2 a woman u cant do this u cant do that - panj pyaareh di seva 4 eg. then ur living in the past b4 guru nanak dev jis times. equality people!!!!

[khalistan_zindabaad]

Do it, but the roop wont be of maharaj jee and the kaallaaah wont happen.

[Aparadhee]

see we dont really no that, kala could be same or even greater. that would depend on avastha of panj. ask those who have taken amrit where bibi has been in panj, only they know the kala of the amrit on the day.

khalsa mero roop hai khas = khalsa irrespective of gender.

just wanted to clear that up.

bhul chuk maaf

[AK-47]

edited - cant be bothered to argue

[tarunjeet singh]

The Panth has already agreed on this topic so pointless discussing again and again

[Only five]

WJKK WJKF

I think the general concensus is that women cannot be a part of the Panj Pyaare due the traditional view. When Guru Gobind Sing Ji asked for 5 heads no women stepped forward and so it makes sense that only men can do this sewa. In repect to all other sewa's women can do anything a man can do.

Also as an aside the Panj Pyaare due to rehat are required to only wear a bana without any pyjama so it wouldnt really be practicle for a Bibi to do the sewa.

Bhul Chuf Maaf.

WJKK WJKF

thats crap. no kid step forward to guru gobind singh ji. does that mean kids cant do it. no black person stepped forward. no white sikh etc. they were 5 great humans that stepped 4ward. it cudve been anyone. if its not women ud say where the kids represenation. i know of some women who are just as strong as men physically and mentally. sum of teh best marines in the us army are women. mainly coz they have a steady hand but they are physically as tough as teh guys. now if u wanna say 2 a woman u cant do this u cant do that - panj pyaareh di seva 4 eg. then ur living in the past b4 guru nanak dev jis times. equality people!!!!

Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji did not say i need one women's head and one man's head. Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji asked for one head. And at this time no women stood up and only men gave there heads. Only men got there head cut by Guru jis sword no women, so this is why only five men stand for the five beloved ones.

This has nothing to do with age, race, culture, or physical ability. Yes this has to do with gender, but not the way some, and I put it earlier as inequality. The only way this would be inequality if a women did give her head for five beloved ones, but today we don't let women stand for it. But this was not the case for only men gave there head for Panj Pyare and only five men should stand up.

Then there's the arguement that women devotion is just as pure as mens, but now your saying that women in todays world have more devotion toward Guru ji than the women that sat in that crowd on that day.

Lastly this is not gender inequality but following in accordance with what took place that day.

[sherlsurj]

as ive already said no kids stood up?

no people of different races?

so by your logic its only punjabi men that can stand up. yeah??well i for one am gonna bring this up at my gudwara and make sure women get as fair representation as the men.

[Only five]

as ive already said no kids stood up?

no people of different races?

so by your logic its only punjabi men that can stand up. yeah??well i for one am gonna bring this up at my gudwara and make sure women get as fair representation as the men.

You have misunderstood me. Any Sikh male that has taken amrit can stand up. Because on that day five punjabis didnt give there head 5 brown men didnt give there head, but five male Sikhs gave there head.

There's the saki of Baba Budha ji at the age I believe 9, Bura went up to him and, making obeisance with a bowl of milk as his offering, prayed to him in this manner: "O sustainer of the poor! I am fortunate to have had a sight of you today. Absolve me now from the circuit of birth and death." The Guru said, You are only a child yet. But you talk so wisely." "some soldiers set up camp by our village," replied Bura, "and they mowed down all our crops - ripe as well as unripe. Then it occurred to me that, when no one could check these indiscriminating soldiers, who would restrain Death from laying his hand upon us, young or old." At this Guru Nanak pronounced the words: "You are not a child; you possess the wisdom of an old man." From that day, Bura, came to be known as Bhai Buddha, buddha in Punjabi meaning an old man, and later, when advanced in years, as Baba Buddha.

As I and many of you were at the age of 9 playing video games not asking ourselves these kinds of questions. But here you have Baba Budha ji who at the age of 9 asked Guru Nanak Dev ji this question. This shows he had spiritual wisdom at such an early age.

There is no bar set when a male or a female will be able to understand the spiritual world. Yes in some parts of the world we are taught at a certain age we would reach a certain stage in our lives, like the middle life crisis, but Guru ji abolished all of this because when you are attuned to God one does not go through these stages of life and the age of the male or female does not matter.

In all of this a male doesn't matter how old since only spiritual wisdom and he has taken amrit and he obeys by the discipline matters can stand for Panj Pyare.

Shersurj, you can do as you please, but before doing so, try to think it through and understand what took place on that day. Sometimes we get so caught up in trying to prove others wrong that we don't actually understand the really situation.

Personally I would not take amrit if a woman was in the Panj Pyare because five male Sikhs gave there heads for this service and we should follow this practice.

[akal sahai]

as ive already said no kids stood up?

no people of different races?

so by your logic its only punjabi men that can stand up. yeah??well i for one am gonna bring this up at my gudwara and make sure women get as fair representation as the men.

someone has lost the plot..... its panj pyare not pyaria, why is that hard to understand...... do you see me arguing with god becuase i cant give birth and women can.... what happened to equality then....