Sant Gurbachan Singh Je and Sant Sujaan Singh Ji

[Guest N30 S!NGH]

Veer Shinda Singh Jee,

It’s great news to know that some parts were edited.  But did they also edit out the part where they claim that the Sants were “Avtars” of Sri Guru Nanak Dev Jee?  Because as a Sikh, that is probably the most insulting and hurtful part of Anand Chamatkar.  I would expect such claims by the Kukas or Radhaswamis, but not from a Sikh Sapradhah.

Singh47,

I had enough of you and your mis-understanding regarding 72 Nit avtars theories.

Let me make it clear to you. Nanaksar does not beleive in that 72 nit avtars only but lot of jatha's beleive in it too.

Read this topic carefully and see what our veer khalsa108 has to say:

http://www.gursikhijeevan.com/community/ph...1&i=3956&t=3956

[Singh47]

“This same Gurmukh was called before Sri Akaal Takht Sahib for his writings. After refusing to show, he and his writings where boycotted from the Panth.”

“Gurmukh Singh, writer of Anand Chamtkar was boycotted from the Panth for some of his writings, (may or may not be in Anand Chamtkar), but these writings where quite blasphemous towards Khalsa Panth as a whole. For these reasons he was called forward by Akaal Takaht and later declared tankhayeeaa.”

Veer Sindha Singh Jee, I'm just curious, when was Gurmukh Singh called before the Akal Takht? I mean, when did this incident occur?

[r.singh]

I don't understand why everyone is attacking singh47.... He didn't write the book. My parents started going to nanaksar before I was born and we regurlary attended any nanaksar programs for years. My parents still have quite a few feelings for nanaksar and greatly admire their past sants. I can say that a lot of the things revealed by the translation by singh47 are true. Firstly, gurmukh singh might be excommunicated by the panth, but most senior nanakasarees that I know don't accept this decision or even pay any attention to it. On top, these people show respect to gursikhs like sant gurbachan singh jee, but hang out with them for a while and you will find out the truth. Groups like taksaal are considered by most in the upper levels of nanaksar to be too strict and fundamentalist.... katarpanthees. I've even heard nanaksar mahapurkhs (now deceased) say about sant jarnail singh... that he was too young and rash... basically suggesting that he acted without thinking and ended up causing all the problems of the 80's and 90's. and this was openly in front of singhs that had done sangat with sant jee, so this was said very respectfully, but the message was quite clear. Behind the scenes, listen to the senior nanaksarees, and you won't even see that type of respect. the stories mentioned by singh 47 are basically accepted and passed along as fact by the older singhs. we can try denying this, but this is the truth, whether it fits the image we have of these groups or not.

[Mkhalsa]

I am just curious about shinda veer jees comment that all mahapurakhs are perfect.

Bhai sahib, this cannot be so. No matter how high avastha they get, they are still human. And as such, all humans make mistakes. This is a fact, one cannot deny this.

One proof may be that Great mahapurakhs like Bhai Randhir Singh Jee, Bhai Jeevan Singh Jee, Bhai Rama Singh Jee would not beleive in raag mala, but other great mahapurakhs like Baba Gurbachan Singh Jee, Baba Kartar Singh Jee, Baba Jarnail Singh jee would.

Another example is that Akali Kaur Singh Jee did not see the necessity in banning meat, whereas other mahapurshes did.

So theres only 3 conclusions that can be drawn 1) not all mahapurshes are perfect as they are humans, they only know what guru sahib feels needs to be revealed to them or 2) Some of the above mentioned names are not mahapurshes or 3) only the maharpurshes you agree with are perfect and the rest are can have flaws.

ADMIN NOTE: Sadh Sangat jee, this story - whatever the intent, content, reality or falsity - does create a negative image of an individual many regard as a Sant and a pooran Gursikh. In the discussions on this thread thus far there has not been a serious threat to the policies of Sikh sangat or to the "respect" that we expect from each other on this forum. However the story in itself is not of a positive nature. We humbly request that if the sangat has any real discussion to conduct - please do so from this point on, on the basis of gurmat, but do not question or slander any saint as not only will it register in your karma, God knows in the court of Dharamraaj we, the ADMINS, may be criminal nind

aks by association :umm: . No jokes, saadh sangat jee, please keep commited to respect and pyaar in your discussions. -8

[Guest noonespecial]

Mkhalsa Jee,

but what of

"Har(i) har(i)jan dhuee ayk hai bib bichaar kach(u) naah(i)| jal thay upaj tharang jio jal hee bikhai samah(i)"

God, and God’s lovers (devotees) are both the same, to discuss their differences is futile. Like waves; which arise from water, but eventually re-immerse in that same water.

Couldn't it also be possible that those who are TRUE devotees of Waheguru do not play by the same rules as us?

Just my two cents.

[Singh47]

R. Singh, I concur with your opinion. Although Nanaksar may have edited out the story concerning Taksal in their newer version of Anand Chamatkar. But still I myself have heard Nanaksaris telling me about this story. Furthermore, now that Nanaksar is very big in India, they actually propagate this story when doing Katha. I know this from people who have heard them do Katha in India. This is because Taksals power and influence has decreased considerably from what it use to be during the 1970’s, 80s, and early 90s.

[Shinda]

MKhalsa,

bRhm igAwnI Awip inrMkwru ]

I think what it comes down to in the end is arth. Those that are Anti-Sant say that bhram-giani and sant is reserved in bani for Guru Sahib alone, while others disagree. This is a whole different topic in it-self which I'm sure has been debated and talked about, many times, and being, that it comes under being a controversial topic, I wont peruse the matter.

As per your other conclusions/comments,

As I am not of the level to comment on who is/isn't a mahpursh I wont be haste into judging who is one and who isn't here, and will agree that my opinions are based largely on your third conclusion.

In regards to your second conclusion, I find it hard to believe that mahpursh could have contradicting views with one another in regards to general gurmat. For that reason alone I find that it is those that record the jeevans of such mahpursh to be at fault, or that those mahpursh had those views when they had still not obtained the spiritual stage, which they may or may not have obtained later in life.

I hope that clarifies my views which you brought to question.

Singh47, if Nanaksar continues to promote such stories then I do not agree with them in that respect and can then only thank you for bringing this to my awareness. When Mahpursh Sant Baba Kartaar Singh Ji was asked about these stories, mahpursh gave the answer that they where not true. They talked about the encounters of Sant Baba Gurbachan Singh Ji and Sant Baba Sundar Singh Ji with Nanaksar Mahpursh and described the encounters as being pure

love between two brothers.

In the end Guru Sahib alone protects and preserves the honor of his Saints, and all will be judged for there own actions.

sMq kI inMdw doK mih doKu ]

[NANAKSAR WALE]

this story is true! i have read anand chamtkar and the story is completely true! there was a rift between sant sujan singh ji and sant gurbachan singh ji! anand chamtkar is writen by bhai gurmukh singh ji who was baba nand singh jis hozzoori raagi and son of sant sujan singh ji!

there are some dodgy coppies of anand chamtakar but i have the puratan originols from like 50 years ago.

my bibi and baba ji used to go to nanaksar during baba ishar singh jis time and have done sangat of the mahapurkhs.

[SunSingh]

One must understand that a pooran bhramgiani like Baba Isher Singh ji would likely have the nimarta that they would not approve a book saying such things about another mahapurkh. Clearly, it's a fabrication made by those who place their jatha above the panth, who consider teachings from their apooran sants to be ahead of common sense.

btw, nanaksar wale, could you please post a larger version of your avatar pic so we can d/l it?