Who Is Allowed?

[guptveer1469]

Don't be happy too fast... Let's wait a few years first ! But indeed, the situation is getting better.

Bhul Chuk Maaf,

WJKK WJKF

[Aparadhee]

"in puratan maryada--rehitnamas etc, even a Sikh woman is not permitted to sit on

the throne with Guru Granth Sahib ji, so I don't see why a non-Sikh would be able to,"

any references bhai sahib?

just as you cannot imagine maharaj stopping a non sikh from performing kirtan i cannot imagine maharaj not allowing a rehitvan bibi to perform their seva. infact to suggest a bibi not be allowed to sit on tabiya just because she is a bibi is more outrageous than preventing non amritdharis from leading the sangat in my humble opinion.

i know some puratan jathebandia only allow bibia to do akhand paaht seva after a set number of singhs cannot be found, but even this system reaks of inequality.

furthermore, whether it be kirtan or akhand paahts, the common denominator is still gurbani. in gurbani, kirtan is held in very high regard and so i would think kirtan maryada in a darbar would be just as strict as akhand paaht da maryada.

i think guru sahibs appearance has changed over time, i.e in style of dastar etc. kesh was certainly a definate nishaani.

guru sahib at times had stones thrown at them on their udhaasis, this in my opinion suggests guru sahib stood out from the crowd some how. i have full faith guru sahibans wore dastara in keeping with the gurbani lines quoted by sunny, the rest only guru sahib knows

bhul chuk maaf

gurfateh

[Traveller]

Hey!!

Just logged on to find some great discussions going on...

I was hoping someone could give some references to rules which dictate who can do kirtan...

obviously kirtan in a khalsa organisation would have to be performed by a member of the khalsa...

the point was...my friends have been threatened to not perform kirtan on stage by a certain group of gursikhs-not committee members...they do not think it is acceptable that a non-amritdhari should do this....the people in question are well known and respected members of the community...

defining between a non amrtidhari and a kesdhari seems ridiculous... as anyone can be a kesdhari or turban walla...wearing a turban or a ramaal is just culture either way unless by kesdhari you mean specifically tying a gursikh pagh...

also...what is a patit? what has to happen for someone to be labelled this and why is there no place in guru ji's darbar for such a person to do seva...

like I asked before...if someone was sitting by the prashaad who was non-amritdhari (and non kesdhari if its such a big deal to visual people) then would you accept prashaad off them or would this also be seen as something terrible for sikhi...

Reading this topic shows that maybe sikhi is turning more into a cult than an embracing belief system? Why is judging others so profilerant and tolerated?

Just observations from the various view points others have expressed in this topic.....

...its scary to think its all based on individual people to decide whether someone who is of another faith or non amrtidhari can actually be heard doing kirtan in the Gurdwara...shouldnt there be declarations for these kind of things...or is the religion based on whatever people want to change things to and interpret things as in these cases?

[valli singh]

When I wrote that I knew someone would question it,

Bhaji,

In Chaupa Singh Rehitnama under the Guru Granth Sahib protocal section,

the last line reads: "a woman should never read the Granth Sahib in any Sikh assembly".

No self-respecting purataan jathebandi would disregard this.

[valli singh]

I agree Traveller,

As I stated before,

the only organization I have seen where this is an issue has been

with the AKJ at Gurdwaras where they have a sizeable majority,

I have never seen this elsewhere, if people are making such problems

that is un-Sikh and not right, if it gets too bad just go to a Nanaksar Gurdwara,

I know they don't care about people's appearences on the stage.

a patit is an Amritdhari Sikh who commits a Bujjhar Kuriet i.e he breaks his Amrit by cutting his hair

and he does not rejoin the Panth by doing pesh,

such a person is basically an outcaste,

but if they do pesh and accept the tankyia seva given to them and re-take their vows,

they can again become Amritdhari.

[Matheen]

In Chaupa Singh Rehitnama under the Guru Granth Sahib protocal section,

the last line reads: "a woman should never read the Granth Sahib in any Sikh assembly".

No self-respecting purataan jathebandi would disregard this.

This same Rehitnama also says keski is kakkar - all sampardas rightly reject that so why accept the bit about women doing paath? My point is that the authenticity of parts of our Rehitnamas is questionable, especially when they go against Gurbani.

There are deras from puratan sampardas (e.g. Bhai Daya Singh Ji Samparda) which are run and managed by bibiyan - and at times have amritdhari bibiyan doing paath during Akhand Paaths etc, if the bibiyan can manage. They still don't do 5 Pyare seva though, but we digress.

Nihung Dals, as far as know also prohibit non-amritdharis from doing Akhand Paath duties, but I don't think the same applies for kirtan.