Re:

[virk30]

lol what you get when you have a far left liberal government allowing anyone into england and europe and giving out welfare to everyone who comes to england and europe and giving them housing even when they don't want to work

[HSD*^]

in british history, the army doesnt really do the uniform-on-the-street thing. parades were usually low-key, or on commemoration days. but by doing it all the time, its opening a dangerous door (look at other countries that did this in the past). it makes people confuse supporting troops with supporting the war. it also gives the view that a soldier is some kind of praise-worthy person. but a lot of them arent, and letting these certain individuals go on parades with cheering civilians will only help to make the sickos more self-righteous. as for the muslims, where do i start? loads of them are just nuts and under the skin are identical to the people they're protesting against. mind you, to all the people above saying they should leave, what makes you think white english people see you any different to them? trust me, quite a few who do know dont even care. so before we pick a side and start jumping up and down for them, lets take a step back a think for a minute. we're sikhs and if things like this become more commonplace what do you think will happen?

[+Singh_is_King+]

I dont like pakiz but he does have a point.

Even though these gorai dont have an empire anymore, they still think that they got the moral obligtion to bend everyone else to their culture, their values and their ways of thinking.

They try to force democracy on other cultures when it is not their place to do so. They have assumed that democracy is the best way forward for all people regardless of circumstances. What has democracy ever done for Sikhs, for example?

They also try to force liberalism on everyone else. Lets face it, in our culture things are not that liberal, and to be honest I prefer it that way. Its because of this liberal 'anything goes' type of attitude that our men our becoming weak and our women are becoming sluts.

Basically, according to gorai, they dont mind what you do as long as you dont disagree with them. They are ok with the concept of free speech when they are making cartoons taking the mick out of MOhammed or a play that insults the sancitiy of a Gurdwara. However, when they hear something that they themselves feel insulted by, they start making a racket.

Lets face it, free speech has a limit before it is downright unacceptable. In the East, where faith is valued and many religions co-exist with each other, people realised this thousands of years ago. Gorai in the west are only just realising this now and trying to put a damper on free speech by creating incitement of hatred laws. What about taking the mick out of the prophet Mohammed or writing biased articles about Sikhs? I would argue that this is also incitement of hatred, however, on a slightly smaller scale. Just because it is a subtle piece of propoganda, doesnt mean that it wont generate prejudice and eventually hate in the long run.

The other thing I dont like is when gorai say, 'this is our country and you have to do what we do and live by our laws. You have to integrate. If you dont like it, leave.'

Actually, as a British citizen who was born here, this is my country. And no, I dont have to do everything that you do and live by your laws. Laws can and will have to change with the times, according to 'needs'. For example, we Sikhs 'needed' to change the motorcycle helmet law and kirpan law to accomodate us in our new country.

Any integration that takes place on my part will take place with my distinct indentity and core values remaining intact. It will be 'true' integration, rather than assimilation into the majority culture. Multicultural. Equality in Diversity.

Whilst I think that <banned word filter activated> are mad, bigoted and take some wierd kind of hallucinogenic drugs to think the way they do, I also think that they have the right to be offended by what is happening to their brethren in Iraq and Afghanistan. They also have the right to peacefully protest against the soldiers parading.

Just because you disagree with what the government is doing doesnt mean that you dont deserve to live in the country and should go back to the country that your parents came from. Why didnt they just deport the miners during the miners strike for protesting against the closure of the pits?! Well obviously, they were British so it wouldnt make sense. What about the protesting Muslims who are also British? Why is there talk of them 'going back to where they came from' when they were also born in this country?

Anyone seen Ross Kemp in Afghanistan? Sik programme.

[Murderah]

Maybe the idea of having an "unpeaceful" protest is so that it gets media attention.

[Kalsingh]

I dont like pakiz but he does have a point.

Even though these gorai dont have an empire anymore, they still think that they got the moral obligtion to bend everyone else to their culture, their values and their ways of thinking.

They try to force democracy on other cultures when it is not their place to do so. They have assumed that democracy is the best way forward for all people regardless of circumstances. What has democracy ever done for Sikhs, for example?

They also try to force liberalism on everyone else. Lets face it, in our culture things are not that liberal, and to be honest I prefer it that way. Its because of this liberal 'anything goes' type of attitude that our men our becoming weak and our women are becoming sluts.

Basically, according to gorai, they dont mind what you do as long as you dont disagree with them. They are ok with the concept of free speech when they are making cartoons taking the mick out of MOhammed or a play that insults the sancitiy of a Gurdwara. However, when they hear something that they themselves feel insulted by, they start making a racket.

Lets face it, free speech has a limit before it is downright unacceptable. In the East, where faith is valued and many religions co-exist with each other, people realised this thousands of years ago. Gorai in the west are only just realising this now and trying to put a damper on free speech by creating incitement of hatred laws. What about taking the mick out of the prophet Mohammed or writing biased articles about Sikhs? I would argue that this is also incitement of hatred, however, on a slightly smaller scale. Just because it is a subtle piece of propoganda, doesnt mean that it wont generate prejudice and eventually hate in the long run.

The other thing I dont like is when gorai say, 'this is our country and you have to do what we do and live by our laws. You have to integrate. If you dont like it, leave.'

Actually, as a British citizen who was born here, this is my country. And no, I dont have to do everything that you do and live by your laws. Laws can and will have to change with the times, according to 'needs'. For example, we Sikhs 'needed' to change the motorcycle helmet law and kirpan law to accomodate us in our new country.

Any integration that takes place on my part will take place with my distinct indentity and core values remaining intact. It will be 'true' integration, rather than assimilation into the majority culture. Multicultural. Equality in Diversity.

Whilst I think that <banned word filter activated> are mad, bigoted and take some wierd kind of hallucinogenic drugs to think the way they do, I also think that they have the right to be offended by what is happening to their brethren in Iraq and Afghanistan. They also have the right to peacefully protest against the soldiers parading.

Just because you disagree with what the government is doing doesnt mean that you dont deserve to live in the country and should go back to the country that your parents came from. Why didnt they just deport the miners during the miners strike for protesting against the closure of the pits?! Well obviously, they were British so it wouldnt make sense. What about the protesting Muslims who are also British? Why is there talk of them 'going back to where they came from' when they were also born in this country?

Anyone seen Ross Kemp in Afghanistan? Sik programme.

I agree with you.

Slightly off topic but i think that the british are up there as probably one of the most intolerant people on the Earth, contrary to what they widely like to propagate about themselves. They say the UK is very tolerant because of the wide amount of different faiths and religions all in one pot. So what though. That don't mean a thing when all these cultures and faiths are segregated not just between towns but within towns themselves, a few roads away. Even in West London, you have places like Hayes where theres a large Asian poplace but in certain parts, less than a mile away from the 'cultural metling pot' you have only white areas. I hate it when the British say they are the most tolerant because i believe they are the most intolerant.

They want you to assimilate completely. Theres a difference between integration and assimilation. As long as your name is not 'John', but instead it is Jatinder, and if your mum doesn't wear some kind of western dress but instead wears a sari, they don't want to know you (generally). They want you to completely assimilate and if you don't, then they blame you and say get out of here. Don't even get me started on if you wear a pugri and sport a dhari.

This is why Asians have not been accepted in this country. Compare them to black people. Blacks have been assimilated completely and all their names are english names. Names is just one example, but you can see what i mean. This is why you always have the blacks and the whites in groups (from school, shopping malls and beyond) but hardly the asians and they then have the nerve to blame us. I've talked to plenty of Asians who recognise this pattern and want to mix but are never given the chance. My mum and dad went to spain once and my mum heard a white woman say while she was passing by and looking, 'you try to get away from them but then they follow us here'.

[Khaalis]

Not sure what fields all you people are working in, but in the Public Sector (Government, NHS, Local Councils etc) as well as the City - Diversity is genuinely celebrated and sought - you only have to look at the ethnic make up of most bluechip companies based in London (and elsewhere).

Factory jobs, Garages etc may tell a different story.

GB is definately the best country in the world to live in as Khalsa Singh - no other country gives as many rights or recognises the historic contribution or hard working ethic of the Sikhs.

There are some raggedy backward areas based around Southall etc, but the wholel country should not be judged based on a few hill billies. A fair proportion of the wannabe gangster Southall (and such areas) populations don't do the Sikh image many favours.

I have met great natives around Scotland, South West England, Midlands... everywhere.

It obviously depends on where you go, but go to fairly educated and civilised part of the country and you will get nothing but polite questions and offers of friendship - in this exercise, we obvioulsy pay an important part in breaking down stereotypes and barriers too, so the onus is on us too!

[dalsingh101]

I have met great natives around Scotland, South West England, Midlands... everywhere.

It obviously depends on where you go, but go to fairly educated and civilised part of the country and you will get nothing but polite questions and offers of friendship - in this exercise, we obvioulsy pay an important part in breaking down stereotypes and barriers too, so the onus is on us too!

So your bringing class into it. At the same time realise that in plenty parts of the country the people will look at you a strange weirdo and probably abuse you (at least verbally). This is despite anything you do.

[Khaalis]

Not classist, simplying identifying the cause of all hate and prejudice - ignorance. As I said, educated masses are more open minded and respectful - as they know that good virtues and great deeds exist outside of their own box too. We shouldn't underplay the importance of education - Dasam Patshah has given humum for Khalsa Panth to study the Panthic Granths, Ithihas, Kirtan (and obviously associated Raag Vidya), Shastar Vidya, Theology, Politics/Strategy, as well as the non-Sikh schools of thought for contextual purposes (although obviously adhering to our own). All this requires a lifetime of study and education.

Dasam Patshahs Granths are a magnificant example of their own immeasurable education...

Education breaks down bounderies and barriers, even on a secular level - on a spiritual level it becomes experiental and obviously breaks very different barriers... on any levell, education is a key to destroying hate and prejudice.

[Kalsingh]

Not classist, simplying identifying the cause of all hate and prejudice - ignorance. As I said, educated masses are more open minded and respectful - as they know that good virtues and great deeds exist outside of their own box too. We shouldn't underplay the importance of education - Dasam Patshah has given humum for Khalsa Panth to study the Panthic Granths, Ithihas, Kirtan (and obviously associated Raag Vidya), Shastar Vidya, Theology, Politics/Strategy, as well as the non-Sikh schools of thought for contextual purposes (although obviously adhering to our own). All this requires a lifetime of study and education.

Dasam Patshahs Granths are a magnificant example of their own immeasurable education...

Education breaks down bounderies and barriers, even on a secular level - on a spiritual level it becomes experiental and obviously breaks very different barriers... on any levell, education is a key to destroying hate and prejudice.

I disagree that education is the complete antidote. No matter how educated they are, some people are going to have egos the size of the world. What it comes down to is evil i.e pride, jealousy, etc. Some of the most educated are the most racist. Look at the British occupation of foreign lands in the past, do you think they didn't know about foreign cultures and customs. They were still intent on implementing their stamp of their 'britishness' all over the world. This know it all mentality (so they think they know it all) runs rife in their culture. I'm not saying ignorance doesn't cause hate and prejudice but to me, my explanation is probably the root cause of most of their racism.

[dalsingh101]

Not classist, simplying identifying the cause of all hate and prejudice - ignorance. As I said, educated masses are more open minded and respectful - as they know that good virtues and great deeds exist outside of their own box too. We shouldn't underplay the importance of education - Dasam Patshah has given humum for Khalsa Panth to study the Panthic Granths, Ithihas, Kirtan (and obviously associated Raag Vidya), Shastar Vidya, Theology, Politics/Strategy, as well as the non-Sikh schools of thought for contextual purposes (although obviously adhering to our own). All this requires a lifetime of study and education.

Dasam Patshahs Granths are a magnificant example of their own immeasurable education...

Education breaks down bounderies and barriers, even on a secular level - on a spiritual level it becomes experiental and obviously breaks very different barriers... on any levell, education is a key to destroying hate and prejudice.

I strongly disagree with you. I work in education and although I understand and value its importance, don't for a second think that being well educated makes a person immune to being rabidly racist/facist. The higher echelons of the third reich were educated, the leader of the BNP is a Cambridge or Oxford graduate. In my own experience I have seen as much, if not more, racism from well educated professional people than working class folk. It is true that the two groups manifest their hate/superiority complex in differing ways. Whilst the educated will engage in more discreet forms of suppression the working class will be more conspicuous and possibly physical about it.

The brother who made the comment about the British Empire being led by well educated graduates highlights the fallacy of thinking well to do educated people are more civil to other communities. If anything, the education is used to bolster their views and look down on lesser "savages" even more.