Tyar Bar Tyar 2

[Jag_Singh]

To read bani is not enough.

You can read as much Dasam Bani as you like, your bedroom wall may be plastered with pictures of Sant Jarnail Singh Bhindrawale, but if you are sitting on your backside chowing down on sholay and patooray when you are not fairing your mala, if you have not exercised since PE class at school, if you have never fired a gun, you have not wielded a sword except in the light tap-tap fashion of many gatka classes, if you have not had the regular experience of having to fight under the pressure of someone trying his best to pound your brains out of your ears, you will lose any battle that you are in.

I'm sick of reading stories of Sikhs losing fights, of being beaten senseless without giving as good as they get, and of reading that bani is the solution to every problem - problems that need to be resolved with actual physical effort.

You are not a Sikh without bani, but you aren't a Sikh if you are a weak-willed cowardly wimp either.

Grr,

- K.

wjkk wjkf

Flourishing points have been made. Where do we go from here?

wjkk wjkf

[+Singh_is_King+]

Every town/city needs a jatha of about 10-15 well trained, tough Singhs, who can come together and form a larger force if necessary, with a view to undertaking any panthic sewa that might require some physical force.

Everyone should take charge of organising something in their own town/city.

If your Gurdwara will allow it, you can get some boys together and start training there. Alot of Singhs do train but they need to spend at least one session a week training together. This forms a greater bond and sense of commaradrie between them.

Training needs to be tough, aggressive, swearing, shouting and scary ... just like real life fights are.

In the British parachute regiment, they make their troops do something called 'milling' to toughen themselves up. Basically they get paired up with someone of equal size, put some boxing goves and spend the next minute trying to take each others heads clean off

Training needs to focus on street fighting, gangs, knives, guns, baseball bats and no holds barred, rather than training for a boxing match in the ring etc.

In Nottingham, Singhs organised a ten week course in Krav maga and fast defence. It covered basic strategies for dealing with verbal abuse, maintaining physical boundaries (the fence), basic strikes and defence against knives, gangs and guns.

The highlight of the course were a series of scenario training exercises where guys in fully padded suits would give the participants lots of verbal abuse and them attack them, forcing them to fight back with everything they have got.

[dalsingh101]

Best advice: Eat well, be physical and hang around with brave people. Learn to handle some grief, be this from parents, the old bill or whatever.

Truth is, this starts in the family. Over protective parents certainly do NOT help! Sometimes I see Sikh guys who are being raised like sweet little girls. This isn't right.

[Harjeet.Singh]

Is there anyone who practices parkour/freerunning here?

[HSD*^]

Also learn your history, but approach each source with a sense of objectivity, you dont know if some may have an agenda. this may give some of you some bir rass (finally!). and i echo the comment above about not treating your boy like a girl.

practice mma and other combat sports. mind you, this site doesnt have a lot of exposure, so i dont know how much the youth will take on.

also, why do you want to know about parkor?

[Harjeet.Singh]

Also learn your history, but approach each source with a sense of objectivity, you dont know if some may have an agenda. this may give some of you some bir rass (finally!). and i echo the comment above about not treating your boy like a girl.

practice mma and other combat sports. mind you, this site doesnt have a lot of exposure, so i dont know how much the youth will take on.

also, why do you want to know about parkor?

I don't want to know about parkour, i want to know if anyone here does it. BEcause i think it is as useful as martial arts. Especially in this urban jungle. It would be very useful for someone to learn. It also helps to break fear, very useful for someone with low self-esteem. It makes you feel free, even in the crappy cities we live in now.

But i don't advise anybody to eat well, or to do exercise. I advise you to consult God your help and support. I advise you to meditate on God. He will arrange all your affairs for you and sort your life out, good health will come automaticially. Plus he will make you learn new skills much faster, then if it is based on ego. We shouldn't train to defend ourselves. we should train our minds, to get protection from God. Our own egotistical efforts will render us useless. Lets say you were training martial arts but you never meditated on God, well you could end up breaking your leg or something. Then what use are you? Its all about having good karma. Only God gives this.

[dalsingh101]

But i don't advise anybody to eat well, or to do exercise. I advise you to consult God your help and support. I advise you to meditate on God. He will arrange all your affairs for you and sort your life out, good health will come automaticially. Plus he will make you learn new skills much faster, then if it is based on ego. We shouldn't train to defend ourselves. we should train our minds, to get protection from God. Our own egotistical efforts will render us useless. Lets say you were training martial arts but you never meditated on God, well you could end up breaking your leg or something. Then what use are you? Its all about having good karma. Only God gives this.

This is the otherworldly nonsense that makes us bukray in the first place!! Dasmesh Pita trained Sikhs!! He didn't just rely on prayer! You say you may break your leg training and that is a reason to avoid it. How does this make sense. One thing people need to understand is that you cannot make an omelette without breaking eggs. In training some Sikhs may die, so what, if they were good Sikhs as you say, they will be born again! Man, not long ago our people risked torture, imprisonment and whatnot for what they believed in. How can you talk like you are?

People sometimes die when training for the army or police or get serious injuries, does that mean that we should disband the forces?

Simple fact is, some Singhs will be able to contribute in this way, some not. We must make sure that the former group is larger than the latter. The family culture is central to this. It is plain dumb to raise kids like hippies and then expect them to turn into lions. Other times nature doesn't allow some people to contribute in this way due to ill health or something.

I read a passage in Bhai Gurdas's vaars saying that people were critical of Guru Hargobind because he started keeping the company of more robust, adventerous types as opposed to strictly saintly people. We must learn from that.

[Harjeet.Singh]

But i don't advise anybody to eat well, or to do exercise. I advise you to consult God your help and support. I advise you to meditate on God. He will arrange all your affairs for you and sort your life out, good health will come automaticially. Plus he will make you learn new skills much faster, then if it is based on ego. We shouldn't train to defend ourselves. we should train our minds, to get protection from God. Our own egotistical efforts will render us useless. Lets say you were training martial arts but you never meditated on God, well you could end up breaking your leg or something. Then what use are you? Its all about having good karma. Only God gives this.

This is the otherworldly nonsense that makes us bukray in the first place!! Dasmesh Pita trained Sikhs!! He didn't just rely on prayer! You say you may break your leg training and that is a reason to avoid it. How does this make sense. One thing people need to understand is that you cannot make an omelette without breaking eggs. In training some Sikhs may die, so what, if they were good Sikhs as you say, they will be born again! Man, not long ago our people risked torture, imprisonment and whatnot for what they believed in How can you talk like you are?

People sometimes die when training for the army or police or get serious injuries, does that mean that we should disband the forces?

Simple fact is, some Singhs will be able to contribute in this way, some not. Just make sure that the former group is larger than the latter. The family culture is central to this. It is plain dumb to raise kids like hippies and then expect them to turn into lions.

I even read a passage in Bhai Gurdas's vaars saying that people were critical of Guru Hargobind because he started keeping the company of more robust, adventerous types as opposed to strictly saintly people. Learn from that.

no i didn't mean we should never train and just pray. I ment to say our priority is God. God first, training second. Lets say you are unfit, and can't fight. I'm saying you should take to God, then he will sort your problems out. Maybe someone might call you and ask you to go to the gym with them. Just something out of the blue. God will do this. And lets say some people train all their life to learn martial arts. You could learn it in a good year or 2 with Gods support. I meant was, Seek God's support, and he will put you in the right sangat, but don't try looking for your own sangat. Because that will be based on ego, and you most likely will fail. Let God find you your sangat, in terms of martial arts, training or whatever. Just pray to God, and he will make things come to you, don't go looking for them. Lets say you know nothing, about diet, God will provide with the infomation. You might be in a library and you see a certain book or whatver, with all the info you need. Im just saying God will play all the drama you need to be the best you can. Its about good karma. good karams come from loving God.

[dalsingh101]

no i didn't mean we should never train and just pray. I ment to say our priority is God. God first, training second. Lets say you are unfit, and can't fight. I'm saying you should take to God, then he will sort your problems out. Maybe someone might call you and ask you to go to the gym with them. Just something out of the blue. God will do this. And lets say some people train all their life to learn martial arts. You could learn it in a good year or 2 with Gods support. I meant was, Seek God's support, and he will put you in the right sangat, but don't try looking for your own sangat. Because that will be based on ego, and you most likely will fail. Let God find you your sangat, in terms of martial arts, training or whatever. Just pray to God, and he will make things come to you, don't go looking for them. Lets say you know nothing, about diet, God will provide with the infomation. You might be in a library and you see a certain book or whatver, with all the info you need. Im just saying God will play all the drama you need to be the best you can. Its about good karma. good karams come from loving God.

I disagree. You have totally eliminated experience from the equation. You could easily argue that God wants you to take an active role in your own development. Growing requires conscious effort on part of the person. It CANNOT be left to chance. Prayer plays a part but is not the sole aspect, or Guru Hargobind would have conrinued in exactly the same manner as Guru Arjan Dev when he got the gaddi.

What about learning yourself and being proactive? Waiting for miracles or for things to fall into your lap is not logical. Remember Sikhi has two sides, the spiritual (piri) and the worldly (miri). This second one means we cannot ignore worldly knowledge/factors. I'm not being bad, but saying that knowledge/skills/abilities will fall in your lap if you pray hard enough is nonsense. Are you just excusing plain old fashioned laziness?

[HSD*^]

:doh: what a terrible attitude. surely if you go looking for something and waheguru doesnt want you to find it, you wont find it. but if we do find it, then is part of waheguru's hukam. we need to stop preaching inaction and laziness. this is how we got in this position. do you see weapons falling out of the sky? no?! so how did guru gobind get his? by praying and then looking under his pillow in the morning?! its time we saw the way our world works.

and you mention that training is separate from god. but surely a true sikh remembers waheguru with every breath?