Reunification Of Punjab

[HeatSikhingMissile]

Just got me thinking the last Sikh Raj, Maharaja Ranjit Singh had too much respect for Khalistan as to contain it with borders (but that's a whole other topic), but could a secular nation of Punjab be a viable option for Punjabis, Sikhs, Hindus and Muslims under secular law with seperation of temple and state as it was under Majaraja's rule, or would religious elements and division turn everything into chaos (again)?

Pre-Partition Punjab

[saint-soldier]

a united punjab is what we need, not khalistan or hindustan or pakistan. like it used to be before the british decided to screw that part of the world forever. a united punjab could work very well because regardless of the situation between india and pakistan, punjabis on both sides are cool with each other and have that certain respect for the people on the other side of the border. this is not present when it comes to pakistani punjabis and the rest of india because they dont have that certain connection that punjabis on both sides do. just look at the history, from maharaja ranjit singh's rule we know that people in that part of the world can live with each other peacefully. but after all that has happened in 47 it seems unlikely anything will happen anytime soon.

[2468]

nice map

[sikh in melbourne]

yh well said..but unfortunately it is not possible...

[HSD*^]

there are those on the other side of the border who would rather be punjabi than pakistani. but we cant forget that many people in those countries grew up only knowing of hindustan or pakistan. they wouldnt want to change the status quo and would get violent if things were changed. maybe looking into the past isnt the best way to find a solution, but finding an original answer that addresses the needs and wishes of the people who live there.

[proactive]

Re-unification of Punjab is an impossible and dangerous dream and if it ever happens you can wave goodbye to any power the Sikhs have had. It's all very well listening to our elders about how great it was pre-1947 and how everyone got on but then if it was so great then why did half a million get murdered in the most horrible manner and tens of thousands of women get raped? Its natural to look at the past with rose tinted spectacles and remember all the good times and forget the past. The main reason why relations were god in the past was because-;

1. The only thing most people knew was their village, the few villages around or the small town. The community in the village was close because each relied on the other, the farmer relied on the labourers to bring in the harvest, the labourers relied on the farmer to pay them with a part of his produce. The carpenter used his skills to make or repair the plough and other farm implements for the farmer. So each person's livelihood relied on the other. As in most of Punjab most villages were mixed with regard to religion so the Sikh farmer would use Muslim and Hindu labourers and vice verse so they were with each other economically

2. The composite culture of Punjab. The religion pre-1947 was lax amongst a majority of the people. Pre-1947 Sikhs, Muslims and Hindus would all visit and worship at Sufi shrines. The fact that this is against the tenets of Sikhism did not enter in the minds of the Sikhs. Muslims also worshipped at the Marhis of the Jat ancestors in Sikh villages. Sikhs and Muslims in may cases used the Brahmins to conduct their marriage ceremonies.

3. Even with the relative calm in Punjab pre-1947, there was an undertone of resented between the communities. The Muslims in west Punjab although a majority were economically backward and the Sikhs and Hindus had left them far behind. Sikhs owned the best lands and the Hindus owned a majority of the factories. One of the reasons that Pakistan was so easy to sell to Muslims in West Punjab was that they were told that they would be able to seize the lands and factories of the non-Muslims. The Muslims were also well known for being lazy and most were only ever able to scratch a living. They were heavily indebted to the Sikh and Hindu moneylenders and they were told that when Pakistan came about they would not need to pay back the money they had borrowed.

It can be quite poignant and people can get very emotional when they read stories about someone in their 80s going back to the place from where they fled in 1947 and the way the local people and so euphoric that they are there. But remember these same people were the ones who threw that person and his family out and probably killed people that he knew.

Muslim fanaticism has risen to such a level that it now threatens to take over Pakistan. This will also be the case in re-unified Punjab. fanaticism is not something that comes about and then dies, it is the default position in Islam. Look anywhere where Muslim majorities live with non-Muslim minorities and you see that slowing and slowing these minorities are losing out and live in constant fear. Look at the Christian Copts in Egypt or the Parsis in Iran. Look at what is happening to the Sikhs in Swat. The Pathans have a system of hamsaiya in which non-Muslims are protected and have a chief or a tribe who act as their protectors and yet when the Taliban took over they forgot their thousand year old system and sat by whilst the Sikhs were forced to pay jizya and had their homes confiscated. When it comes to Islam or composite culture the majority of Muslims will always go with Islam and then that is the end of composite culture and the end of re-unified Punjab.

The Sikhs of the 1940s weren't stupid, they understood that if Sikhs were to survive in the age of democracy and where brute majorities could trample on the rights of minorities, they needed to create an area where the Sikhs would be a majority. It wasn't some political experiment or an aim to keep the Akali Dal in power but an aim to protect the Sikhs from destruction at the hands of a Muslim majority. Look around the world and see what the Muslims have been doing, can you imagine what would have happened if Sikhs hadn't acted to throw out the Muslims from East Punjab and provide space for Sikhs fleeing West Punjab? Imagine an East Punjab today with a 25% Muslim minority and fast growing because each Muslim family having 10 odd kids!

Forget your romantic and dangerous notions of a re-unified Punjab.

[saint-soldier]

proactive you are acting like muslims were the only ones that killed people and created such a situation that people had to leave for the other side in 47. do you realise that the same thing happened in east punjab. the worlds biggest migration of humans didnt just happen because idiots were killing each other on only one side of the punjab, it happend on both sides.....

now was it on the same level...most probably not...but thats a different topic altogether.

[proactive]

Read you history before you start to make comments on things your have no understanding of. Sikhs suffered over four months of killings before they retaliated. Muslims even attacked Sikhs in Amritsar even though Muslims were a minority there! Don't equate the retaliation by Sikhs in East Punjab to the planned ethnic cleansing of Sikhs by Muslims in West Punjab.

[saint-soldier]

i have read history, i dont speak on something which i dont know about. your earlier post gave a impression that muslims were these evil people that killed every sikh. i have never equated the retaliation by sikhs to what happened in west punjab, so not sure where you got that idea from. but acting like nothing happened to muslim in east punjab dosnt really help your argument.

[chhokaranwala]

can never happen again

hate and fanatacism has taken over all Punjabis

the land of saints and free thinking is now the land of witch hunts and petty bickerings for which are also responsible