Why Do We Need An Independent Sikh Nation

[Guest SatwantBeantKehar]

http://khalistanchat.info/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5

[Nehmat]

If this happens...I see major destruction. No offense to your opinion whatsoever. I respect your thoughts completely.

If whatever you are wishing for... happens then for sure females will have no right to do anything independently. They'll be even 'more' sidelined than they are being now.

Sikhs, today, are all over the world. They are distributed by Akal Purakh to spread his message across to the 'separated souls'. Why disturb the process?

Guru Nanak Sahib went to two villages once. One village was full of faithless cynics whilst the other was full of Gursikhs. To the faithless cynics, Maharaj Ji said, "may you people always stay 'together' in this one village only and never move elsewhere". However, to the Gurmukhs, Maharaj Ji said, "Urjadh Jao". Means...Spread over the world. Don't limit yourself to one or two villages. Spread his message to the whole world.

Take over the world! Dream big...why get stuck in ONE country? Make everyone/everything yours. Spread his message of LOVE.

[singh70]

The Khalistani Sikhs are their own worst enemies. (Some on this forum)

They now proclaim that only Amritdharis are Sikhs - monei (those that cut hair) are not Sikhs.

That means the overhwhelming majority of the population of Punjab are not Sikhs.

So a Khalistan would be the small minority ruling the vast majority.

Is it then a surprise that most Punjabi's do not want Khalistan?

Instead of building up support - they are throwing it away.

[HSD*^]

what a surprise. absolutely no discussion. we are quick to raise slogans and say we are in unison with one another. but when it comes to thrashing out the details we fall silent.

lets get the ball rolling.

1. what will we do with our non-sikh countrymen? will we allow full scale democracy? or allow local democracy but have the national govt. formed as an oligarchy?

2. what kind of military will we have? religous-nut-job-taliban style militants or a standing army? will we use conscription? or only conscript sikhs? will we allow foreigners to serve? how big will the forces be? what kind of air force will we create (if any)?

3. if someone is born a sikh but wants to be a mona but still be a khalistani, will it be allowed? will becoming amritdhari be enforced? how strictly? will we allow other religions to practice freely (ie muslims with 5 wives or christians missionaries converting people) ?

4. what type of economy will we use as a model? israel? estonia? somewhere else? will we expand our territory if someone tries to cut off the 5 rivers at the source? will we fight our way to the sea if our neighbours refuse to trade with us and allow us to trade with the outside world?

5. how will we deal with our turbulent nature? what kind of law and order will we enforce? what legal system will we use?

if some people bother responding i will put up further points for discussion.

and to the topic starter, i disagree with point 2 in the link. no way are we having a benefits system, its done enough damage in britain. we dont need to give east punjabis a reason to laze around and drink all day.

[Harjeet.Singh]

We cannot get an independant nation as of yet, there is an evil organisation on the rise, who want a 1 world government, 1 world army, they want to make us their slaves. This shall become apparent in a few years time. Only when this "organisation" are defeated can we get our own land.

The sikh nation won't come by force, but it will come naturally to us. Nobody needs to worry, or needs to plan how we will get our own nation, it will happen as love for Guru increases.

It will be perfect and no less, and I don't see God doing it any other way. God gives us the place to live, God provides for nourishment, God is the Giver of all Joy. If anyone tries to get khalistan by themselves, their egos will soon lead them to their own demise.

Having khalistan doesn't make us any closer to Guru, so just focus on that which will, it is the most important, Love Guru and let Guru take care of us.

[HSD*^]

We cannot get an independant nation as of yet, there is an evil organisation on the rise, who want a 1 world government, 1 world army, they want to make us their slaves. This shall become apparent in a few years time. Only when this "organisation" are defeated can we get our own land.

The sikh nation won't come by force, but it will come naturally to us. Nobody needs to worry, or needs to plan how we will get our own nation, it will happen as love for Guru increases.

nwo? i dont think so.

your second paragraph may be true. it may not. who knows? but however we get a country, my questions above are still valid.

[Harjeet.Singh]

nwo? i dont think so.

It's worldy drama, but its true. Oh well it doesn't matter if you believe, nothings going to happen to us anway.

[+Singh_is_King+]

I am a Khalistani and I believe that Sikhs should have Khalistan...

however...

I think that alot of people on both sides have overused the label 'khalistan' and this name has been dragged through the mud and completely rinsed out. It has become a dirty word that lacks any credability. If you tell people that you are a Khalistani, people think that you are an extremist, terrorist, bigot etc.

I think that we now need to focus on what rights we need to obtain in order to flourish in Punjab rather than trying to fight an independence movement. We have to imagine what privelages we would experience in Khalistan and try and obtain those as opposed to doing it under the label of Khalistan.

In the 1970s, Sikhs came together and passed The Anandpur Sahib Resolution, which became the broad agenda that Sikhs had for the Panth and for Punjab as a whole. It was based on the issues that Sikhs were facing from a political, economic and religious perspective and some aims, objectives and demands to rectify some of the problems.

I think that the time has come for Sikhs to come together and set a new up-to-date agenda for the Panth based on the challenges that we are facing right now, in the modern day.

Off the top of my head, some things that would need to be addressed in the new agenda would be:

1. A new strategy to combat 'patit puna' in Punjab and the spread of Sikhi parchar amongst the general population

2. Strategy to curb the activities of anti-Sikh groups by pushing for laws that protect Sikhs against the distortion of bani, distortion of Sikh history and preaching hate against Sikhi or the Gurus (aka Lala Jagat Narain)

3. A push for more Sikhs to be recruited into the India Police and military (on the basis that Sikhs as a minority do not feel safe in Punjab or the rest of India at the hands of the police who are very brutal against Sikh protests etc)

...the list could go on. Mainly I think we should be aiming to get as much legal protection in the Indian constitution as possible, on the basis that we are a minority group. The Indian constitution has done all sorts to empower the lower castes in India for years, I am sure that we could do something similar if we pushed for it.

Anyone got any other suggestions how a new agenda could/should be formed?

[Bijla Singh]

Sikhs, today, are all over the world. They are distributed by Akal Purakh to spread his message across to the 'separated souls'. Why disturb the process? ....Take over the world! Dream big...why get stuck in ONE country? Make everyone/everything yours. Spread his message of LOVE.

Gurmat is universal and it should be preached all over the world. But it cannot be preached when its survival is at stake. Guru Sahib’s message needs to be taught well and for that we need Sikh universities, educated Sikh scholars, well trained preachers etc. All of this requires money and only when Sikhs are well organized can this be done. This is one more reason why we need Khalistan so that Sikhs will have a central government and there will be no shortage of funding and money of the Gurdwaras will be well spent. Raj helps spread the faith. Buddhism spread because of Ashoka. Islam spread when Muslims took over Medina. In India it spread when Mughals took over. Christianity spread when it was adopted by Roman Empire. Hinduism spread when they got their country. Sikhi spread when Sikhs ruled and suffered when non-Sikhs were the rulers. Creating a Khalistan doesn’t mean every Sikh will be forced to move back. Do all Hindus live in India and Muslims in Pakistan, Iraq, Afghanistan etc? Do all Buddhists live in Tibet? No. Khalistan ensures survival of Sikhi and the Panth. Remember “Raj Bina Nahin Dharam Chalay Hain..”. Having Khalistan means we will have a political voice and the world will listen to us. Imagine sending a Sikh preacher to Pakistan to preach and he gets killed. Which country will help us? None. Imagine the same preacher being sent by the government of Khalistan. Now the killers will have to deal with another country and Pakistani government will have to answer. No one listens to or cares about a homeless. Same way no one cares about a homeless community. You want to be heard? You must have power and authority recognized by the rest of the world otherwise we are just a minority in India and “sect” of Hinduism/Islam. I find it ironic that you are against Sikhs having one small country and yet asking them to take over the whole world. If a small country brings destruction then won’t occupying the whole world bring even more destruction? Bear in mind that taking over the world begins somewhere so why not start at Khalistan and then spread, preach true version of Sikhi, help people to make their lives better, teach them about peace, love, devotion and dedication? Just my thoughts.

That means the overhwhelming majority of the population of Punjab are not Sikhs.

So a Khalistan would be the small minority ruling the vast majority.

When Guru Sahib established many cities and towns, Sikhs were a minority. During Baba Banda Singh Sikhs were a minority. During Misal rule, Sikhs were a minority. During Maharaja Ranjit Singh Sikhs were a minority. But that never prevented them from becoming the rulers. Weren’t Jews a minority in Israel one time? It is a misunderstanding that Khalistan is only for Sikhs. It will be for everyone regardless of their religion. It is forbidden to force someone in and out of religion. Our great Gurus sacrificed for the right of freedom and practice of religion. Sikhi was never forced by Sikh rulers. Since it is a path of love, it must spread with love.

what will we do with our non-sikh countrymen? will we allow full scale democracy? or allow local democracy but have the national govt. formed as an oligarchy?

Everyone is free to live in a Sikh country. I don’t find any example of Sikhs kicking out non-Sikhs in history. Type of government can only be decided when Sikhs have a country because it all depends on situation and time. There can be multiple levels or branches of government. USA formed a government after 13 years. India wrote its constitution after 3 years of independence. My point is when Sikhs have a country only then can the final decision be made. Policies and laws can be reformed, modified or scraped entirely depending on situation and time. It is a good thing to brainstorm some ideas but final decision cannot be made until Khalistan is independent.

what kind of military will we have? religous-nut-job-taliban style militants or a standing army? will we use conscription? or only conscript sikhs? will we allow foreigners to serve? how big will the forces be? what kind of air force will we create (if any)?

Only the government can decide what type of military there will be in Khalistan. Until then we can have different opinions. I think every Sikh should be required to learn gatka, self-defense etc. Serving in the military should be voluntary but the government should have the right to draft people in case of an emergency or during a war. Foreigners should be allowed and only the government can decide up to what extent.

if someone is born a sikh but wants to be a mona but still be a khalistani, will it be allowed? will becoming amritdhari be enforced? how strictly? will we allow other religions to practice freely (ie muslims with 5 wives or christians missionaries converting people) ?

Khalistan doesn’t define Sikhi and being a Khalistani doesn’t make one a Sikh. So one will have the right to leave Sikhi at will. Sikhi should never be forced on anyone. Other religions can have freedom and it depends on what their practices are. I personally think (solely my opinion) only one wife should be allowed legally (as is the law in many countries), forced conversion should be illegal and any practice that harms another citizen or interferes in another’s life should be banned. Since the government doesn’t always know every practice of every religion it is difficult to declare everything legal or illegal. Communities will have to go to courts if they disagree with the law and then have it amended.

what type of economy will we use as a model? israel? estonia? somewhere else? will we expand our territory if someone tries to cut off the 5 rivers at the source? will we fight our way to the sea if our neighbours refuse to trade with us and allow us to trade with the outside world?

This also depends on what the situation at that time is. Good economic role models may fail in the future. No economic model is perfect. This is the question that Sikh economists have to answer but again policies that are good today may not work tomorrow. When we have Khalistan only then will we know for sure how should the economy work. If the neighboring countries refuse to allow us access to sea port (I hardly doubt this since India and Pakistan hate each other) the government will decide what to do after assessing the situation.

how will we deal with our turbulent nature? what kind of law and order will we enforce? what legal system will we use?

Again, very vague question. The best way of approach depends on a situation. No government in the world can come up with a solution to a problem that will arise in the future. First a problem comes then solution is decided. We have examples of Sikh rule from Guru Sahib’s time and up to 1849.

These are just my opinions and others can disagree. I believe a Sikh should always think positive and when it comes to betterment of the Panth we should think in terms of finding answers rather than questions and presenting solutions rather than problems. Sikhs should start thinking in terms of what kind of country they want to setup that will serve as a role model for the rest of the world. Decisions can only be made together after collecting thoughts and opinions of everybody. The responsibility rests on us. Guru Rakha

[Nehmat]

I find it ironic that you are against Sikhs having one small country and yet asking them to take over the whole world. If a small country brings destruction then won't occupying the whole world bring even more destruction? Bear in mind that taking over the world begins somewhere so why not start at Khalistan and then spread, preach true version of Sikhi, help people to make their lives better, teach them about peace, love, devotion and dedication? Just my thoughts.

You do eh?

Ji, 'Khalsa' will take over. This is no joke. There will be a count of 'Tera' all over the WORLD. This day is yet to come and it's making its way to us 'rapidly'.

However, if Sikh fanatics take over a small piece of land then yes that spells D I S A S T E R. I can see that this small 'nation' will be under the control of MILITANTS. I wish to not explain anything else ANY further. I apologize if any of my comments have hurt you.

Your thoughts are respected fully. Thank you for sharing them.