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Sikhi And Various Sects..ie.nihangs,sant Mat, Etc


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Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki FAteh

I am a practicing Sikh and wear a full beard which I tie up and am a professional. I'm relatively new on this board and have posted a in reply to other posters on various topics.

The reason why i say all this is because I am going to ask a few questions which some of you may find either offensive or you may agree/disagree with me.

First of all, I find that in the UK (where I live) the younger generation who turn to Sikhism turn into it very fundamentally. I mean there are many who start wearing the full kit..Nihanga wala chola..loose beard, and various kirpans and even a spear and the karra with beads.

Dont get me wrong, I'm not criticising anyone but I just wanted to ask if these youngsters are affiliated with a certain group or do they view the wearing of the full kit as 'proper' Sikhi.

I believe that Sikhi gives me peace and I say my prayers at times convenient to me (due to shift working I cant always wake up at 4am and pray)..I tend to wear a symetrical (as opposed to a round) turban. I also tie up my beard.

Now, when it comes to kakkars I cant always wear my kirpan at work and I think the Guru would understand my dilemmas when living in a western society..ie security, or what ever reason.

Am i wrong to hold this view?

There are many Sikhs who hold the view that its ok to eat meat. I for one, dont.

Some Sikhs oppose Saints. I dont.

My life was influenced by a great Saint and it was from him that I realised the path of Sikhism. I view no difference between the Guru and my Saint.

Some of you may oppose this..but this is a personal matter of divine love.

I also wanted to ask if Nirmala/Udhasi marg is part of Sikhi? This is a sect which encourages ascetism and originated from Baba Siri Chand (son of Guru Nanak Sahib). Followers of this sect sometimes dont marry and live a very very simple life.

We all talk of unity amongst Sikhs...so surely Sikhi should be deep and wide anough to embrace all these different paths within it which appeal to different SIkhs in different ways.

WHat are your views on this?

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Vaheguruu ji ka khalsa, Vaheguruu ji ki fateh

Pyare Veerjeeo,

As I noticed there are so many views on this topic but yet to be one response, this moorakh will make an attempt to answer your questions :)

First and foremost. A sikh, you would agree your guru is none other than Dhan Guru Granth Sahib jee maharaj. 10 gurus are from Guru Nanak Dev jee to our pita Guru Gobind Singh jee. You believe in the amrit di dhaat which was blessed to ALL sikhs on 1699 vasaikhi by our pita jii. He blessed us with this initiation ceremony into the khalsa and ordered all his sikhs to obey all basic principles of sikhi from Guru Nanak dev jee along with other conditions that an amritdhari should and should not do after taking amrit.

Brother, a flowing beard is what identifies us to our father. Our father flowed his beard out proudly. We should not be judgmental amongst other youth who wish to live their life in this form you talk about.

These youth that are in 'bhana' all the time, one humble request to you and others, PLEASE do not 'assume' things. Assumptions can kill all of us. We start thinking and thinking and assuming and concluding things that we get away from REALITY. I urge you to talk to them, get their reaction and perspective on things. (Im not saying you are making assumptions, but just stating the obvious)

Yes veejee, guru sahib DOES understand our situations but it doesnt mean that if my work place says you must cut your hair, you would it haina? There are compromises and then there are BORDER lines. There are many ways you can adapt to wearing your kirpan and still goto work. If your work place is not being cooperating and using racial indifferences, please contact authorities ASAP.

Your not wrong to hold these views. Others live another type of jeevan and it all depends on how one is brought up. You may see them as 'extremists' as the western or even apnai label them, but others will look at them as 'premi vale'. Always filled with love for guru sahib and continually doing seva. Yes there are MANY youth that do it for show, arrogant, egoistic, BUT, brother lets look and concentrate on our own lives rather on pinpointing on others. Im not saying you are, just stating the obvious again :)

About sants, there is a lot of respect given to sants in bani but they come in VERY few numbers. If you know someone and all he preaches is love for guru sahib, love for bani and ONLY about SIKHI, then you are very lucky to have had someones sangat :)

Im farely new into sikhi as well, dont know too much about the udhasis/nirmala but read a little bit about them. I wont be able to comment here. But yes, we should all live in harmony!

Hope that helps veer, please dont take my comments to heart.

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Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki FAteh

I am a practicing Sikh and wear a full beard which I tie up and am a professional. I'm relatively new on this board and have posted a in reply to other posters on various topics.

The reason why i say all this is because I am going to ask a few questions which some of you may find either offensive or you may agree/disagree with me.

First of all, I find that in the UK (where I live) the younger generation who turn to Sikhism turn into it very fundamentally. I mean there are many who start wearing the full kit..Nihanga wala chola..loose beard, and various kirpans and even a spear and the karra with beads.

Dont get me wrong, I'm not criticising anyone but I just wanted to ask if these youngsters are affiliated with a certain group or do they view the wearing of the full kit as 'proper' Sikhi.

I believe that Sikhi gives me peace and I say my prayers at times convenient to me (due to shift working I cant always wake up at 4am and pray)..I tend to wear a symetrical (as opposed to a round) turban. I also tie up my beard.

Now, when it comes to kakkars I cant always wear my kirpan at work and I think the Guru would understand my dilemmas when living in a western society..ie security, or what ever reason.

Am i wrong to hold this view?

There are many Sikhs who hold the view that its ok to eat meat. I for one, dont.

Some Sikhs oppose Saints. I dont.

My life was influenced by a great Saint and it was from him that I realised the path of Sikhism. I view no difference between the Guru and my Saint.

Some of you may oppose this..but this is a personal matter of divine love.

I also wanted to ask if Nirmala/Udhasi marg is part of Sikhi? This is a sect which encourages ascetism and originated from Baba Siri Chand (son of Guru Nanak Sahib). Followers of this sect sometimes dont marry and live a very very simple life.

We all talk of unity amongst Sikhs...so surely Sikhi should be deep and wide anough to embrace all these different paths within it which appeal to different SIkhs in different ways.

WHat are your views on this?

Dear brother in the SIKH REHAT MARYADA based about the various Rahitnamas one must keep ks or kakars there is no mention of whether to tye the beard or not as far as definition of sant is concerned u should not have doubts sikh history is full of sants LIKE MANI SINGH JI,PANJ PYARE, TARU SINGH JI AND OF COURSE SANT JARNAIL SINGH JI, BHAI RANDHIR SINGH JI. NOT PRESENT DAY SANTS WHO LIVES ON OFFERINGS DOING NOTHING FOR SIKHI . AS far as meat eating is concerned guru ji encouraged hunting and meat eating so sikhs should not be timids and but must not consume halal meat eating controversy is part of BABA MARYADA not the sikh maryada. NIRMALAS ,UDASSIS R NOT PART OF SIKH FOLD THEY COMMITED SUCH SINS DURING BRITISH PERIOD THAT EVEN MASSA RANGHAR DID NOT COMMIT WHEN GURDWARAS WERE UNDER THEIR CONTROL THEY USED TO EXPLOIT THE SIKH WOMEN DEVOOTEES AND USED TO INDULGE IN GANG RAPES.ONE SUCH EPISODE WAS IN 1920 WHEN AT NANKANA SHIAB DURING RAHIRASS SHAIB A 14 YEAR OLD DAUGHTER OF RETIRED GOVERMENT OFFICIAL WAS GANG RAPED BY SADHUS BELONGING TO UDASASI SECT. AFTER THE MORCHA DUE TO THEIR ACTS AND DUE TO THEIR OPOSITION TO REHAT MARYADA EVEN DURING THE TIME OF GURUS THESE PEOPLE WERE NEVER ACCEPTED AS PART OF SIKH SOCIETY. Yes SRI CHAND JI WAS DISOWNED BY GURU NANAK DEV JI.

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Hawk13, WJKK WJKF

I'm afraid that I think your comments are a bit far stretched re the udhasi sect. I know of a great number of udhasi mahatmas who devoted their life for the good of mankind.

Indeed, the name of Sadhu Beeram Daas comes to mind. A great sage who foretold that Sant Maharaj (Rarewale) would be a great Saint when Saint Isher Singh Ji's mother took them at the mere age of about 2 years old for darshan to Beeram Daas.

Main stream akali's may not fully accept the Sikh saints but it is the Sikh saints who preach day and night and give masses 'amrit' and transform their lifes.

As for the point that we should accept the Guru Granth Sahib Ji as our sole Guru..Saints also revere the Guru Granth Sahib.

Read the jeevan saakhis of Pooran Brahm Giani's such as Sant Baba Harnam Singh Ji Bhucho kala wale, Sant Baba Nand Singh Maharaj, Sant Attar Singh Ji of Mastuana Sahib, Sant Attar Singh of Reru Sahib, Sant Isher Singh Rarasahib, Sant Kishan Singh Rarasahib, JAthedar Baba Mohinder Singh Rarasahib, Sant Baba HArnam Singh Ji Rampur Kehra.

Sai Ji warge ne, visre na naam jinaa noo.

Glory be to God's Saints.

The emat eating issue is something I dont agree with you on either. History has been warped by so called historians to meet their own ends. Guru Hargobind Sahib Ji and Guru Gobind SIngh Ji hunted wild animals. However, when Guru Ji killed a creature, it was liberated from the cycle of samsara. That is completely different from you or I killing a creature whereby we accumulate bad karma.

The Guru has the power to give eternal life and so can take life. We mere mortals do not have that ability so we can never copy the Guru and say.."Oh the Guru hunted animals, so we can too".

We dont know the full story behind each animal that the Guru hunted.

Once Guru Ji (in the body of Guru Nanak) cursed Bhai Moola (khatri) when he refused to show his face to Guru Nanak, Bhai Bala and Bhai Mardana after being away from their company for many many years. Moola had stayed with the Guru for a long time but he returned back to his village with the blessings of Guru Nanak and was married. When Guru Ji after many years was passing Seaal Koth, they said "Lets meet Bhai Moola as its been a very very long time since we've seen him".

Moola's wife knew that before marriage, Moola had gone off with Fakirs and being afraid that he would again do so, she asked Moola to hide and said to Guru Ji that Moola wasn't at home.

The Guru being aware of everything asked several times but Moola refused to show his face and Guru Nakak then said "If Moola isn't here, then surely he isn't here".

As soon as these words had been spoken a cobra crawled out from somewhere and bit Moola. He died instantly.

WHen Moola passed away, his wife brought the corpse to Guru Ji and asked for forgiveness but Guru Ji said he had gone against his "bachan" and that he had refused to show his face. Guru Ji said that they would forgive him in their tenth body and that until then Bhai Moola would go though various lifes of animal form.

Indeed when Guru Gobind Singh Ji hunted and killed a rabbit, the accompanying Sikhs asked the Guru Ji who this rabbit was. Guru Ji then explained to them that this was the Bhai Moola of SialKoth whom had refused to see Guru NAnak Sahib, when they passed through Seaal Koth.

Guru Gobind Singh liberated Bhai Moola from the curse which they themselves had given in their body of Guru Nanak.

Therefore we can never compare ourselves to the Guru. The Guru is Sarbag. We are alpag. We are here in this world as a result of previous karma. MEat eating is against Sikhism.

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