Krishan Avatar

[singh_soldier]

Here is a dohra from Krishan Avataar bani from Sri Dasam Granth

ਦੋਹਰਾ ॥

दोहरा ॥

DOHRA

ਬਾਲ ਰੂਪ ਹ੍ਵੈ ਉਤਰਿਯੋ ਦਯਾ ਸਿੰਧ ਕਰਤਾਰ ॥ ਪ੍ਰਿਥਮ ਉਪਾਰੀ ਪੂਤਨਾ ਭੂਮ ਉਤਾਰਯੋ ਭਾਰ ॥੯੩॥

बाल रूप ह्वै उतरियो दया सिंध करतार ॥ प्रिथम उपारी पूतना भूम उतारयो भार ॥९३॥

The Lord, ocean of mercy has incarnated in the form of a child and in the first place he has liberated the earth from the buf den of Putna.93.

The word Kartaar means God. Did God incarnate as Krishan ?

In Shabad Hazare Patshahi 10, Guru Gobind Singh has clearly rejected the notion that God incarnated in the form of Krishan.

ਤਿਲੰਗ ਕਾਫੀ ਪਾਤਿਸ਼ਾਹੀ ॥੧੦॥

तिलंग काफी पातिशाही ॥१०॥

TILNG KAFI OF THE TENTH KING

ਕੇਵਲ ਕਾਲ ਈ ਕਰਤਾਰ ॥

केवल काल ई करतार ॥

The supreme Destroyer is alone the Creator,

ਆਦਿ ਅੰਤ ਅਨੰਤਿ ਮੂਰਤ ਗੜ੍ਹਨ ਭੰਜਨਹਾਰ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥

आदि अंत अनंति मूरत गड़्हन भंजनहार ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥

He is in the beginning and in the end, He is the infinite entity, the Creator and the Destroyer…Pause.

ਨਿੰਦ ਉਸਤਤ ਜਉਨ ਕੇ ਸਮ ਸ਼ੱਤ੍ਰੁ ਮਿਤ੍ਰ ਨ ਕੋਇ ॥

निंद उसतत जउन के सम श्त्रु मित्र न कोइ ॥

The calumny and Praise are equal to him and he has no friend, no foe,

ਕਉਨ ਬਾਟ ਪਰੀ ਤਿਸੈ ਪਥ ਸਾਰਥੀ ਰਥ ਹੋਇ ॥੧॥

कउन बाट परी तिसै पथ सारथी रथ होइ ॥१॥

Of what crucial necessity, He became the charioteer ?1.

ਤਾਤ ਮਾਤ ਨ ਜਾਤ ਜਾਕਰ ਪੁਤ੍ਰ ਪੌਤ੍ਰ ਮੁਕੰਦ ॥

तात मात न जात जाकर पुत्र पौत्र मुकंद ॥

He, the Giver of salvation, has no father, no mother, no son and no grandson;

ਕਉਨ ਕਾਜ ਕਹਾਹਿੰਗੇ ਤੇ ਆਨਿ ਦੇਵਕਿ ਨੰਦ ॥੨॥

कउन काज कहाहिंगे ते आनि देवकि नंद ॥२॥

O what necessity he caused others to call Him the son of Devaki ?2.

ਦੇਵ ਦੈਤ ਦਿਸਾ ਵਿਸਾ ਜਿਹ ਕੀਨ ਸਰਬ ਪਸਾਰ ॥

देव दैत दिसा विसा जिह कीन सरब पसार ॥

He, who has created gods, demons, directions and the whole expanse,

ਕਉਨ ਉਪਮਾ ਤਉਨ ਕੋ ਮੁਖ ਲੇਤ ਨਾਮੁ ਮੁਰਾਰ ॥੩॥੧॥

कउन उपमा तउन को मुख लेत नामु मुरार ॥३॥१॥

On what analogy should he be called MURAR?3.

[Matheen]

Parts of it are a translation by Guru Sahib. Guru Ji then adds their own views later on. Read the whole thing.

It isn't a good idea to take single tuks or even paragraphs from banis like this - the whole thing has to be taken as one entity to avoid misunderstanding.

[apnepart2]

just answer the question please.

[singh_soldier]

Parts of it are a translation by Guru Sahib. Guru Ji then adds their own views later on. Read the whole thing.

It isn't a good idea to take single tuks or even paragraphs from banis like this - the whole thing has to be taken as one entity to avoid misunderstanding.

yea, its a sort of translation. Infact the better word for translation is that its a story re-written.

In the other thread about Krishan, Bundha mentioned that Krishan "bhagwan" is being praised in Krishan Avataar, but that is not true. Krishan Avataar is just a story re-written to impart moral, spritual and martial lesson to sikhs. In this story re-written, characters are named to convey messages. The most powerful and brave warrior in the Krishan Avataar is named as Kharag Singh.

[citizen_soulja]

Singh do sum research

http://www.sikhiwiki.org/index.php/Dasam_Granth

you already seem to know the answers lol

[singh_soldier]

It will be nice if Bundha can reply to this thread. According to Bundha, Guru Sahib praised krishan "bhagwan". But thats not true. Guru Sahib just re-wrote a story thats written in one of the puranas(hindu religious texts).

[singh_soldier]

It will be nice if Bundha can reply to this thread. According to Bundha, Guru Sahib praised krishan "bhagwan". But thats not true. Guru Sahib just re-wrote a story thats written in one of the puranas(hindu religious texts).

Bundha, u there ??

[Bundha]

Sorry Guys, I do not log on 24/7.

I have great respect for Bhagwan Krishan Ji and Sri Ram Chandar Ji , does that make me less of a Sikh? Does that make me a Hindu?

LOL, Krishan Avatar is a re-telling of Krishan Jis story with a Sikhi slant, always Guru Ji has in mind the Sikhs when he writes his bani and give updashe as he goes along. Does Guru Ji praise Krishan Ji at any point? Why don’t you read it and find out. Does that make us Hindu? Does that mean Guru Ji worshipped Hindu deities? Don’t be daft.

The word PRAISE does not mean you are praying to someone it means you are highlighting some thing positive about them. If you praise someone for their sporting abilities it does not mean you are praying to them it means you have highlighted someone’s ability to play good sport. In the same way in vaar Bhauguti Ji Guru Ji praises the devtay as well as the deints (demons) when they fought bravely. It was their bravery that was being highlighted here not who they were. Does this mean Guru Ji worships the deints now ? Don’t be daft.

In our near hysteria not to associate our selves with any thing Hindu we overlook the humanity in Guru Ji who saw all people as one and Guru ji was/is for ALL not just for the Sikhs. Are we going to start to deny that Guru Arjun dev Ji asked Mia Mir Ji to lay the stone for Harmindar Sahib Ji because he was a muslim?

So Kharag Singh is the hero of Krishan Avatar, I suppose you think he was a Khalsa Singh.

[singh_soldier]

Sorry Guys, I do not log on 24/7.

I have great respect for Bhagwan Krishan Ji and Sri Ram Chandar Ji , does that make me less of a Sikh? Does that make me a Hindu?

LOL, Krishan Avatar is a re-telling of Krishan Jis story with a Sikhi slant, always Guru Ji has in mind the Sikhs when he writes his bani and give updashe as he goes along. Does Guru Ji praise Krishan Ji at any point? Why don't you read it and find out. Does that make us Hindu? Does that mean Guru Ji worshipped Hindu deities? Don't be daft.

The word PRAISE does not mean you are praying to someone it means you are highlighting some thing positive about them. If you praise someone for their sporting abilities it does not mean you are praying to them it means you have highlighted someone's ability to play good sport. In the same way in vaar Bhauguti Ji Guru Ji praises the devtay as well as the deints (demons) when they fought bravely. It was their bravery that was being highlighted here not who they were. Does this mean Guru Ji worships the deints now ? Don't be daft.

In our near hysteria not to associate our selves with any thing Hindu we overlook the humanity in Guru Ji who saw all people as one and Guru ji was/is for ALL not just for the Sikhs. Are we going to start to deny that Guru Arjun dev Ji asked Mia Mir Ji to lay the stone for Harmindar Sahib Ji because he was a muslim?

So Kharag Singh is the hero of Krishan Avatar, I suppose you think he was a Khalsa Singh.

Bundha,

Nobody is questioning whether u are a lesser sikh etc.. the point of discussion is that Sri Dasam Granth DOES NOT praise Krishan.

Krishan Avataar is just story re-written in poetry form.

Sikhs need to treat krishan, ram, jesus, mohammad just as mortals who did good and bad things (just like any other mortals). We neither praise them nor we slander them.

[Matheen]

singh_soldier, you are right - Guru ji is pointing out that Krishna etc (in the sargun sense) were subject to kaal, and have been created and destroyed countless times.

However, things need to be placed in context - look at the following pankti from Guru Sahib (ang 469):

mÚ 2 ]

ma 2 ||

Second Mehla:

eyk ik®snµ srb dyvw dyv dyvw q Awqmw ]

eaek kirasana(n) sarab dhaevaa dhaev dhaevaa th aathamaa ||

The One Lord Krishna is the Divine Lord of all; He is the Divinity of the individual soul.

This refers to the nirgun aspect, and shows how we need to place Gurbani that refers to historical people/events in context. The whole point of Guru JI translating these stories is so we can take the good points from them but not fall into the trap of forgetting Waheguru.

The total rejection of certain Hindu beliefs, especially idols etc is why the RSS and other groups are so scared of the Sri Dasam Granth and will go to any length to stop us reading it, or they try to provide their own interpretations backed up with one-liners.