Amritvella

[Sukhdeep Singhh]

wjkk wjkf,

I am a sinner who has been lucky to have a small place in Guru Nanak's darbar. I am trying to understand more on this issue. When one tells one thing, me, as a stone rolls to that direction. After all, i am a stone. Singhs are warriors, but me, i am far for that as I cant even kill the 5 sins in me. I am a sinner, which like a stone is drowning. Neither do i have my own thinking nor can i do anything. The direction this stone goes depends on my master. And sometimes, this stones asks question from my master's people, who are far more learned than me and might offend them with the stupid questions.

I do apologise. Please do ignore this small stone.

wjkk wjkf

hehe, in Gurbani it says if i was a little stone , it would appear tiny and humble ,but be an impediment to those walking on a path (stone under yur feet ouccchhh) ,if i was to be water i would be all soft and flexi but if i got too hot i would cause a burn .the shabad concludes by saying ''harjan esah chahieh ,jaisa har hi hoe'' i.e desire not to be a stone or anything but desire to be like God Himself .

To be like God , you defo need to do loads loads loads ardas constantly knocking at God's door to somehow kick you out of your bed to be up in the night hours chanting away waheguru ,nitnem ,keertan etc etc . Yes you do attain a certain level of spirituality by doing all that during the day ,but during the day you are surrounded by people ,gotta eat ,work ,study ,etc etc .During the night hours is wen all the wordly stuff is off your back , and you can focus on a romantic time wiv God n Guru one to one. It gives you loads power to be a lion during the day as you go about doing stuff . You can work out the rest of the logic yourself veerjee . O God im so proud and happy that you desire to be so close to Gurujee . I can almost picture you getting up in the middle of the night ,having a nice little shower , then interacting and communicating with Gurujee thru all ur prayers in the dewy dark night,making you wet wet wet n soaked with God's love and power. aweeeeeeeeeeeeeesssssssssssssoooooooooooooooooommmmmmmmmeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!!!!!!!!!

wjkk wjkf,

NOW, This makes a lot of sense. Waking up early gives you time with God.. Meaning that your mind is fresh and the dirt of th world has not stick on to you yet.. from a mental point of view, this all makes sense.

Thank you thank you thank you.

-It's true what people say- God gives knowlegde to selected people and it is you that help sinners like me.

Thank you.

GOd is knowledge and God exist in everyone. So your answer is No. Knowledge is not given to a selected few it is given in everyone. But Only rare devotees go through great efforts to search for this Knowledge of God. Furthermore Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji which contains all knowledge is for everyobdy to learn from not a selcted clerical class. Unfortunately , many Sikhs believe knowledge is given to a selected few ( clerical priesthood) and they decide to listen to them instead of making their efforts to acquire knowledge themselves.

[harjit nanua]

wjkk wjkf,

I am a sinner who has been lucky to have a small place in Guru Nanak's darbar. I am trying to understand more on this issue. When one tells one thing, me, as a stone rolls to that direction. After all, i am a stone. Singhs are warriors, but me, i am far for that as I cant even kill the 5 sins in me. I am a sinner, which like a stone is drowning. Neither do i have my own thinking nor can i do anything. The direction this stone goes depends on my master. And sometimes, this stones asks question from my master's people, who are far more learned than me and might offend them with the stupid questions.

I do apologise. Please do ignore this small stone.

wjkk wjkf

hehe, in Gurbani it says if i was a little stone , it would appear tiny and humble ,but be an impediment to those walking on a path (stone under yur feet ouccchhh) ,if i was to be water i would be all soft and flexi but if i got too hot i would cause a burn .the shabad concludes by saying ''harjan esah chahieh ,jaisa har hi hoe'' i.e desire not to be a stone or anything but desire to be like God Himself .

To be like God , you defo need to do loads loads loads ardas constantly knocking at God's door to somehow kick you out of your bed to be up in the night hours chanting away waheguru ,nitnem ,keertan etc etc . Yes you do attain a certain level of spirituality by doing all that during the day ,but during the day you are surrounded by people ,gotta eat ,work ,study ,etc etc .During the night hours is wen all the wordly stuff is off your back , and you can focus on a romantic time wiv God n Guru one to one. It gives you loads power to be a lion during the day as you go about doing stuff . You can work out the rest of the logic yourself veerjee . O God im so proud and happy that you desire to be so close to Gurujee . I can almost picture you getting up in the middle of the night ,having a nice little shower , then interacting and communicating with Gurujee thru all ur prayers in the dewy dark night,making you wet wet wet n soaked with God's love and power. aweeeeeeeeeeeeeesssssssssssssoooooooooooooooooommmmmmmmmeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!!!!!!!!!

wjkk wjkf,

NOW, This makes a lot of sense. Waking up early gives you time with God.. Meaning that your mind is fresh and the dirt of th world has not stick on to you yet.. from a mental point of view, this all makes sense.

Thank you thank you thank you.

-It's true what people say- God gives knowlegde to selected people and it is you that help sinners like me.

Thank you.

GOd is knowledge and God exist in everyone. So your answer is No. Knowledge is not given to a selected few it is given in everyone. But Only rare devotees go through great efforts to search for this Knowledge of God. Furthermore Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji which contains all knowledge is for everyobdy to learn from not a selcted clerical class. Unfortunately , many Sikhs believe knowledge is given to a selected few ( clerical priesthood) and they decide to listen to them instead of making their efforts to acquire knowledge themselves.

Actually yes, God is in everyone. And no, it's not necessary the clerical class has the knowledge.

But here, the knowledge is not something we read in books... Its realization... Let me give an example;. say a person, who has long hair, and big beard and prays.. But then, he is always angry and proud that he is a granthi and thinks that people who has no hair can never be close to God. Is there knowledge? Realization? Realization that

1. outer apprerance is of no use (khoor kapra, khoor ....)

2. ego filled is of no use and

3. Everyone is loved by GOd, no matter you are the biggest thug of sinner (God loves everyone the same, whether you are a saint or you are a murderer).

this is just for the example.

This is realization.

anyway, one of the biggest thing we need to realise is the love for all should be the same - whether you are a moslem, hindu or sikh. God loves everyone the same. And if God is in everyone, we should also love all the same, right? with this, prejudice and ego should vanish.

Remember, all the same- sinners, saints, murderers, thugs, priests, Mughals... all are the same.

wjkk wjkf

[humkire]

wjkk wjkf,

Back to the main question. Amritvella is really important meaning the time. what if a Sikh, who prays from the time he gets up and till he sleeps but does not get up at 12 - 6 o clock? Does he attain salvation? And he is humble and nice and all... saintly qualities, but does not get up at that time.

Veer Ji , I think you are missing the point. Salvation should tried to be attained in this life not the next, and for one to attain salvation in this life it takes alot of effort. Our Soul is like a bird crying for the immortal drink. For many life times the mind which has been contolled by the Ego and has prevented this soul from quenching its sole desire to drink the immortal amrit. We have been born and dead many times. The atma wants to rest in immortal nectar. Because we have been deprived from this immortal amrit for many life times the soul is starving for this essence.

Guru Sahib has called Amrit Vela amrit vela for a reason. This is the time Guru Jis darbar sahib ( Sach Khand) freely distrubtes Amrit to the crying souls. Those Varagis who wake up during this time their tongue has a strong desire to taste the immortal amrit. Its the same way our tongue craves the essence when we recite Amrit Bani. It is this Amrit which is the food for the soul. By not waking up for Amrit Vela we are only starving our soul from its essence. When ever we wake up for Amrit vela our Atma is in attendance in the holy darbar of Sach Khand which is our true home. Just think being in the holy darbar of Sach Khand with all the great saints. Every night when we recite Kirtan Sohila towards the end we always ask for the dust of the holy saints. We are really asking to be in attendance with the holy saints of Sach Khand where the atmic tongue drinks the Amrit of Guru Jis internal darbar.

well said . you write very inspiringly . write more ,even write a book .ill be the 1st to buy it hahaaa . luv you my veer

lol are you being sarcastic. Most of my friends tell me my words are less inspirational and more authoratative, haha. Especially my friend on this forum ( Waaheguru JI- screename)

No veerjee , i dont believe in being sarcastic, but in being direct . i mean wot i said ,and i dont usually compliment to big anyone up. I dunno who your m8s are who told u ,you write less inspirational , but i can categorically tell you ,you defo write in a very creative ,inspiring ,intelligent ,fresh and imaginative manner. If you read all of professor puran singh's books, also bhai vir singh's works ,bhai nand lal's works ,couple of books by saint scholar naranjan singh ji , (apart from gurbani), and get wet wet wet wiv simran ,keertan and gurbani, it will help you even let go more, and be more mad, more ecstactical and more chardikela in your writings. So get on your computer and write write write . You have been blessed by Gurujee with the power of written expression and He wants to use you beyond your wildest dreams ,so i humbly beg you to go for it big time. As i said we luv you as our most precious Gursikh brother .

[humkire]

1)Someone on this thread wrote ''Amritvela is only for the strong, the weak best not apply for this, as they will waste this time and with no effort, fail''

That from a Sikhi perspective is not entirely right. Remember Guru Gobind Singh Jee says '' chirio seo meh baj leraoo'',i.e i can make normal little birds fight a big hawk. As the story of bhai bachittar singh and the intoxicated elephant tells, its in the power of Gurujee to pat the back of the weakest ,tiniest ,most miserable of all and empower them with power supreme to do the unimaginable .

All effort has to originate from Gurprasad, never from your own ego. Hence any effort has to go hand in hand with God's grace. Sometimes when you start thinking 'you' are strong ,you start sowing the seeds of your downfall. On the other hand a weak person who does apply to Gurujee for help ,for power ,for strength , for kirpa ,for bakshish , for illahi preeet ,for amritvela ,for har ras , for prem bhavna ,for har jas ,for gursikhi jeewan ,for satsangat,for mercy ,for .... can get mega blessed by Gurujee. No matter how strong you are ,always say ''meh nirguniareh ,gun nehi koi appeh ters pioee, ters piah meh rahmat hoee satgur sjn milia,Nanak naam mileh ta jiwa tan man thiveh heria''.

A 'weak ' Sikh is to be helped, held lovingly and encouraged to come to Gurujee ,not to be shunned or judged bad. You can start off as weak as you could, but never underestimate the power of Gurujee to turn a drug addict into a gyanee, a stutterer into a keertaneea , a lazy dopey fellow into a wiked chardikela energised gursikh who is 'sick sick sick ' n 'mad ' wiv Gurujee's love .

2)Another veer on this thread has commented that ''Furthermore Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji which contains all knowledge is for everyobdy to learn from not a selcted clerical class. Unfortunately , many Sikhs believe knowledge is given to a selected few ( clerical priesthood) and they decide to listen to them instead of making their efforts to acquire knowledge themselves.''

Thats correct. However, Sikhi is not a lonesome journey like the lonely life of a leopord who only socialises wen its mating time. In Sikhi ,we learn from each other and those who have gone before us,as Gurujee is helping us carve out our own individual journeys towards Him. We cannot afford to just depend on the clergy but we do need to be making our own efforts to be even more informed ,inspired and more knowledgeable than the 'clergy'. Infact ,strictly speaking there is no heirarchy in Sikhism ,and the onus is on every Sikh to be able to read ,and understand SGGS, and share gurbani. W

[harjit nanua]

1)Someone on this thread wrote ''Amritvela is only for the strong, the weak best not apply for this, as they will waste this time and with no effort, fail''

That from a Sikhi perspective is not entirely right. Remember Guru Gobind Singh Jee says '' chirio seo meh baj leraoo'',i.e i can make normal little birds fight a big hawk. As the story of bhai bachittar singh and the intoxicated elephant tells, its in the power of Gurujee to pat the back of the weakest ,tiniest ,most miserable of all and empower them with power supreme to do the unimaginable .

All effort has to originate from Gurprasad, never from your own ego. Hence any effort has to go hand in hand with God's grace. Sometimes when you start thinking 'you' are strong ,you start sowing the seeds of your downfall. On the other hand a weak person who does apply to Gurujee for help ,for power ,for strength , for kirpa ,for bakshish , for illahi preeet ,for amritvela ,for har ras , for prem bhavna ,for har jas ,for gursikhi jeewan ,for satsangat,for mercy ,for .... can get mega blessed by Gurujee. No matter how strong you are ,always say ''meh nirguniareh ,gun nehi koi appeh ters pioee, ters piah meh rahmat hoee satgur sjn milia,Nanak naam mileh ta jiwa tan man thiveh heria''.

A 'weak ' Sikh is to be helped, held lovingly and encouraged to come to Gurujee ,not to be shunned or judged bad. You can start off as weak as you could, but never underestimate the power of Gurujee to turn a drug addict into a gyanee, a stutterer into a keertaneea , a lazy dopey fellow into a wiked chardikela energised gursikh who is 'sick sick sick ' n 'mad ' wiv Gurujee's love .

2)Another veer on this thread has commented that ''Furthermore Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji which contains all knowledge is for everyobdy to learn from not a selcted clerical class. Unfortunately , many Sikhs believe knowledge is given to a selected few ( clerical priesthood) and they decide to listen to them instead of making their efforts to acquire knowledge themselves.''

Thats correct. However, Sikhi is not a lonesome journey like the lonely life of a leopord who only socialises wen its mating time. In Sikhi ,we learn from each other and those who have gone before us,as Gurujee is helping us carve out our own individual journeys towards Him. We cannot afford to just depend on the clergy but we do need to be making our own efforts to be even more informed ,inspired and more knowledgeable than the 'clergy'. Infact ,strictly speaking there is no heirarchy in Sikhism ,and the onus is on every Sikh to be able to read ,and understand SGGS, and share gurbani. W

You are totally right...! Many believe only granthis have the knowledge... But the truth is this is not the case. Guru granth sahib is so simple punjabi as compared to sanskrit which the pndits used to use.

Like, Fareed said - Bura da bhala karo--- so simple...!

wjkk wjkf

[KEERPA]

Basically Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj states "If you call yourself a SIkh then you must wake at Amritvela and chant Naam", so from what I said earlier all the people who claim to be a Sikh but do not listen to anything GuruJi is saying can only "claim" to be Sikhs. Plain and simple are the dictates of Guru Sahib but the weak minded people think it is either too hard or not understandable in this simple fashion. Seeking the knowledge is how to become a SIkh, when someone becomes mentally lazy they lose alot of strength they aquired. Being strong is a metaphor for saying the ones that "try" to be Sikh. Many claim to be Sikh, when they cut their hair or drink alcohol etc etc etc but outer appearance is needed in these times as stated by Guru Gobind Singh Sahib to keep hair tie Turban (men and women) and who can do this? (the people who try to be Sikhs as worded by Guru Gobind Singh Ji) God is in all but GuruJi himself said you must keep the outer appearance of a SIkh as well as follow rehat which gives the inner appearance of a SIkh, trying anyother way is false. Checkout the rehatnamas of who is considered as Sikh in Guru Gobind Singhs eyes, he loves all but doesnt love the SIkh, he loves the rehat they keep.

[humkire]

Basically Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj states "If you call yourself a SIkh then you must wake at Amritvela and chant Naam", so from what I said earlier all the people who claim to be a Sikh but do not listen to anything GuruJi is saying can only "claim" to be Sikhs. Plain and simple are the dictates of Guru Sahib but the weak minded people think it is either too hard or not understandable in this simple fashion. Seeking the knowledge is how to become a SIkh, when someone becomes mentally lazy they lose alot of strength they aquired. Being strong is a metaphor for saying the ones that "try" to be Sikh. Many claim to be Sikh, when they cut their hair or drink alcohol etc etc etc but outer appearance is needed in these times as stated by Guru Gobind Singh Sahib to keep hair tie Turban (men and women) and who can do this? (the people who try to be Sikhs as worded by Guru Gobind Singh Ji) God is in all but GuruJi himself said you must keep the outer appearance of a SIkh as well as follow rehat which gives the inner appearance of a SIkh, trying anyother way is false. Checkout the rehatnamas of who is considered as Sikh in Guru Gobind Singhs eyes, he loves all but doesnt love the SIkh, he loves the rehat they keep.

All true but read my post thoroughly. Sikhism cannot be reduced to 'legalism ' of being nothing more than a set of do's and dont's, for which you are to be judged and either respected or condemned instantly. Sikhism revolves around the kirpa of Gurujee which then manifests itself in Guru inspired efforts and lifestyle/sikhi jeewan that flows naturally and spontaneously from a close relationship with Gurujee. Gurujee can take His time to put things in place for us in our life and getting close to Gurujee is a process, not a 'bang on, today this and tomorow that' thru our own ego centred efforts thing. Good habits take time to form and mature and Sikhi is a lifelong learning/improvement process . Yes, no one refutes with you about rehait namas and the importance of amritvela, etc but in the initial stages it can take some time to learn,to get used to , and adhere to a new Gursikhi lifestyle so your rehni/behni/kehni/sehni conform with Gurujee's wishes. This may not have been your experience, but it is indeed the usual experience of a whole amount of amritdharees i have known throughout the many long years of my life .

And concerning those who claim to be one but are another, as i said before,as much as what they do can be painful, dont hate or look down upon them ,but do parchar , constantly challenge and inspire,educate them , and who knows when your parchar, Guru's kirpa and their good karma will come together at which stage of their life to change them .

The hall mark of a Sikh is to be loving ,compassionate ,humble ,truthful, fearless , caring ,charismatic, encouraging ,creative ,dynamic , and helpful. In the long term, such qualities will draw and attract many to your way of life .to your mindset and to your company and they will want you to help them be an inspired rehatvaan Sikh as you are . But as in all things, you need patience. Gurujee is being patient as He untiringly helps you to be a better saint soldier and you need to be patient with others . Rome was not built in a day but it surely was ,Lanka was not destroyed in a day but it surely was .

[AmarjitKaur]

All true but read my post thoroughly. Sikhism cannot be reduced to 'legalism ' of being nothing more than a set of do's and dont's, for which you are to be judged and either respected or condemned instantly. Sikhism revolves around the kirpa of Gurujee which then manifests itself in Guru inspired efforts and lifestyle/sikhi jeewan that flows naturally and spontaneously from a close relationship with Gurujee. Gurujee can take His time to put things in place for us in our life and getting close to Gurujee is a process, not a 'bang on, today this and tomorow that' thru our own ego centred efforts thing. Good habits take time to form and mature and Sikhi is a lifelong learning/improvement process . Yes, no one refutes with you about rehait namas and the importance of amritvela, etc but in the initial stages it can take some time to learn,to get used to , and adhere to a new Gursikhi lifestyle so your rehni/behni/kehni/sehni conform with Gurujee's wishes. This may not have been your experience, but it is indeed the usual experience of a whole amount of amritdharees i have known throughout the many long years of my life .

And concerning those who claim to be one but are another, as i said before,as much as what they do can be painful, dont hate or look down upon them ,but do parchar , constantly challenge and inspire,educate them , and who knows when your parchar, Guru's kirpa and their good karma will come together at which stage of their life to change them .

The hall mark of a Sikh is to be loving ,compassionate ,humble ,truthful, fearless , caring ,charismatic, encouraging ,creative ,dynamic , and helpful. In the long term, such qualities will draw and attract many to your way of life .to your mindset and to your company and they will want you to help them be an inspired rehatvaan Sikh as you are . But as in all things, you need patience. Gurujee is being patient as He untiringly helps you to be a better saint soldier and you need to be patient with others . Rome was not built in a day but it surely was ,Lanka was not destroyed in a day but it surely was .

Couldn't have worded it better than this. Thank you jee for being the voice of many.

[KEERPA]

I dont look down on anyone. Sometimes true blunt words is how some get the picture because intellect doesnt hold too much space when Gurbani states everything in BOLD. Lots try to downgrade their Sikhi by saying they dont have to do Amritvela etc. We can all sound nice and say do what you feel at the level you are but sometimes people use that as an excuse (is all Im trying to say) I was just reading a shabad about the king of Lanka yesterday (sorry to go slightly off topic with this but to me its sorta ironic)

I am doing a youth workshop at Bradshaw Gurdwara Sacramento,California on August 22nd 2009, as this is the better ways of actually teaching the youth about these aspects in GuruJis presence etc. I am a part of United Sikhs and the workshop is a United Sikhs program as to date we have had 5 or so from Bakersfield up to now Sac.

I will make a thread about this later on today with the flyer.

[harjit nanua]

I agree with Humkire Ji.

Sikhism never had stern laws, like other religions. See, instead of saying do not have aldultary, otherwise you will be stone, Guruji says, control your lust. By controlling your lust, a lot of other problem gets cured. Simple, but that is the hardest part. It's easy for a human to not have adultery but at the same time watches pornography 24x7. But first, Guru said, do not have ego. Once we dont have ego, we love all the same. Guru Gobind Singh Ji said-"jin prem kio, thin hi prabh paio".

Whar we have been doing is saying that some sikhs do not have turbans and such. TWo things happen here. First, we shunn them away. second, this is all ego. The feeling that i have a turban, and he does not.

well, we should love all. everyone. Whether he drinks, smokes and such. we are never to judge. I mean, God gave salvation to Ganika, a prostitute. Guru Nanak made Sajjan the Thug into a saint. This is all His works.

The reason being, is that we are quick to judge people. even a stone like me. This is the reason Guru Nanak rejected the practise of Yogi (in his banee Siddhi Gosh). Because the Yogi, leave everything but have a high ego that they are God's favourite. Isnt that the same?

One gets up at amritvella, amrithari and can have a high ego, because he is better than other. This should not be the case right?

everyone should be the same, even the greatest sinner. If God does not hate them, or dislike them, why should we? (Nirvair).

my ten cents worth.

wjkk wjkf