Premarital Sex

[Guest YoungLady]

Waheguru Ji ka khalsa, Waheguru Ji ki fateh!

I know this topic has often been discussed, however, in most cases (what I have found, when I did some research on in the internet) this ends up with offending each other and that whole stuff. I am not into that... I really WANT YOUR OPINION, please ! We have got freedom of speech, right? :happy:

Firstly (just before someone asks): I absolutely believe in God. I believe, that our SGGS is our Lord-Guru. I try to obey SGGS. I believe in reincarnation, the messenger of Death, the rightouess judge of dharma and everything which is mentioned in the SGGS.

I have often thought about this question:

Does our GuruJi SGGS allow us premarital Sex. If not, then did he forbade it?

I know that GuruJi says, that Kam (lust) is a deadly sin. Therefore Sikhs believe, that on should be marriaged to the guy one has sex with. I can definately understand this. BUT: Why should it not be allowed to have sex with a person you really love? I absolutely see, that having sex with a relationship (long-term) is wrong, but if I DO love the guy, and he loves me, what is wrong about this?

I agree, that having sex with a other guy (once you are married) is a sin....

So in short: Could you please tell me, where in SGGS or what our 10 Gurus said about premarital sex? I know that kam is a sin, which means, you go crazy just for the sake of sex... but what about a healthy relationship to a guy (without marriage) and sex?

Thank you very much,

it would be great if you could also tell the page if you quote SRI GURU GRANTH SAHIB !

Thank you very very much...

Ik onkar sat gur prasad !

[Shadow]

Rehatnama:

ibnw AnMd ibvwh qy Bugqy pr kI joie ] sux isKw gur kih Q~ky myrw isK n soie ]25]

binaa ana(n)dh bivaah thae bhugathae par kee joe || sun sikhaa gur kehi thhaakae maeraa sikh n soe ||25||

Without having Anand Karaj those who have sexual relationships. Listen O' Sikh the Guru states, he is not my Sikh.

Rehatnama Mukhthnama

One of the 4 Bujjar Kurehits is Adultery which means having any sexual relationship with someone other than your partner. He is not your partner, so the answer is- NO!

[SikherOfTheNaam]

Fateh Phenjee,

I hope your good

Firstly, I would just like to say that I am glad that you have taken the courage to ask us a question based upon what seems to be a "fragile" topic at the moment... 'Relationships'

We see too much nowadays that if you are a Sikh or even a religious believer for that matter, if you ask others a question which involves relationships and even "worse" the physical aspects of it, you are given a somewhat abrupt and immediate answer, with some deeming it to be "wrong altogether.

In my response, I can hope to help you, by sharing my viewpoint alone unto what I personally believe, whilst also trying to see what you’re experiencing; through your own eyes.

I believe that my answer to your question will be different to what you may expect and there is no doubt my opinion will differ to the someone else’s, but what you eventually decide to do, is your choice alone as that is what you have taken from the answers given to you

I think that to answer your question, the first thing is to actually comment upon the concept of “Love” and how this may have led you to asking us this question in the first place.

To me personally; there are many stages and branches to the concept of “love”... from the love that you bear for yourself, to that of God and the Guru, that which you bear for your family, friends, along with your partner.

So you could ask yourself... is love that typical Hollywood film sketch, where a particular person means everything to us, they forever play on our mind, life seems impossible without them, he/she are most beautiful thing to walk the planet and that we dream of spending the rest of our lives together?

Initially you may look at this as being both lustful and involving attachment. I agree that to a degree indeed it does involve lust and attachment, as you are attracted to worldly things.

However, I do believe that the above example I have given is pretty extreme and that, it is important for us to realise that there is in actual fact a fine line between lust these two evils stated above, and actually caring for somebody.

Throughout life from childhood to adulthood, our companions and friendship circles change. As a teenager, girls have close friendship circles which consist mainly of girls, and boys have a majority of male friends as that is who we mostly relate to and who we share our interests with.

However, the whole reason why there are even things such as relationships is that your soul becomes ready for that next stage of life of having that special kind of companionship which differs from your teenage years and that is between a male to female and vice verse, and this is when you experience a different feeling towards that person.

It is important for us to realise whilst in many cases this can be the fact that we care for them in a different way to say e.g. a friend, we are actually often deluded by lust.

When we get involved in a relationship it is important to ask ourselves why we are doing this and is it for the right reasons?

Some people may get involved in them for the sake of copying their friends or trying to fit into society and that it is seen as “cool”.

Others get involved in relationships because they do not truly love themselves (with loving yourself for who you are, being the first stage to this whole concept) This is not a bad thing and shouldn’t be shunned upon, it is just that an individual lacks a level of self confidence and thus, seek this affection from others in the form of boyfriends and girlfriends etc. for them to tell them they are loved.

So with this, I wanted to pose this rhetorical question to you...

Why is it that you want to have a physical relationship with your partner?

Is it because before you consider the lifelong commitment of marriage (whenever ever that maybe) you want to cover all the aspects of ensuring that you love one another and believe that is the next step? If so, it doesn’t have to involve the physical aspects of premarital sex as this won’t provide any benefits such as signifying they can support you through life etc. which is what you look for in a person. The only benefits gained from such actions will be temporary and will provide you with nothing in the long term.

Because we have each been blessed with this special human life in where we able to remember God and serve humanity, it is important in the short time we have left, for us not to waste our time pursuing worldly pleasures. It is only once a person is married and can provide such support to their spouse that they may decide to then start a family, where the physical side can then be carried out, which will then serve a purpose... of procreation.

So to conclude jee; my opinions on premarital sex isn’t that it is really wrong and no one should have sex until they are married. I just see it as a thing that isn’t of a big concern when in a relationship as it doesn’t benefit us as it is not only lustful in most instances but also provides us with nothing onto whether we “love” that person. Moreover, as this precious human life is so short, we ideally should be spending all the time made available to us serving Vaaheguroo and humanity.

I hope that this has provided you with a sort of an answer and that you may take from it whatever you wish, whether you choose to agree or disagree as at the end of the day, you are you and I and no one else has the right to judge you for your actions, but can only provide guidance from my own beliefs.

Sorry for the long response! Sorry if I have offended anyone, this wasn't my intention.

Take Care. All the best.

Vaaheguroo Jee Kaa Khaalsaa, Vaaheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!

[Guest YoungLady]

Hallo again !

@Shadow:

1. I thank you very much "Shadow" for your answer, I also thank you for quoting. It would be great, if you could tell me the page in SGGS, please.

2. I absolutely respect your opinion. I would like to ask a question, please do not consider this as offending, I just want to learn from you. You pointed out that having a sexual relationship with "someone other than your partner" is wrong. I agree. But couldnt we consider a boyfriend (in a long-term-relationship) as a partner? Thank you very much for your reply.

@SikherOfTheNaam:

1.Thank you very very much for your great reply. It really made me think about all these things. I really appreciate and respect your answer.

2. Especially this sentence was quite helpful: "When we get involved in a relationship it is important to ask ourselves why we are doing this and is it for the right reasons?" I will try to answer it. As I live in Germany, it is nothing special to have a sexual relationship with your boyfriend (already at the age of 16...). However, I am not interested in this stuff and to me it does not matter if its "cool" or not. I guess, it is just, that I want affection from a boy/guy, which I did not really get from my father. Someone might answer: Pray to god every morning and you wont need this anymore. That is absolutely right. But still I would be grateful if i would get some physical (not sex, just someone you hugs you and all that stuff) love. But the thing is.... no one apart from your parents will give you this, without receiving anything in return right? Moreover, I feel, that you cant get more physical love than the one you get, when you have sex?

Another aspect that bothers me is: Do I really HAVE TO get married? Do i HAVE TO have children? I mean, there are so many people that get divorced. So many guys/women cheat each other and all that stuff.... it is really hard.

Once again... I hope I won't offend anyone with this reply.

Thank you very much, for all answers.

Vaaheguroo Jee Kaa Khaalsaa, Vaaheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!

[Guest Guest]

Waheguru ji ka khalsa

Waheguru ji ki fateh

Young lady ji,

Sikhi teaches us to keep restrain and control over Kaam. A Sikh must follow the Code of Conduct(Rehat Maryada), commit before Guru Sahib jeeo i.e have Anand Karaj and then have sex with spouse. Other than that there is trouble !

ਕਾਮ ਕ੍ਰੋਧ ਅਰੁ ਲੋਭ ਮੋਹ ਇਹ ਇੰਦ੍ਰੀ ਰਸਿ ਲਪਟਾਧੇ ॥ ਦੀਈ ਭਵਾਰੀ ਪੁਰਖਿ ਬਿਧਾਤੈ ਬਹੁਰਿ ਬਹੁਰਿ ਜਨਮਾਧੇ ॥੩॥

काम क्रोध अरु लोभ मोह इह इंद्री रसि लपटाधे ॥ दीई भवारी पुरखि बिधातै बहुरि बहुरि जनमाधे ॥३॥

Kām kroḏẖ ar lobẖ moh ih inḏrī ras laptāḏẖe. Ḏī▫ī bẖavārī purakẖ biḏẖāṯai bahur bahur janmāḏẖe. ||3||

Your senses are beguiled by sensual pleasures of sex, by anger, greed and emotional attachment. The All-powerful Architect of Destiny has ordained that you shall be reincarnated over and over again. ||3||

ਇੰਦ੍ਰੀ ਰਸਿ = ਇੰਦ੍ਰਿਆਂ ਦੇ ਰਸ ਵਿਚ। ਦੀਈ = ਦਿੱਤੀ। ਭਵਾਰੀ = ਭਵਾਟਣੀ। ਪੁਰਖਿ = ਪੁਰਖ ਨੇ। ਬਿਧਾਤੈ = ਵਿਧਾਤਾ ਨੇ।੩।

ਕਾਮ, ਕ੍ਰੋਧ, ਲੋਭ, ਮੋਹ (ਆਦਿਕ ਵਿਕਾਰਾਂ ਵਿਚ) ਇੰਦ੍ਰਿਆਂ ਦੇ ਰਸ ਵਿਚ (ਮਨੁੱਖ) ਗ਼ਲਤਾਨ ਰਹਿੰਦਾ ਹੈ। (ਇਹਨਾਂ ਕੁਕਰਮਾਂ ਦੇ ਕਾਰਨ ਜਦੋਂ) ਸਿਰਜਨਹਾਰ ਅਕਾਲ ਪੁਰਖ ਨੇ (ਇਸ ਨੂੰ ਚੌਰਾਸੀ ਲੱਖ ਜੂਨਾਂ ਵਾਲੀ) ਭਵਾਟਣੀ ਦੇ ਦਿੱਤੀ ਤਾਂ ਇਹ ਮੁੜ ਮੁੜ ਜੂਨਾਂ ਵਿਚ ਭਟਕਦਾ ਫਿਰਦਾ ਹੈ।੩।

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ਆਸਾ ਮਹਲਾ ੫ ॥ ਨਿਮਖ ਕਾਮ ਸੁਆਦ ਕਾਰਣਿ ਕੋਟਿ ਦਿਨਸ ਦੁਖੁ ਪਾਵਹਿ ॥ ਘਰੀ ਮੁਹਤ ਰੰਗ ਮਾਣਹਿ ਫਿਰਿ ਬਹੁਰਿ ਬਹੁਰਿ ਪਛੁਤਾਵਹਿ ॥੧॥

आसा महला ५ ॥ निमख काम सुआद कारणि कोटि दिनस दुखु पावहि ॥ घरी मुहत रंग माणहि फिरि बहुरि बहुरि पछुतावहि ॥१॥

Āsā mėhlā 5. Nimakẖ kām su▫āḏ kāraṇ kot ḏinas ḏukẖ pāvahi. Gẖarī muhaṯ rang māṇėh fir bahur bahur pacẖẖuṯāvahi. ||1||

Aasaa, Fifth Mehl: For a moment of sexual pleasure, you shall suffer in pain for millions of days. For an instant, you may savor pleasure, but afterwards, you shall regret it, again and again. ||1||

ਨਿਮਖ = {निमेष} ਅੱਖ ਝਮਕਣ ਜਿਤਨਾ ਸਮਾ। ਕਾਰਣਿ = ਦੀ ਖ਼ਾਤਰ। ਕੋਟਿ = ਕ੍ਰੋੜਾਂ। ਘਰੀ = ਘੜੀ। ਮੁਹਤ = ਮੁਹੂਰਤ, ਦੋ ਘੜੀਆਂ, ਪਲ ਮਾਤ੍ਰ। ਮਾਣਹਿ = ਤੂੰ ਮਾਣਦਾ ਹੈਂ।੧।

ਹੇ ਅੰਨ੍ਹੇ ਜੀਵ! ਥੋੜਾ ਜਿਤਨਾ ਸਮਾ ਕਾਮ-ਵਾਸਨਾ ਦੇ ਸੁਆਦ ਦੀ ਖ਼ਾਤਰ (ਫਿਰ) ਤੂੰ ਕ੍ਰੋੜਾਂ ਹੀ ਦਿਨ ਦੁੱਖ ਸਹਾਰਦਾ ਹੈਂ। ਤੂੰ ਘੜੀ ਦੋ ਘੜੀਆਂ ਮੌਜਾਂ ਮਾਣਦਾ ਹੈਂ, ਉਸ ਤੋਂ ਪਿੱਛੋਂ ਮੁੜ ਮੁੜ ਪਛੁਤਾਂਦਾ ਹੈਂ।੧।

ਅੰਧੇ ਚੇਤਿ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਰਾਇਆ ॥ ਤੇਰਾ ਸੋ ਦਿਨੁ ਨੇੜੈ ਆਇਆ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥

अंधे चेति हरि हरि राइआ ॥ तेरा सो दिनु नेड़ै आइआ ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥

Anḏẖe cẖeṯ har har rā▫i▫ā. Ŧerā so ḏin neṛai ā▫i▫ā. ||1|| rahā▫o.

O blind man, meditate on the Lord, the Lord, your King. Your day is drawing near. ||1||Pause||

ਅੰਧੇ = ਹੇ ਕਾਮ ਵਾਸਨਾ ਵਿਚ ਅੰਨ੍ਹੇ ਹੋਏ ਜੀਵ! ਹਰਿ ਰਾਇਆ = ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਪਾਤਿਸ਼ਾਹ।੧।ਰਹਾਉ।

ਹੇ ਕਾਮ-ਵਾਸਨਾ ਵਿਚ ਅੰਨ੍ਹੇ ਹੋਏ ਜੀਵ! (ਇਹ ਵਿਕਾਰਾਂ ਵਾਲਾ ਰਾਹ ਛੱਡ, ਤੇ) ਪ੍ਰਭੂ-ਪਾਤਿਸ਼ਾਹ ਦਾ ਸਿਮਰਨ ਕਰ। ਤੇਰਾ ਉਹ ਦਿਨ ਨੇੜੇ ਆ ਰਿਹਾ ਹੈ (ਜਦੋਂ ਤੂੰ ਇਥੋਂ ਕੂਚ ਕਰ ਜਾਣਾ ਹੈ)।੧।ਰਹਾਉ।

ਪਲਕ ਦ੍ਰਿਸਟਿ ਦੇਖਿ ਭੂਲੋ ਆਕ ਨੀਮ ਕੋ ਤੂੰਮਰੁ ॥ ਜੈਸਾ ਸੰਗੁ ਬਿਸੀਅਰ ਸਿਉ ਹੈ ਰੇ ਤੈਸੋ ਹੀ ਇਹੁ ਪਰ ਗ੍ਰਿਹੁ ॥੨॥

पलक द्रिसटि देखि भूलो आक नीम को तूमरु ॥ जैसा संगु बिसीअर सिउ है रे तैसो ही इहु पर ग्रिहु ॥२॥

Palak ḏarisat ḏekẖ bẖūlo āk nīm ko ṯūʼnmar. Jaisā sang bisī▫ar si▫o hai re ṯaiso hī ih par garihu. ||2||

You are deceived, beholding with your eyes, the bitter melon and swallow-wort. But, like the companionship of a poisonous snake, so is the desire for another's spouse. ||2||

ਪਲਕ ਦ੍ਰਿਸਟਿ = ਅੱਖ ਝਮਕਣ ਜਿਤਨਾ ਸਮਾ। ਆਕ ਨੀਮ ਕੋ ਤੂੰਮਰੁ = ਅੱਕ ਨਿੰਮ ਵਰਗਾ ਕੌੜਾ ਤੁੰਮਾ। ਸੰਗੁ = ਸਾਥ। ਬਿਸੀਅਰ = ਸੱਪ। ਪਰ ਗ੍ਰਿਹੁ = ਪਰਾਇਆ ਘਰ, ਪਰਾਈ ਇਸਤ੍ਰੀ ਦਾ ਸੰਗ।੨।

ਹੇ ਅੰਨ੍ਹੇ ਮਨੁੱਖ! ਅੱਕ ਨਿੰਮ ਵਰਗੇ ਕੌੜੇ ਤੁੰਮੇ ਨੂੰ (ਜੋ ਵੇਖਣ ਨੂੰ ਸੋਹਣਾ ਹੁੰਦਾ ਹੈ) ਥੋੜੇ ਜਿਤਨੇ ਸਮੇਂ ਲਈ ਵੇਖ ਕੇ ਤੂੰ ਭੁੱਲ ਜਾਂਦਾ ਹੈਂ। ਹੇ ਅੰਨ੍ਹੇ! ਪਰਾਈ ਇਸਤ੍ਰੀ ਦਾ ਸੰਗ ਇਉਂ ਹੀ ਹੈ ਜਿਵੇਂ ਸੱਪ ਨਾਲ ਸਾਥ ਹੈ।੨।

ਬੈਰੀ ਕਾਰਣਿ ਪਾਪ ਕਰਤਾ ਬਸਤੁ ਰਹੀ ਅਮਾਨਾ ॥ ਛੋਡਿ ਜਾਹਿ ਤਿਨ ਹੀ ਸਿਉ ਸੰਗੀ ਸਾਜਨ ਸਿਉ ਬੈਰਾਨਾ ॥੩॥

बैरी कारणि पाप करता बसतु रही अमाना ॥ छोडि जाहि तिन ही सिउ संगी साजन सिउ बैराना ॥३॥

Bairī kāraṇ pāp karṯā basaṯ rahī amānā. Cẖẖod jāhi ṯin hī si▫o sangī sājan si▫o bairānā. ||3||

For the sake of your enemy, you commit sins, while you neglect the reality of your faith. Your friendship is with those who abandon you, and you are angry with your friends. ||3||

ਬੈਰੀ = ਵੈਰਨ, ਮਾਇਆ। ਬਸਤੁ = (ਅਸਲ) ਚੀਜ਼। ਅਮਾਨਾ = ਅਮਨ ਅਮਾਨ, ਲਾਂਭੇ ਹੀ। ਬੈਰਾਨਾ = ਵੈਰ।੩।

ਹੇ ਅੰਨ੍ਹੇ! (ਅੰਤ) ਵੈਰ ਕਮਾਣ ਵਾਲੀ (ਮਾਇਆ) ਦੀ ਖ਼ਾਤਰ ਤੂੰ (ਅਨੇਕਾਂ) ਪਾਪ ਕਰਦਾ ਰਹਿੰਦਾ ਹੈਂ, ਅਸਲ ਚੀਜ਼ (ਜੋ ਤੇਰੇ ਨਾਲ ਨਿਭਣੀ ਹੈ) ਲਾਂਭੇ ਹੀ ਪਈ ਰਹਿ ਜਾਂਦੀ ਹੈ। ਜਿਨ੍ਹਾਂ ਨੂੰ ਤੂੰ ਆਖ਼ਰ ਛੱਡ ਜਾਏਂਗਾ ਉਹਨਾਂ ਨਾਲ ਤੂੰ ਸਾਥ ਬਣਾਇਆ ਹੋਇਆ ਹੈ, ਹੇ ਮਿੱਤਰ (-ਪ੍ਰਭੂ) ਨਾਲ ਵੈਰ ਪਾਇਆ ਹੋਇਆ ਹੈ।੩।

ਸਗਲ ਸੰਸਾਰੁ ਇਹੈ ਬਿਧਿ ਬਿਆਪਿਓ ਸੋ ਉਬਰਿਓ ਜਿਸੁ ਗੁਰੁ ਪੂਰਾ ॥ ਕਹੁ ਨਾਨਕ ਭਵ ਸਾਗਰੁ ਤਰਿਓ ਭਏ ਪੁਨੀਤ ਸਰੀਰਾ ॥੪॥੫॥੧੨੭॥

सगल संसारु इहै बिधि बिआपिओ सो उबरिओ जिसु गुरु पूरा ॥ कहु नानक भव सागरु तरिओ भए पुनीत सरीरा ॥४॥५॥१२७॥

Sagal sansār ihai biḏẖ bi▫āpi▫o so ubri▫o jis gur pūrā. Kaho Nānak bẖav sāgar ṯari▫o bẖa▫e punīṯ sarīrā. ||4||5||127||

The entire world is entangled in this way; he alone is saved, who has the Perfect Guru. Says Nanak, I have crossed over the terrifying world-ocean; my body has become sanctified. ||4||5||127||

ਇਹੈ ਬਿਧਿ = ਇਸੇ ਤਰ੍ਹਾਂ। ਬਿਆਪਿਓ = ਫਸਿਆ ਹੋਇਆ ਹੈ। ਉਬਰਿਓ = ਬਚਿਆ। ਭਵ ਸਾਗਰੁ = ਸੰਸਾਰ-ਸਮੁੰਦਰ।੪।

ਹੇ ਨਾਨਕ! ਆਖ-ਸਾਰਾ ਸੰਸਾਰ ਇਸੇ ਤਰ੍ਹਾਂ ਮਾਇਆ ਦੇ ਜਾਲ ਵਿਚ ਫਸਿਆ ਹੋਇਆ ਹੈ, ਇਸ ਵਿਚੋਂ ਉਹੀ ਬਚ ਕੇ ਨਿਕਲਦਾ ਹੈ ਜਿਸ ਦਾ ਰਾਖਾ ਪੂਰਾ ਗੁਰੂ ਬਣਦਾ ਹੈ, ਉਹ ਮਨੁੱਖ ਸੰਸਾਰ-ਸਮੁੰਦਰ ਤੋਂ ਪਾਰ ਲੰਘ ਜਾਂਦਾ ਹੈ, ਉਸ ਦਾ ਸਰੀਰ ਪਵਿਤ੍ਰ ਹੋ ਜਾਂਦਾ ਹੈ (ਵਿਕਾਰਾਂ ਦੀ ਮਾਰ ਤੋਂ ਬਚ ਜਾਂਦਾ ਹੈ)।੪।੫।੧੨੭।

Source: http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.gurbani?Action=Page&Param=403&g=1&h=1&r=1&t=1&p=0&k=1

Waheguru ji ka khalsa

Waheguru ji ki fateh

[YoungLady]

Waheguru Ji ka khalsa, Waheguru Ji ki fateh!

Firstly I' d like to thank both of you ! Your answers were really interesting. And since I definitely enjoyed reading other opinions... I also subscribed to "Voice of Sikh Youth". :BL:

@"Shadow":

1. Thank you very much for your answer shadow, moreover I appreciate, that you quoted from SGGS. Could you please tell me the page?

2. I absolutely respect your answer. I still have got a question, it is not my intention to offend you. I only want to learn and understand... You said: a sexual relationship with " someone other than your partner" is wrong. Now what is if my boyfriend is my partner? If you were talking of "life-partner", couldnt my boyfriend be my lifepartner? Moreover, who (except for WAHEGURU JI) can know if my husband and I wont get divorced? Once again, I would like to thank you for your reply.

@SikherofNaam:

1. THANK YOU VERY VERY MUCH ! Your reply really made me think about the whole situation. I appreciate, that you took the time to write that long reply, just for me. Thank you.

2. Especially this sentence "When we get involved in a relationship it is important to ask ourselves why we are doing this and is it for the right reasons?". Now this is my answer to this question:

Well I live in Germany, it is nothing special to have a boyfriend and to have a sexual relationship with him and all that stuff. To me it does not matter, if it is "cool" or not, if I have one. I just wanna have a person who loves and cares for me and for whom I feel a lot of affection. Another reason could be, that my father did not really love me that much, and therefore I try to get this love from another person. So during my whole childhood my father did not hug me or anything else, moreover, I was given slaps a bit to often. However, I would really like to get physical "love" (hugs, kisses, not necessarily sex) from a guy. Dear readers/writers, You might answer: Than pray to WaheguruJi, listen to Nitnem, Sukhmani Sahib, JapiSahib and pray a lot and do Ardas. This feeling will finally vanish then.

But still I feel that you get a lot of physical affection if you' ve got a sexual relationship with your partner (long-time-relation, I am not talking about those ladies who have 10 guys at the same time).

Cause I feel, that we should keep our senses in check. Which means... make sure, that Kam(Lust) isnt more important than praying and meditating on WaheguruJi. What is your opinion?

Last but not least: I apologize, if I make many language mistakes... I am not native speaker :happy:

Thank you very much for your replies,

Take care

Vaaheguroo Jee Kaa Khaalsaa, Vaaheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!

[jassa]

you very well know everything and u to know where u will land and where u want to land in the end ... see sister our present makes our future and future will be our past one day ... dont take any step which might affect ur future ... god created kam there is no doubt it is a need of every person ... i would suggest if u can give 80 minutes to learn more about me please listen to maskeen jis katha in light of guru granth sahib ji ... hope that will help u to decide the way of ur life ... and please dont bound urself with society dont follow anything ur not comfortable with ... just follow ur heart ... nothing is good or bad ... whats good and whats bad is decided by our targets ... where u want to see after 20 - 40 - 60 years after when u will be on the bed of death that should be ur target and go through ur life according to that ...

here is the katha

rest 7 parts can be found in related videos on the right hand side ...

best of luck !!!

by the way where are u from germany ... i know one girl in there u can talk with her on this topic if u want ...

[Shadow]

Sex before marriage is forbidden. Again, it is considered one of the 4 cardinal sins. Sex is only meant for reproduction with your partner i.e. husband. You cannot consider him as your partner since you are not married to him even if hes your boyfriend. If you want to have any sexual relationship with him then you should get married.

The quote I provided is a rehatnama, not a ang (page) from SGGS. Rehatnama are commandments. Here are other rehats:

pr iesqRI isau nyh lgwvY goibMd isMG vh isK n Bwvy ]

par eisathree sio naeh lagaavai gobi(n)dh si(n)gh veh sikh n bhaavae ||

Those Sikhs who fall for a woman other than their own will never receive the blessing of Guru Gobind Singh.

Rehatnama by Bhai Nand Laal Jee

Heres a quote from SGGS ang (page) 403 :

inmK kwm suAwd kwrix koit idns duKu pwvih ]

nimakh kaam suaadh kaaran kott dhinas dhukh paavehi ||

For a moment of sexual pleasure, you shall suffer in pain for millions of days.

[YoungLady]

Vaaheguroo Jee Kaa Khaalsaa, Vaaheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!

Firstly, I apologize for my double posting. I was unsure if my first post was sent, and then I thought just make sure, that my reply arrives... that' s why that happend. I am sorry. I can delete it, if it causes someone any trouble. :rolleyes:

@_Guest_: Thank you for explaining your opinion. You have pointed out that the Rehat Maryada (Code of Conduct) tells us, that only sex with our spouse is allowed. May I ask who wrote the Rehat Maryada? And if our GuruJi wrote it, did someone "edit" it, I mean change some parts?

@JassaJi: Virji thank you very much for your answer. You just said what I was thinking... because it is exactly what I feel, what will haven wenn I am on the bed of death and could not fulfill for what we (human being) were sent to earth. :sad: Do you know any English Kathas? The problem is, that I can speak a bit Punjabi (can talk to friends and parents, thats it)... it is hard for me to understand the Katha on Youtube.

@Shadow: Few line later Guru Arjan Dev Ji Maharag says:

jaisaa sang biseear sio hai rae thaiso hee eihu par grihu ||2||

But, like the companionship of a poisonous snake, so is the desire for another's spouse. ||2||

So couldnt it be (maybe I misinterpret it, if this is the case, then please correct me) that GuruJi is saying, that we should not commit adultery (which I agree anyway).

And moreover, isn' t it that Guru Arjan Dev Ji is saying here, that we should pray to GOD, meditate on him and keep our Kam in check (no matter if it is our husband our not?).

Looking forward to your replies, :happy:

Vaaheguroo Jee Kaa Khaalsaa, Vaaheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!

[Shadow]

@Shadow: Few line later Guru Arjan Dev Ji Maharag says:

jaisaa sang biseear sio hai rae thaiso hee eihu par grihu ||2||

But, like the companionship of a poisonous snake, so is the desire for another's spouse. ||2||

So couldnt it be (maybe I misinterpret it, if this is the case, then please correct me) that GuruJi is saying, that we should not commit adultery (which I agree anyway).

And moreover, isn' t it that Guru Arjan Dev Ji is saying here, that we should pray to GOD, meditate on him and keep our Kam in check (no matter if it is our husband our not?).

Firstly, hes not your spouse anyway. If we are not married and we have a relationship with someone, thats regarded as adultery because we are brides of Vaheguru, which Gurbani states. Marriage is like getting God's acceptance that we are married and that we can have a physical relationship without it being a sin. Once we are married it is again regarded as adultery if we have a relationship with someone who is not our husband.

Penji, I advise you to not do anything immoral with him. Wait till you are married- you will be very thankful if you wait till your marriage to have any sexual relationship. You're on the wrong path right now. Even to have a boyfriend is anti-gurmat and now you're stuck in the situation whether you should have a sexual relationship with him. This would not happen if you did not have a boyfriend. These boyfriends and girlfriends all started in Kalyug. Previous yugs where there was less maya and distractions only had marriages. There was not any type of relationship before marriage even if there was no sex involved. Please see this rehatnama again:

ibnw AnMd ibvwh qy Bugqy pr kI joie ] sux isKw gur kih Q~ky myrw isK n soie ]25]

binaa ana(n)dh bivaah thae bhugathae par kee joe || sun sikhaa gur kehi thhaakae maeraa sikh n soe ||25||

Without having Anand Karaj those who have sexual relationships. Listen O' Sikh the Guru states, he is not my Sikh.

Rehatnama Mukhthnama

Also read this article: http://abhiyaas.blogspot.com/2005/11/bfgf-relationships.html

If you want to know how we should be as sikhs read the lives of those true saints like baba harnaam singh, bhai sahib randhir singh, shaheed bhai fauja singh, etc and you will see how great their love for Guru Sahib is that no human could be replaced before Guru Sahib. They cared less to please any of this 5 vices e.g. kaam. If you need any internet links to read about their lives, just ask.

Its seems like you haven't taken amrit because one of the orders from the panj pyare is to not have any physical relationship before Marriage. Once we take amrit, then we are his sikh. But before you take amrit, you need to realise your reason to. You will need to prepare yourself before-hand. Just as you love your boyfriend you need to fall in love with Gurbani the same way and then when you take amrit, the panj will give you naam.

Gurfateh